Rundlad or Semin?
- BetweenTheDots

Ugghhh

Not a fan if Semin but $1.1 mil not much of a risk at all.
- BetweenTheDots

That's where a guy with elite skill ends up after disappointing teams for years.

Anyone have a list of the UFA defensemen for next season? I'm just wondering if the class will be strong or not.
Although I do not want to trade Seabs, wondering what his trade value would be at the TDL this season. Any smart GM will at least window shop.

Anyone have a list of the UFA defensemen for next season? I'm just wondering if the class will be strong or not.
Although I do not want to trade Seabs, wondering what his trade value would be at the TDL this season. Any smart GM will at least window shop.
- powerenforcer

We know who will be at the top of the list and the Hawks won't move Seabrook at the deadline unless they aren't going to make the playoffs.

That's where a guy with elite skill ends up after disappointing teams for years.
- Al

Absolutely, but the nice thing for them is if he stinks it up they can waive him and would count minimally against the cap.

And I will go back to what Mexico posted yesterday: ALL ELSE BEING EQUAL (coaching, team defense, quality of opposition), there is not THAT much difference between MOST goalies in the NHL. A few are amazing athletes, every once in a while, one comes along who is lights out competitive, more and more these days are giants with oversized pads and can simply block most shots.

Most Hawk fans only remember the melting down Cristobal Huet of 2010. But I saw him play a great deal in 2003, 2004, 2005 in Montreal and he looked every bit the part of a solid to very good NHL goaltender—much like Crawford, very good GAA, pretty good save %, steady—because he was very well coached by Rollie Melanson. Point being, most of these guys have ups and downs, and a lot of these guys, if you put them in position to succeed, will.

Crawford has now proven himself to be a money goalie—for the most part. Definitely a quality NHL net minder, and pretty much all scouts agree on that. Elite? I don't know. How quickly people forget the Nashville series where he looked like he was in another building. First reasonable chance Q got, yeah, he put him back in, but Crawford didn't really look right until the Minnesota series. And Darling was damn good for 2+ games in the Nashville series. If he wasn't, we'd probably be talking about Tampa or Anaheim as the Cup Champs—pretty much fact.

Finally, my point is this, there is not THAT great a difference between Crawford and the elite goalies, nor between Crawford and the average goalies. If you got a fair amount of NHL goalies in the Hawk net, coached up by Waite, with Hjalmarsson, Keith, Seabrook, Kruger and Toews in front of them, they'd probably be very, very good.

Just my .02
- John Jaeckel

Agreed, in today's game there isn't much difference in the top 10 maybe 15 goalies, in the REGULAR season. But IMO there is a bigger difference between a goalie who has won a cup and one who hasn't.

Crow loses his game in the NSH series. It's like a golf swing, playing goal. Once you lose it, and it's usually in your head along with minor physical adjustments, it's a female dog to get back. But a pro, an elite pro, can lose it on Monday and have it back on Wednesday. Crawford has shown that ability (in the PLAYOFFS), which is why for the first time I am saying he's now elite.

I mean have we seen a damn good, for a few years elite, Louongo melt down in the playoffs? have we seen his emotional state on that stage cause him to cry? Have we seen an elite goalie in Rinne suck in the playoffs? Have we seen a kid on an epic run in Ottawa's Hammond get blown up in the playoffs..........

Yea there's little difference between top goalies but that difference often means winning a cup or not.

Huet lost it, and I thought for good, EARLY. And I vehemently posted so on this site. He lost it, it's gone, he won't find it, he's killing the team. It's body language, it's stabbing at pucks, it's going down once the puck crosses your blueline, it's rebounds flying off your body no matter where it hits, it's losing your crease, it's freezing any puck you can, it's fear of playing the puck, it's indecision on every chance all at the SAME time. Once you live that feeling you spot it a mile away, at any level. .....The bottom line is anyone who thought Huet was going through a bad stretch and was gonna be ok was dead wrong.

And yes, I agree he looked good in a Canadiens jersey but lost it here with a team on the cusp of winning a cup. Stopping, or not, pucks you can't see plays with your mind and kills some goalies.

Crawford can be replaced, I agree, but it ain't as easy as is made out to be. I think any NHL mind knows the value of this guy and I want to see the Hawks get full value for him is my argument. You are replacing the most important position in sport, not one of 3 centers, wingers or Dmen.

Absolutely, but the nice thing for them is if he stinks it up they can waive him and would count minimally against the cap.
- BetweenTheDots

Yes...Last stop for him before overseas.

Agreed, in today's game there isn't much difference in the top 10 maybe 15 goalies, in the REGULAR season. But IMO there is a bigger difference between a goalie who has won a cup and one who hasn't.

Crow loses his game in the NSH series. It's like a golf swing, playing goal. Once you lose it, and it's usually in your head along with minor physical adjustments, it's a female dog to get back. But a pro, an elite pro, can lose it on Monday and have it back on Wednesday. Crawford has shown that ability (in the PLAYOFFS), which is why for the first time I am saying he's now elite.

I mean have we seen a damn good, for a few years elite, Louongo melt down in the playoffs? have we seen his emotional state on that stage cause him to cry? Have we seen an elite goalie in Rinne suck in the playoffs? Have we seen a kid on an epic run in Ottawa's Hammond get blown up in the playoffs..........

Yea there's little difference between top goalies but that difference often means winning a cup or not.

Huet lost it, and I thought for good, EARLY. And I vehemently posted so on this site. He lost it, it's gone, he won't find it, he's killing the team. It's body language, it's stabbing at pucks, it's going down once the puck crosses your blueline, it's rebounds flying off your body no matter where it hits, it's losing your crease, it's freezing any puck you can, it's fear of playing the puck, it's indecision on every chance all at the SAME time. Once you live that feeling you spot it a mile away, at any level. .....The bottom line is anyone who thought Huet was going through a bad stretch and was gonna be ok was dead wrong.

And yes, I agree he looked good in a Canadiens jersey but lost it here with a team on the cusp of winning a cup. Stopping, or not, pucks you can't see plays with your mind and kills some goalies.

Crawford can be replaced, I agree, but it ain't as easy as is made out to be. I think any NHL mind knows the value of this guy and I want to see the Hawks get full value for him is my argument. You are replacing the most important position in sport, not one of 3 centers, wingers or Dmen.
- Mr Ricochet

King Henry had some sour moments this year as well..

Queen Henry had some sour moments this year as well..
- Al

*fixed*

We know who will be at the top of the list and the Hawks won't move Seabrook at the deadline unless they aren't going to make the playoffs.
- Al

I agree, unless Seabrook wants to leave he's not going anywhere. I've also thought about this Crawford thing and its two fold, you get cost certainty with him and we had to go through the growing pains of his success and he's an accomplished goalie now, if you trade him now and let's say Darling is lights out the next two years we are right back where we started and on top of it he's an UFA not RFA, so if you think Darling is your future you keep CC this year let Darling play a bunch of games, next year sign Darling to a 3 or 4 year deal then trade CC. For now we do what we can to keep Corey.

I agree, unless Seabrook wants to leave he's not going anywhere. I've also thought about this Crawford thing and its two fold, you get cost certainty with him and we had to go through the growing pains of his success and he's an accomplished goalie now, if you trade him now and let's say Darling is lights out the next two years we are right back where we started and on top of it he's an UFA not RFA, so if you think Darling is your future you keep CC this year let Darling play a bunch of games, next year sign Darling to a 3 or 4 year deal then trade CC. For now we do what we can to keep Corey.
- BetweenTheDots

In the Seabrook situation which is unlikely to happen...Even if the negotiations are going porrly and Bowman feels he is gone after the season they won't trade at the deadline as long as they are a playoff team.

Bad optics for this ownership/management crew is a term never to be used to describe them. No way they will let the press or season ticket holders feel they were slighted by Seabrook going before the last game is played.

In the Seabrook situation which is unlikely to happen...Even if the negotiations are going poorly and Bowman feels he is gone after the season they won't trade at the deadline as long as they are a playoff team.

Bad optics for this ownership/management crew is a term never to be used to describe them. No way they will let the press or season ticket holders feel they were slighted by Seabrook going before the last game is played.
- Al

I agree, unless Seabrook wants to leave he's not going anywhere. I've also thought about this Crawford thing and its two fold, you get cost certainty with him and we had to go through the growing pains of his success and he's an accomplished goalie now, if you trade him now and let's say Darling is lights out the next two years we are right back where we started and on top of it he's an UFA not RFA, so if you think Darling is your future you keep CC this year let Darling play a bunch of games, next year sign Darling to a 3 or 4 year deal then trade CC. For now we do what we can to keep Corey.
- BetweenTheDots

At the cost of Shaw, Kruger, and a FA defenseman to shore up 5/6/7?

It may come to that.

King Henry had some sour moments this year as well..
- Al

Al, you know this is a guy Crawford is reminding me of in style. Couple years back I thought The King was on the downside (I was wrong) cuz of his off balance, choppy ugly way of stopping pucks. ...... This is Crawford's style.

These types can look bad even stopping pucks. Guys like Price/Holtby/even Anderson, superior skaters with a fluid motion and balance, look good as pucks fly past them.

At the cost of Shaw, Kruger, and a FA defenseman to shore up 5/6/7?

It may come to that.
- StLBravesFan

It may, my spidey senses tell me Shaw might not be in a Blackhawk sweater this year just a hunch and that would really stink

So Quennville thinks Kruger is essential to winning a cup, but Crawford not so much, eh? Um, ok... I guess that's why they pay 4th line centres so much more than starting goalies.

Al, you know this is a guy Crawford is reminding me of in style. Couple years back I thought The King was on the downside (I was wrong) cuz of his off balance, choppy ugly way of stopping pucks. ...... This is Crawford's style.

These types can look bad even stopping pucks. Guys like Price/Holtby/even Anderson, superior skaters with a fluid motion and balance, look good as pucks fly past them.
- Mr Ricochet

Yes and also....Crawford doesn't get the highlight reel stops shown on TV like others. He doesn't seem to make the acrobatic saves that get shown over and over again.

When Crawford makes his big stops and the team win by 2/3 goals those great saves are easily forgotten.

I'm not sold on all of the metrics used to today but the amount of shots Crawford faced from the slot area at the top of the circles in was telling. Those are not only areas where scoring come from but also those prime shots often lead to rebound goals. That wasn't the case with Crawford for almost the entire season.

King Henry had some sour moments this year as well..
- Al

The "elite" Rinne was lost the entire hawk series. And now Holtby enters the inner sanctum of the elite.

CC is the top goalie in the league during the past 3 years end of story.

3 WC finals
2 cups
2 jennings
OT record is outstanding: at least 4 high high pressure multiple OT winners
Come back and shut down ability: 3-1 vs wings and win 3 strt, down 1-0 and 2-1 vs bruins and win 3 strt, down 3-1 vs kings and got it to G7 OT, down 2-0 to blues and win 4 strt, down 3-2 to ducks who had not lost in reg the entire playoff and beats them 2x in reg with grt netminding, allows 3 goals in the final 3 vs the bolts and stones stankos at least 8-9 times....
he plays strong, big and focused and is mentally tough as any player in the league...

So Quennville thinks Kruger is essential to winning a cup, but Crawford not so much, eh? Um, ok... I guess that's why they pay 4th line centres so much more than starting goalies.
- mcmasterkev

Kruger is not just some average 4th line center. If you are seriously looking at it through this perspective I don't know what to tell you.

Yes and also....Crawford doesn't get the highlight reel stops shown on TV like others. He doesn't seem to make the acrobatic saves that get shown over and over again.

When Crawford makes his big stops and the team win by 2/3 goals those great saves are easily forgotten.

I'm not sold on all of the metrics used to today but the amount of shots Crawford faced from the slot area at the top of the circles in was telling. Those are not only areas where scoring come from but also those prime shots often lead to rebound goals. That wasn't the case with Crawford for almost the entire season.
- Al

thanks for the reminder...another set of stats that says he is the best net minders in the league...

and the hawks and their great team D was not so great last year and they couldn't score in the 2nd half....crawford earned them a playoff spot....

Did you read or listen to what Nill said about Johns - namely that Johns was the key piece for Dallas in the Sharp trade. Nill is a very good .
- FourOrr

PR guy too.

Just when did you hear a GM say aboutbthe "other pieces" oh, they were throw ins.

remember when the Hawks made the trade and the sedish goalie was thrown in?
That's all this board needed to have him elevated to back up before he ever played a game!
What was his name?

You see my point?

Johns will get a chance down the line to make his own destiny...after HE DOES, then we can start crying this was a terrible deal where all we got was a fast dirty guy who everybody hates and an NHL defenseman.

I was never a detractor of Johns from the start, through his college career and sure, I TOO had him penciled in on the big club., but mostly because I thought they weren't really gonna replace Johnny Oduya...promotion by necessity.

So...if Garbutt is a downer and Daley can't replace Oduya in the slightest, the return on Sharp is "compromised."
But to without ever seeing him in an NHL game I don't care if the evaluator are Jim Nill, Harold Ballard, or Stan Bowman it is a projection.

So if you want to have an negative opinion on a prospects projection, have at it, but don't cool your soup with too mnay tears before we see what he can or can't do.

Devils re-sign Adam Larsson to 6-year, $25M contract.

Yes and also....Crawford doesn't get the highlight reel stops shown on TV like others. He doesn't seem to make the acrobatic saves that get shown over and over again.

When Crawford makes his big stops and the team win by 2/3 goals those great saves are easily forgotten.

I'm not sold on all of the metrics used to today but the amount of shots Crawford faced from the slot area at the top of the circles in was telling. Those are not only areas where scoring come from but also those prime shots often lead to rebound goals. That wasn't the case with Crawford for almost the entire season.
- Al

My major Crawford stat: bHawks were 33-0 when leading after 2.

Not all Crawford, of course, but indicates consistently not allowing late game-changing goals.

Often, it's not how many you give up, but when you give them up: how often would Crawford give up 2 early goals, but shut 'em down the rest of the way, allowing the skaters in front of him to catch up and pull ahead for the win?

So Quennville thinks Kruger is essential to winning a cup, but Crawford not so much, eh? Um, ok... I guess that's why they pay 4th line centres so much more than starting goalies.
- mcmasterkev

Q has never said that regarding Crawford.

My major Crawford stat: bHawks were 33-0 when leading after 2.

Not all Crawford, of course, but indicates consistently not allowing late game-changing goals.

Often, it's not how many you give up, but when you give them up: how often would Crawford give up 2 early goals, but shut 'em down the rest of the way, allowing the skaters in front of him to catch up and pull ahead for the win?
- StLBravesFan

yep and did that get tested...how about G4 vs ducks...they get 3 in 37 to take the lead in the 3rd and craw shuts them down until the kane tieing goal and vermette winner...