#62 in points per 60

http://stats.hockeyanalys...p=1&sort=PCT&sortdir=DESC


edit: Adams 326 out of 330
- YouMeAndDupuis9

Really interesting list. (5v5 points/60 min for all NHL fowards with 1000+ minutes over the last 2 seasons)

I studied it a bit. 330 guys on the list. Here's where our current forwards rank:

Malkin -- 7
Crosby -- 8
Horn. -- 37
Kessel -- 53
Bonino -- 62
Perron -- 106
Kunitz -- 113
Fehr -- 136

Two others are a bit short on minutes, but their pts/60 would put them at these ranks:

Dupuis -- 41
Bennett -- 251

Here are some guys the Pens have jettisoned over the last year or so:

Sutter -- 289 (Yikes! Be careful VAN)
Lappy -- 290 (Yikes again for Sutter)
Winnik -- 118
Comeau -- 131
Downie -- 196
Spaling -- 184
Adams -- 326
Goc -- 291
Klink -- 292
Glass -- 322
Arco -- 183
Stemp -- 174

With the exception of Fehr (and Bennett perhaps), every name on the top list is ranked higher than every name on the bottom list. Looks like a clear trend of moving on from guys that can't perform at even strength and bringing in guys who should be able to. Should be a fun season to watch!

Really interesting list. (5v5 points/60 min for all NHL fowards with 1000+ minutes over the last 2 seasons)

I studied it a bit. 330 guys on the list. Here's where our current forwards rank:

Malkin -- 7
Crosby -- 8
Horn. -- 37
Kessel -- 53
Bonino -- 62
Perron -- 106
Kunitz -- 113
Fehr -- 136

Two others are a bit short on minutes, but their pts/60 would put them at these ranks:

Dupuis -- 41
Bennett -- 251

Here are some guys the Pens have jettisoned over the last year or so:

Sutter -- 289 (Yikes! Be careful VAN)
Lappy -- 290 (Yikes again for Sutter)
Winnik -- 118
Comeau -- 131
Downie -- 196
Spaling -- 184
Adams -- 326
Goc -- 291
Klink -- 292
Glass -- 322
Arco -- 183
Stemp -- 174

With the exception of Fehr (and Bennett perhaps), every name on the top list is ranked higher than every name on the bottom list. Looks like a clear trend of moving on from guys that can't perform at even strength and bringing in guys who should be able to. Should be a fun season to watch!
- jjaxxon

Now I'm getting really confused here!!!!

Is it points that now count or advanced stats??

Still want to see Sheary get a look this season. I'm glad we're finally heading in the right direction however. I've been preaching "bigger bodies" for years. Of course they need to be able to play....
- madmike71

It's funny seeing the change because if you look at the Kings reports & blogs they are looking to get faster & lose some of their bulk. That coming from the team that's won Stanley a couple of times recently. Hawks seem to be set on speed, Rags also real effective last season when their speed could play & Habs also. Just appears that with the Caps & Islanders bringing the hit & smash game to the East, the game is changing to the Western game. In saying that, the Hawks, Rags & Habs all have guys that will hit & check very effectively & punch on when needed.

Also, anyone think Plot may be a Kreider type player? Big fast strong & not real good at stopping before hitting the goalie or whatever is in front of him??

Off-the-wall thought. Not looking to simply dump Kunitz by any stretch. What about Kunitz for Ryan Ellis? Preds have an abundance of cap space and solid defenseman...and a need for more scoring forwards. In dream land I would say Kunitz and Scuderi both for Ellis and a late pick.

Then use cap space to add another competent forward via FA.

Again, dont want to get rid of Kunitz but to get a guy like Ellis would really sure up the defense.
- YouMeAndDupuis9

Why would Nashville even want Kunitz? Is he going to replace Neal, Forsberg, Wilson, Smith as a top 6 winger? Is he a better option than giving any one of their forward prospects a shot.

And why would they want to trade Ellis, they have probably the best D in the league, no need to blow that up.

It's funny seeing the change because if you look at the Kings reports & blogs they are looking to get faster & lose some of their bulk. That coming from the team that's won Stanley a couple of times recently. Hawks seem to be set on speed, Rags also real effective last season when their speed could play & Habs also. Just appears that with the Caps & Islanders bringing the hit & smash game to the East, the game is changing to the Western game. In saying that, the Hawks, Rags & Habs all have guys that will hit & check very effectively & punch on when needed.

Also, anyone think Plot may be a Kreider type player? Big fast strong & not real good at stopping before hitting the goalie or whatever is in front of him??
- Aussiepenguin

Krieder is pure speed though. One of the fastest accelerating players I have seen, especially for such a big guy. It's not Mart St.Louis torching you in a short sprint. I dont think Plot is that type. His game has been compared heavily to Nikolai Kulemin in Russian reports.

Really interesting list. (5v5 points/60 min for all NHL fowards with 1000+ minutes over the last 2 seasons)

I studied it a bit. 330 guys on the list. Here's where our current forwards rank:

Malkin -- 7
Crosby -- 8
Horn. -- 37
Kessel -- 53
Bonino -- 62
Perron -- 106
Kunitz -- 113
Fehr -- 136

Two others are a bit short on minutes, but their pts/60 would put them at these ranks:

Dupuis -- 41
Bennett -- 251

Here are some guys the Pens have jettisoned over the last year or so:

Sutter -- 289 (Yikes! Be careful VAN)
Lappy -- 290 (Yikes again for Sutter)
Winnik -- 118
Comeau -- 131
Downie -- 196
Spaling -- 184
Adams -- 326
Goc -- 291
Klink -- 292
Glass -- 322
Arco -- 183
Stemp -- 174

With the exception of Fehr (and Bennett perhaps), every name on the top list is ranked higher than every name on the bottom list. Looks like a clear trend of moving on from guys that can't perform at even strength and bringing in guys who should be able to. Should be a fun season to watch!
- jjaxxon

Even strength points per 60 is a semi fair metric, but not everything. Kessel is a top 10 offensive threat in this league, 53 isn't really a good measure of his prowess. His team and system slowed him.
The other part about EVPP60 is that is really conducive of your role. If you are a really good third liner your EVPP60 could be very high, considering you wont get much power play time, but you might not have the vision or speed to make the jump into the top six. So if given a top six role your EVPP60 could drop like a rock.

What the Pens did though was drop a bunch of Rocks and pick up players who are killing it in the role they have been given. That is something they haven't done in the past few seasons.

At the end of the day the Pens r not better.
Bonino is am ok 2LC but hurts u as 3LC.
Don't see him as a C on top 2 lines.
Fire JR asap
- Nighthawk

For some reason this guy reminds me of a Vancouver version of Palmer

Now I'm getting really confused here!!!!

Is it points that now count or advanced stats??
- Aussiepenguin

Like Corsi is an improvement over +/-, points/60 is an improvement over points per game.... to an extent. It's a very useful metric to figure out exactly how productive a player with limited ice time (bottom six) is by projecting his production over a 60 minute sample size. It becomes less useful when looking at top 6 players who already have a large sample size of ice time. For them you can pretty much gague their production accurately through the standard points per game metric.

Even strength points per 60 is a semi fair metric, but not everything. Kessel is a top 10 offensive threat in this league, 53 isn't really a good measure of his prowess. His team and system slowed him.
The other part about EVPP60 is that is really conducive of your role. If you are a really good third liner your EVPP60 could be very high, considering you wont get much power play time, but you might not have the vision or speed to make the jump into the top six. So if given a top six role your EVPP60 could drop like a rock.

What the Pens did though was drop a bunch of Rocks and pick up players who are killing it in the role they have been given. That is something they haven't done in the past few seasons.
- usethe1-2-2

Precisely. Couldn't have said it better. EVP/60 is best used in conjunction with a usage chart to evaluate how productive a player is and what role he should remain in

For some reason this guy reminds me of a Vancouver version of Palmer
- Pens_Burgh

I miss that guy

I miss that guy
- Victoro311

Same

I would love to hear what he thinks of the trades and what else we need to do now.

kunitz and dumoulin to fla for jagr
crosby, jagr, kessel wow

Same

I would love to hear what he thinks of the trades and what else we need to do now.

kunitz and dumoulin to fla for jagr
crosby, jagr, kessel wow
- Pens_Burgh

Maybe at the deadline if Fla is out, but no way they trade him before the month of February.

Also, Dumo might be more highly regarded internally than we think. His size and skating alone is something that not many D men have. His poise with the puck and heads up play really aren't something you just throw into a trade. Considering how chep he is going to be, I think you utilize that contract and milk it until you have to let him go.

Why would Nashville even want Kunitz? Is he going to replace Neal, Forsberg, Wilson, Smith as a top 6 winger? Is he a better option than giving any one of their forward prospects a shot.

And why would they want to trade Ellis, they have probably the best D in the league, no need to blow that up.
- Peterg

Kunitz, Dupuis are great deadline pieces to be traded for 2nd round picks if we have the depth to compensate for trading them. They are the prototypical "veteran presence" that fetches far beyond their value and I hope JR realizes this.

Same

I would love to hear what he thinks of the trades and what else we need to do now.

kunitz and dumoulin to fla for jagr
crosby, jagr, kessel wow
- Pens_Burgh

To be fair though, the Palmer line of Jagr-OReilly-Ryan would be pretty damn good.
EDIT: WOW

Even strength points per 60 is a semi fair metric, but not everything. Kessel is a top 10 offensive threat in this league, 53 isn't really a good measure of his prowess. His team and system slowed him.
The other part about EVPP60 is that is really conducive of your role. If you are a really good third liner your EVPP60 could be very high, considering you wont get much power play time, but you might not have the vision or speed to make the jump into the top six. So if given a top six role your EVPP60 could drop like a rock.

What the Pens did though was drop a bunch of Rocks and pick up players who are killing it in the role they have been given. That is something they haven't done in the past few seasons.
- usethe1-2-2

I'd say the biggest variable that needs to be accounted for regarding pts/60 is that some players are much better on the PP than at ES (Ovechkin, Neal, Stamkos, etc.).

I question how well Plotnikov and Hornqvist can play together. They both occupy the same space. I'm onboard with the Perron on the third, though. I'm not super low on Perron, but it goes a long way to evening out the talent. In an ideal world where Plotnikov and Bennett prove themselves to be 40 + point scorers and Hornqvist attempts to play the left side (I fully believe his net front game would be succesful on his off wing), these are my ideal lines as far as game meshing goes.

Hornqvist-Crosby-Kessel
Plotnikov-Malkin-Bennett
Perron-Bonino-Dupuis
Kunitz-Sundqvist-Fehr

The first line requires no explanation. Its the perfect line. Those three compliment each other's game fantastically. It would be the best line in hockey.

The second line is extremely intriguing. Bennett's playmaking ability can allow Malkin to fully shift into a finishing role and let him go full sniper. Malkin dangles the puck into the zone where he can either take it himself or give it off to Bennett who'll set him up. Then you've got Plotnikov in front of the net creating havoc while Malkin and Bennett (frank) around. This line could be an offensive dynamo that has its way with an exhausted team that's been focusing all its resources to stopping that lethal first line.

Perron and Bonino make the third line deceptively dangerous when it comes to tertiary scoring. Not a traditional shut down third line, but between Dupuis and Perron's forecheck, they should be able to effectively keep the puck in the offensive zone with Perron and Bonino chipping in the occasional goal. Defense through offense.

The fourth line is your traditional checking line. Sundqvist and Fehr on the same line is going to be a female dog for the other team's top offensive lines to play against. They are going to wear the other team down while still having enough offensive capability to keep the other team on their toes. On the occasion that they do have the puck in the offensive zone, Kunitz and Fehr's forechecks are going to be a female dog for the opposing team to deal with. If Kunitz's hands bounce back, he'll add an offensive punch.


If you can't tell, I'm super excited
- Victoro311

Bonino isn't a shutdown guy...

Even strength points per 60 is a semi fair metric, but not everything. Kessel is a top 10 offensive threat in this league, 53 isn't really a good measure of his prowess. His team and system slowed him.
The other part about EVPP60 is that is really conducive of your role. If you are a really good third liner your EVPP60 could be very high, considering you wont get much power play time, but you might not have the vision or speed to make the jump into the top six. So if given a top six role your EVPP60 could drop like a rock.

What the Pens did though was drop a bunch of Rocks and pick up players who are killing it in the role they have been given. That is something they haven't done in the past few seasons.
- usethe1-2-2

Kessel is going to have a monster year in Pittsburgh. The guy is one of the top 2 or 3 pure goal scorers in the league. He'll be 100 times better away from the blue and white diseased carcass called the Maple Leafs.... Playing with an actual center who has skill and talent on their own will only make Kessel more dangerous. I think Kessel if he stays healthy will get 50-60 goals for you this season. Maybe more.

Maybe at the deadline if Fla is out, but no way they trade him before the month of February.

Also, Dumo might be more highly regarded internally than we think. His size and skating alone is something that not many D men have. His poise with the puck and heads up play really aren't something you just throw into a trade. Considering how chep he is going to be, I think you utilize that contract and milk it until you have to let him go.
- usethe1-2-2

I would never do that trade anyway, it was just something Palmer would say. Almost every trade he would say was Jagr or Kesler

To be fair though, the Palmer line of Jagr-OReilly-Ryan would be pretty damn good.
EDIT: WOW
- Victoro311

That would be pretty good... WOW stanley cup

Bonino isn't a shutdown guy...
- kaptaan

Literally said that wouldn't be a shut down line.

Bonino isn't a shutdown guy...
- kaptaan

Pens don't want him to be (and Victoro said it wouldn't be anyway). If he keeps up his possession and scoring rates, they'll be very happy with him at his cap price.

Kessel is going to have a monster year in Pittsburgh. The guy is one of the top 2 or 3 pure goal scorers in the league. He'll be 100 times better away from the blue and white diseased carcass called the Maple Leafs.... Playing with an actual center who has skill and talent on their own will only make Kessel more dangerous. I think Kessel if he stays healthy will get 50-60 goals for you this season. Maybe more.
- kaptaan

I don't think he'll get as much of a bump as some think. I'll expect ~35 goals and ~80 pts next season for him.

Kessel is going to have a monster year in Pittsburgh. The guy is one of the top 2 or 3 pure goal scorers in the league. He'll be 100 times better away from the blue and white diseased carcass called the Maple Leafs.... Playing with an actual center who has skill and talent on their own will only make Kessel more dangerous. I think Kessel if he stays healthy will get 50-60 goals for you this season. Maybe more.
- kaptaan

50 - 60 is a bit rich but I like that optimism. 40 or above will keep everyone happy.

I don't think he'll get as much of a bump as some think. I'll expect ~35 goals and ~80 pts next season for him.
- jfkst1

I think whichever center Kessel is matched up with will have the biggest boost in goals. If you put Crosby and Kessel together they could easily score 40 a piece. Teams won't be able to cheat on one of them and it will open up a ton of space for them.

Also, an underrated part of Kessels game is finding loose pucks around the net and putting them in. He isnt screening anyone or winning battles, but the puck seems to find his stick and he finishes from everywhere. Him Crosby and Hornquist will be a nightmare to handle.