Been spending time in Leafs thread
- pker2theend

They have a more competent management. The tables have turned.

I may have flagged you sorry big fingers
- VANTEL

It's cool, I'm sure Marwood has already flagged all of my posts.

They are not a wash. Bonino is a better second line forward. Sutter is a better third line forward. Bo got promoted. The job audition is for third line
- VANTEL

Yeah so why did they trade down? And give up a player who is probably worth a low 3rd/4th round pick? Benning seems to sweeten every pot just to make a deal. Or take less just to make the deal.

He brings a different element my problem is Bonino and sutter are a wash. Even if they value sutter more, you've added in Clendening and then you've traded down. I don't believe that sutter is worth that much more then bonino. You then add 1.4 million and he's a FA at the end of the year.

My thought is every trade Benning is making, I don't hear or read anywhere tweet or comment from any sports anaylist that this is a "good deal"
- manvanfan

I agree with the assessment of the deal. I think their value should be more even outright. Bonino's cap hit is great for his production. If the picks weren't in the deal, it would be more palatable.

But it is what it is. JB thinks Sutter is a corner stone. Others don`t see it... We`ll find out either way.

I don`t care too much about the round the league reaction. Calgary wasn`t expected to make the playoffs last season. We weren`t really either...
We were told we over valued Lack according to the market... what ev right.

just a tangent to the conversation but, if we take contracts and this trade out of it, what do you think about bonino as a player?

i've always thought he was meh. not great, not bad. just a player that seems replaceable. as he's more offensive than defensive, he is best suited for a top 6 role.

if he's to be a 3rd line centre, i think he needs big strong wingers that can crash and bang. at this point, the canucks don't really have that. they have medium size players who can skate and forecheck. therefore, i think bonino wouldn't be an optimal bottom 6 centre for the canucks (doesn't mean he couldn't be on another team with different wingers).
- RealityChecker

I'm not one who likes to build a team with specific things like "my 3LC has to be at least 6'2" and 210+ pounds" in mind. Chicago uses Marcus Kruger as a 3LC, ANA used Andre Cogliano. I think he's a solid 3LC, same with Sutter(although I prefer him on the wing like Bingo suggested). Plays a similar game to Shawn Matthias, has tunnel vision offensively at times so he needs a playmaking winger or needs to be moved to winger himself.

It's cool, I'm sure Marwood has already flagged all of my posts.
- Nucker101

Yeah so why did they trade down? And give up a player who is probably worth a low 3rd/4th round pick? Benning seems to sweeten every pot just to make a deal. Or take less just to make the deal.
- manvanfan

Yup.

I ve watched some of those battles. A few of them ended up in the net.
- VANTEL

He's probably a bit more skilled than Matthias, but not as strong.

Yeah so why did they trade down? And give up a player who is probably worth a low 3rd/4th round pick? Benning seems to sweeten every pot just to make a deal. Or take less just to make the deal.
- manvanfan

Obviously Benning wanted his original 3 Rd back otherwise why would you?

Yeah so why did they trade down? And give up a player who is probably worth a low 3rd/4th round pick? Benning seems to sweeten every pot just to make a deal. Or take less just to make the deal.
- manvanfan

We had Gillis, afraid to make moves towards the end of his tenure and a new GM that sounds a little impatient and just wants to get it done. Maybe JB will settle down a bit once he gets a bit more settled in?

If McCann and JV turn into top 6 players... these little overpayments won't mean much with the elc savings in other areas.

Obviously Benning wanted his original 3 Rd back otherwise why would you?
- VANTEL

From what I've read, the Canucks are getting back whichever 3rd is higher. And again, they're in no position to make an offer sheet this off-season anyway.

We had Gillis, afraid to make a towards the end of his tenure and a new GM that sounds a little impatient and just wants to get it done. Maybe JB will settle down a bit once he gets a bit more settled in?

If McCann and JV turn into top 6 players... these little overpayments won't mean much with the elc savings in other areas.
- hillbillydeluxe

For sure, but that's far from a guarantee. I'd throw Boeser and Baertschi into the same category.

I agree with the assessment of the deal. I think their value should be more even outright. Bonino's cap hit is great for his production. If the picks weren't in the deal, it would be more palatable.

But it is what it is. JB thinks Sutter is a corner stone. Others don`t see it... We`ll find out either way.

I don`t care too much about the round the league reaction. Calgary wasn`t expected to make the playoffs last season. We weren`t really either...
We were told we over valued Lack according to the market... what ev right.
- hillbillydeluxe

Normally if you have a number 2 Center and trade for a number 3 Center you don't have to give up extra to get him, the other team should.

Sure a lot of emotion in here for the end of July. Training camp hasn't started and the first game is still over 2 months away. I think everybody needs to calm the (frank) down and see how this plays out. If this team comes out in October and gets their face kicked in then fine, bring on the pitchforks and torches, but the roster isn't even finalized yet so relax.

We had Gillis, afraid to make moves towards the end of his tenure and a new GM that sounds a little impatient and just wants to get it done. Maybe JB will settle down a bit once he gets a bit more settled in?

If McCann and JV turn into top 6 players... these little overpayments won't mean much with the elc savings in other areas.
- hillbillydeluxe

In the blog it said more time for the young players to develop. How does one year less on a more expensive contract give them more time? That alone should be getting us the higher pick.

From what I've read, the Canucks are getting back whichever 3rd is higher. And again, they're in no position to make an offer sheet this off-season anyway.
- Nucker101

They still need that 3 Rd for an OS next year when they will have money.

General Fanager has it listed as their own third coming back

As a Pens fan, I won't miss Sutter in the least. I think his analytics are very indicative of the quality of player that he is. I wish him well in the future as he seems to be a good guy but I really think this is a terrible move for Vancouver.
- jfkst1

Adding a consistent 20 goal guy isn't a bad move. You are going to be super frustrated watching Bonino skate at the NHL level. The guy has one of the best wristshots in the biz but not mobile at all and is dead afraid of the corners where Sutter is not. You ae going to pull out whatever hair you have left watching Bonino skate...then you can work on Bonino's hair...

Normally if you have a number 2 Center and trade for a number 3 Center you don't have to give up extra to get him, the other team should.
- manvanfan

Bonino was not a # 2 centre. That was a stop gap year last year.

They still need that 3 Rd for an OS next year when they will have money.

General Fanager has it listed as their own third coming back
- VANTEL

2017 picks are needed for 2016 OS's.

Normally if you have a number 2 Center and trade for a number 3 Center you don't have to give up extra to get him, the other team should.
- manvanfan

Yes and No.

If you have a center like Sutter, good at face offs, 2way - defensively responsible and can chip in some offense and hits some and is 6ft3 (this is what JB thinks) and say of all the 3rd line centres, he is ranked in the top 10, compared to Bonino, who might be in the bottom 10 of 2nd line centres...

What else was available I guess contributes to the market. But many teams target certain players more so than a type of player generalization. I think we look at the players in broader categories.

I'm not one who likes to build a team with specific things like "my 3LC has to be at least 6'2" and 210+ pounds" in mind. Chicago uses Marcus Kruger as a 3LC, ANA used Andre Cogliano. I think he's a solid 3LC, same with Sutter(although I prefer him on the wing like Bingo suggested). Plays a similar game to Shawn Matthias, has tunnel vision offensively at times so he needs a playmaking winger or needs to be moved to winger himself.
- Nucker101

i agree with you on not having "molds" for players but i definitely feel that each line should have an identity based around it's role.

i think bonino can definitely work as a 3LC but as i mentioned earlier, it all depends on his wingers. in my opinion, vancouver doesn't have the requisite wingers to help him be an effective 3rd line centre.

as an aside, it just seems that this is typical of benning. i wanted bonino traded since mid season b/c i felt that he was hampering horvat. bonino's offensive ability was hampering bo by taking the better wingers, better ice time etc. by removing bonino, it should mean that horvat gets the 2nd line minutes, wingers. that is my hope at least.

but like i said, this is typical of benning. he does what i want him to do (trade bonino, trade a goalie, tank etc.) but it's the details that pi$$ me off. at the end of the day, it was what i wanted but not exactly the route i would have taken.

Bonino was not a # 2 centre. That was a stop gap year last year.
- VANTEL

So we traded a 3rd Center with a better cap hit for another 3rd Center with a worse cap hit, traded down and gave up a player worth something.

2017 picks are needed for 2016 OS's.
- Nucker101

Ok well Daniel sold his house so we have 7 mil

Ok well Daniel sold his house so we have 7 mil
- VANTEL

I haven't laughed that hard where I had tears streaming down my face from laughing so hard in a very long time until reading their idea of what Sutter is.

He's 6'3" 185-190lbs soaking wet, about as aggressive as a Koala.

Pens fan said this.

So we traded a 3rd Center with a better cap hit for another 3rd Center with a worse cap hit, traded down and gave up a player worth something.
- manvanfan

I will be truthful. Most fans on here that made a projected lineup card had McCann and Cassels ahead of Bonino. We are talking about a guy that didn't have a future with this team after next year. I think Sutter has a better in front of the net game than Bones and hits more.