I’m no fan of the Pens, in fact most of the time I find their fans to be irritating and overbearing, but in this instance I can confirm that the Pens fans have wanted sutter gone for two years. This isn’t a case of them ripping him now that he’s been traded, they’ve been ripping him for two years. The last guy I saw traded after that kind of fan negativity was Andrew Macdonald, and flyers fans assumed he was far better (because blocked shots!) and now they can't wait to find someone to shovel him off to.

Sutter may have scored 20 goals, but you’re going to hate how he plays.

Edit for clarity – you didn’t give up a ton, but you gave the Pens a little added depth and cap relief, and if sutter is signed to a long term contract it’ll look worse.

I just don’t understand the reasoning behind it. Sutter isn’t an upgrade, you lose a young prospect on d, downgrade on the draft pick and now have to either commit more money to sutter or risk losing him as a ufa? What is benning doing?
- Isles_since_6

Upgrading our centre ice position. Sutter is still an upgrade on Bonino as sad as that is. Clendening will never be a full-time NHL'er and we didn't lose a draft pick... we just moved about 20 spots down.

I personally don't mind the move at all. When Benning overpays him I might have a problem then, but in terms of player for player I would rather have Sutter than Bonino. Bonino is very overrated by Vancouver fans because of his hot start last year. he had 7 goals in his first 14 games, but did pretty much nothing after that! 8 goals in 61 games!!!!

Pulled this from Canucks Army

"Here's the issue with advanced stats, it's too easy to select a few to support a biased view, turns out Brandon Sutter is an advanced stats darling in pitsburgh less than a year ago deemed worthy of a straight up comparison with Ryan Kesler where they concluded they were better off with Sutter than Kesler http://www.pensburgh.com/...ter-is-it-really-worth-it And then in 2012 another advanced stats analysis showed Sutter as the hands down best defensive centre in the league - http://hockeyanalysis.com...nsive-centers-in-the-nhl/ Fact is Bonino might have had some swell advance stats but he didn't fill a specific role that made the team better, Sutter does, he is a right shot above average face off winning two way centre that so perfectly complements Horvat as a Left shot 2 way centre in the 2/3 role, Sutter and Horvat both have an opportunity to grow in support of each other and eat up some of Hanks minutes so he can stay "fresh" that in turn allows the canucks to bring in young wingers like Virtannen and Baertschi and give them a reasonable chance of success. Clendenning and Bones were warm body reasonable value placeholders here as they will be in pitsburgh, Sutter is a role player, a guy who fills a void and as a result makes the whole greater than the sum of the parts. The absence of Clendenning is a clear vote of confidence to Corrado and a roster spot for a young forward to make the team. It's a good move all around no matter what the advance stats say."
- Gullzy

I'm not going to argue about stats or anything, but saying this opens the roster spot for a young forward to make the team...

The only way a roster spot opens for a young forward is if they move a winger like Vrbata, Burrows, Higgins or Hansen.

Unless they want to say the roster spot is Sven's on the second line, but this recent move has no impact where Sven plays.

[quote=VANTEL]
We get a young 20 goal scoring third line centre and we are female doging


I know...it boggles the mind...

We get a young 20 goal scoring third line centre and we are female doging


I know...it boggles the mind...
- LordHumungous

- Nucker101

Who cares if he is soft , he will fit right in.

We have been cream puffs fr years

- Nucker101

What are you laughing at?
You're the head cheerleader of Team Freak Out!

What are you laughing at?
You're the head cheerleader of Team Freak Out!
- Marwood

I know right? 700+ posts nearly 2/3 of them on the Team Fire Benning Wagon.

So much facepalm here.

1) I'm not going to hate the way he plays. I watch Sutter and his work ethic here at the camps in Red Deer every summer and I believe he will bring that ethic to Van. You have to remember Sutter has wanted out of PIT for the past few seasons.

2) The reasoning is after Richardson we need a 3LC badly and Sutter fits the need we want. Can play in the dirty areas and win faceoffs...good skater and shot witha two way game and will stand up for his teammates. Again it's about filling needs as much as it is about the youth coming in and Sutter fills many of those needs for 3LC. Pretty sure 2LC will be Horvat's to lose...and I seriously think he is up to that challenge.
- LordHumungous

personally, I think I'd prefer to go with what I saw in NHL action than in a training camp, but if that's your preference, go wild. The guy is soft, doesn't check well and this is coming from an Isles fan - I dislike the Pens quite a bit.

What are you laughing at?
You're the head cheerleader of Team Freak Out!
- Marwood

Any bets on which team Nucker will be cheering for at the end of next season?

Upgrading our centre ice position. Sutter is still an upgrade on Bonino as sad as that is. Clendening will never be a full-time NHL'er and we didn't lose a draft pick... we just moved about 20 spots down.

I personally don't mind the move at all. When Benning overpays him I might have a problem then, but in terms of player for player I would rather have Sutter than Bonino. Bonino is very overrated by Vancouver fans because of his hot start last year. he had 7 goals in his first 14 games, but did pretty much nothing after that! 8 goals in 61 games!!!!
- Mungo

did you miss where I said 'downgraded a draft pick'?

Any bets on which team Nucker will be cheering for at the end of next season?
- we_are_all_canucks

Don't really care who band-wagon fans cheer for.

Who cares if he is soft , he will fit right in.

We have been cream puffs fr years
- VANTEL

I don't really care because this team isn't going to be good anyway unless the Sedins and our top pairing can carry a bunch of role players to the playoffs again and a couple of other Western teams falter.

But I find the whole "he scored more goals so he's better" thing to be funny.


Bonino has 42 goals in his last 3 seasons, which was 179 games total. That's 19 goals per 82 games.


Sutter has 45 goals in his last 3 seasons, in 209 games total. That's 18 goals(rounding up from 17.5) per 82 games.

Bonino's last 3 seasons averaged out over a 82 game schedule:
19 Goals
27 Assists
46 Points

Sutter's last 3 seasons averaged out over 82 games:
18 Goals
13 Assists
31 Points


And Sutter will be making more money this year and next year. People keep saying "omg who cares how much you spend if you're not contending" yet a big advantage in rebuilding is having good trade pieces and ones who are affordable and easy to trade. Bonino at 1.9M was very affordable and due to the production he provides and the position he plays, he would have been pretty easy to trade to a lot of contenders at the TDL. And once Sutter is extended with a likely raise, it hurts the team's financial flexibility moving forward.

I know Hamhuis/Vrbata are due to come off of the books, but overpaying for 3rd liners, 4th liners and bottom pairing d-men limits the potential to move out those overpaid vets in the future and also means that it'll be harder for Benning to take advantage of cap ceiling teams since he won't have nearly the same cap flexibility as a smarter team that's also rebuilding.

And I'll be laughing if most of the cap space freed up next year gets taken up by the Bonino to Sutter "upgrade" and the rest spent on a 28 year old 20 goal scorer 2nd liner(Lucic) on an expensive long term deal. Which seems like a real possibility.

I don't really care because this team isn't going to be good anyway unless the Sedins and our top pairing can carry a bunch of role players to the playoffs again and a couple of other Western teams falter.

But I find the whole "he scored more goals so he's better" thing to be funny.


Bonino has 42 goals in his last 3 seasons, which was 179 games total. That's 19 goals per 82 games.


Sutter has 45 goals in his last 3 seasons, in 209 games total. That's 18 goals(rounding up from 17.5) per 82 games.

Bonino's last 3 seasons averaged out over a 82 game schedule:
19 Goals
27 Assists
46 Points

Sutter's last 3 seasons averaged out over 82 games:
18 Goals
13 Assists
31 Points


And Sutter will be making more money this year and next year. People keep saying "omg who cares how much you spend if you're not contending" yet a big advantage in rebuilding is having good trade pieces and ones who are affordable and easy to trade. Bonino at 1.9M was very affordable and due to the production he provides and the position he plays, he would have been pretty easy to trade to a lot of contenders at the TDL. And once Sutter is extended with a likely raise, it hurts the team's financial flexibility moving forward.

I know Hamhuis/Vrbata are due to come off of the books, but overpaying for 3rd liners, 4th liners and bottom pairing d-men limits the potential to move out those overpaid vets in the future and also means that it'll be harder for Benning to take advantage of cap ceiling teams since he won't have nearly the same cap flexibility as a smarter team that's also rebuilding.

And I'll be laughing if most of the cap space freed up next year gets taken up by the Bonino to Sutter "upgrade" and the rest spent on a 28 year old 20 goal scorer 2nd liner(Lucic) on an expensive long term deal. Which seems like a real possibility.
- Nucker101

We need to Sign Sbisa long term.

What are you laughing at?
You're the head cheerleader of Team Freak Out!
- Marwood

I am, I won't deny it. But I'd like to hear a good argument on why this move helps this franchise now or in the future. Or should we chalk it up as another "yeah he overpaid again but it's not that bad"?




All of these overpayments start to add up and will come back to haunt this team more than people want to believe.

I don't really care because this team isn't going to be good anyway unless the Sedins and our top pairing can carry a bunch of role players to the playoffs again and a couple of other Western teams falter.

But I find the whole "he scored more goals so he's better" thing to be funny.


Bonino has 42 goals in his last 3 seasons, which was 179 games total. That's 19 goals per 82 games.


Sutter has 45 goals in his last 3 seasons, in 209 games total. That's 18 goals(rounding up from 17.5) per 82 games.

Bonino's last 3 seasons averaged out over a 82 game schedule:
19 Goals
27 Assists
46 Points

Sutter's last 3 seasons averaged out over 82 games:
18 Goals
13 Assists
31 Points


And Sutter will be making more money this year and next year. People keep saying "omg who cares how much you spend if you're not contending" yet a big advantage in rebuilding is having good trade pieces and ones who are affordable and easy to trade. Bonino at 1.9M was very affordable and due to the production he provides and the position he plays, he would have been pretty easy to trade to a lot of contenders at the TDL. And once Sutter is extended with a likely raise, it hurts the team's financial flexibility moving forward.

I know Hamhuis/Vrbata are due to come off of the books, but overpaying for 3rd liners, 4th liners and bottom pairing d-men limits the potential to move out those overpaid vets in the future and also means that it'll be harder for Benning to take advantage of cap ceiling teams since he won't have nearly the same cap flexibility as a smarter team that's also rebuilding.

And I'll be laughing if most of the cap space freed up next year gets taken up by the Bonino to Sutter "upgrade" and the rest spent on a 28 year old 20 goal scorer 2nd liner(Lucic) on an expensive long term deal. Which seems like a real possibility.
- Nucker101

you base player evaluation way too much on offensive production. Hockey's a two way game and I would rather have Sutter over Binono in that regard. The offense between the two is a wash IMO

I am, I won't deny it. But I'd like to hear a good argument on why this move helps this franchise now or in the future. Or should we chalk it up as another "yeah he overpaid again but it's not that bad"?

- Nucker101

Leadership and work ethic are quite valuable when mentoring young players. It also gives us a defined defensive C that can score a bit.

However, I still think we overpaid.

I don't really care because this team isn't going to be good anyway unless the Sedins and our top pairing can carry a bunch of role players to the playoffs again and a couple of other Western teams falter.

But I find the whole "he scored more goals so he's better" thing to be funny.


Bonino has 42 goals in his last 3 seasons, which was 179 games total. That's 19 goals per 82 games.


Sutter has 45 goals in his last 3 seasons, in 209 games total. That's 18 goals(rounding up from 17.5) per 82 games.

Bonino's last 3 seasons averaged out over a 82 game schedule:
19 Goals
27 Assists
46 Points

Sutter's last 3 seasons averaged out over 82 games:
18 Goals
13 Assists
31 Points


And Sutter will be making more money this year and next year. People keep saying "omg who cares how much you spend if you're not contending" yet a big advantage in rebuilding is having good trade pieces and ones who are affordable and easy to trade. Bonino at 1.9M was very affordable and due to the production he provides and the position he plays, he would have been pretty easy to trade to a lot of contenders at the TDL. And once Sutter is extended with a likely raise, it hurts the team's financial flexibility moving forward.

I know Hamhuis/Vrbata are due to come off of the books, but overpaying for 3rd liners, 4th liners and bottom pairing d-men limits the potential to move out those overpaid vets in the future and also means that it'll be harder for Benning to take advantage of cap ceiling teams since he won't have nearly the same cap flexibility as a smarter team that's also rebuilding.

And I'll be laughing if most of the cap space freed up next year gets taken up by the Bonino to Sutter "upgrade" and the rest spent on a 28 year old 20 goal scorer 2nd liner(Lucic) on an expensive long term deal. Which seems like a real possibility.
- Nucker101

It sure looks like you don't care

you base player evaluation way too much on offensive production. Hockey's a two way game and I would rather have Sutter over Binono in that regard. The offense between the two is a wash IMO
- Mungo

What proof is there that Sutter is better defensively?

What are you laughing at?
You're the head cheerleader of Team Freak Out!
- Marwood

I'm sure we are going to hear how the players are overpaying for Gatorade soon enough...

What proof is there that Sutter is better defensively?
- Nucker101

I know you like stats.... so better faceoff stats.... better plus minus. 4 short handed goals.

He's also got the better physical tools to be a more effective defender. Better skater and at 6'3" he's got a long reach which is always an advantage defensively.

Leadership and work ethic are quite valuable when mentoring young players. It also gives us a defined defensive C that can score a bit.

However, I still think we overpaid.
- golfingsince

So we're going to keep giving up younger assets to acquire veteran leaders? Seems kind of counter-productive. And what does it say about the current core, are the Sedins, Hamhuis, Dorsett, Prust, Higgins and Burrows not good enough?

Prust was brought in to be a mentor, yet technically he's holding a roster spot that could go to a young player.

And people keep talking about protecting our youth but Horvat is one of the biggest/strongest guys on the team and had no issues last year. I don't remember Vey ever getting knocked out badly, he fell down a lot like Raymond but adding Prust isn't going to make him the third Sedin along the boards. Corrado may not even play every game. Virtanen is already well over 200 lbs like Horvat and actually enjoys the agitating/physical side of the game, he might not even last more than 9 games. Grenier and Gaunce are both big guys that can handle themselves.

Who exactly are we protecting? We sadly don't have a super talented midget like Gaudreau, Patrick Kane or a Tyler Johnson.

I know you like stats.... so better faceoff stats.... better plus minus. 4 short handed goals.

He's also got the better physical tools to be a more effective defender. Better skater and at 6'3" he's got a long reach which is always an advantage defensively.
- Mungo

That's because stats are actually evidence, it's easy to make any decent player sound great with a scouting report.

Sutter's career FO% is 48.2 and Bonino's is 47.1%..so yay we'll win one more faceoff, maybe two per every 100 Sutter takes instead!


Luca Sbisa is a better skater and had a longer reach than both Tanev and Hamhuis so I'm not buying that. I'd like some actual evidence.

I don't really care because this team isn't going to be good anyway unless the Sedins and our top pairing can carry a bunch of role players to the playoffs again and a couple of other Western teams falter.

But I find the whole "he scored more goals so he's better" thing to be funny.


Bonino has 42 goals in his last 3 seasons, which was 179 games total. That's 19 goals per 82 games.


Sutter has 45 goals in his last 3 seasons, in 209 games total. That's 18 goals(rounding up from 17.5) per 82 games.

Bonino's last 3 seasons averaged out over a 82 game schedule:
19 Goals
27 Assists
46 Points

Sutter's last 3 seasons averaged out over 82 games:
18 Goals
13 Assists
31 Points


And Sutter will be making more money this year and next year. People keep saying "omg who cares how much you spend if you're not contending" yet a big advantage in rebuilding is having good trade pieces and ones who are affordable and easy to trade. Bonino at 1.9M was very affordable and due to the production he provides and the position he plays, he would have been pretty easy to trade to a lot of contenders at the TDL. And once Sutter is extended with a likely raise, it hurts the team's financial flexibility moving forward.

I know Hamhuis/Vrbata are due to come off of the books, but overpaying for 3rd liners, 4th liners and bottom pairing d-men limits the potential to move out those overpaid vets in the future and also means that it'll be harder for Benning to take advantage of cap ceiling teams since he won't have nearly the same cap flexibility as a smarter team that's also rebuilding.

And I'll be laughing if most of the cap space freed up next year gets taken up by the Bonino to Sutter "upgrade" and the rest spent on a 28 year old 20 goal scorer 2nd liner(Lucic) on an expensive long term deal. Which seems like a real possibility.
- Nucker101

You are right next year will be mainly a write off., probably even the next two to Three years.

The thing I like about this trade is Bo is ready to be promoted. He should be the second line centre.

Bonino is horrible at face offs and we don't have a reliable RHC for defensive zone RH face offs. Our options before were Bo and Bones. At least now we will have a decent RHC and decent LHC.

The part about being cheaper I don't care. If this is the lineup that is set for the year then I don't care if I come in under the cap by 10 cents or 10 million. It is not my money. If this is not your roster for this year then cap is important.

That's because stats are actually evidence, it's easy to make any decent player sound great with a scouting report.

Sutter's career FO% is 48.2 and Bonino's is 47.1%..so yay we'll win one more faceoff, maybe two per every 100 Sutter takes instead!


Luca Sbisa is a better skater and had a longer reach than both Tanev and Hamhuis so I'm not buying that. I'd like some actual evidence.
- Nucker101

Players typically improve in FOW% as they gain experience. Sutter has been trending up.... Bonino has been trending down.

You are right next year will be mainly a write off., probably even the next two to Three years.

The thing I like about this trade is Bo is ready to be promoted. He should be the second line centre.

Bonino is horrible at face offs and we don't have a reliable RHC for defensive zone RH face offs. Our options before were Bo and Bones. At least now we will have a decent RHC and decent LHC.

The part about being cheaper I don't care. If this is the lineup that is set for the year then I don't care if I come in under the cap by 10 cents or 10 million. It is not my money. If this is not your roster for this year then cap is important.
- VANTEL

When will the cap start to matter again? It's difficult to get back towards trending upwards if you have a bunch of bad contracts, that's what got us into this rebuild in the first place. Sbisa and Miller may as well have full NTC's, because no sane GM is touching them. Good luck moving Sutter if he gets anything more than 4.5M, that's 2nd line money for a 3rd liner. AKA the same reason why no teams are calling the Canucks to try and get Burrows to waive his NTC and acquire him.