No need for insults.
- nfph

Was I insulting him or moderators?

We live in a rape culture. Where women are often criticized for coming forward with these types of accusations. This could be something as 'simple' as he was too much of a drunk mess to hear her saying "Stop", or "No".

Either way, that's still date rape and the guy almost always doesn't even think he was at fault or did anything wrong.

And this dude is a drunken mess constantly.

On the other hand, Athletes and other celebrities are often targeted because of money, plain and simple. However, the quick response from the night it allegedly happened to the cops showing up at his door the very next day shows me this might not be a case of "Girl got blown off, gets mad, cries wolf".

What's more, I've worked with and met several people (dudes) who made quite a bit of money compared to their social circles. Chefs, supervisors, managers, all over 60k a year. I can think of one in particular who bragged about date raping women and a couple others who hinted at it as something 'normal'. Point being that the more money a person has, the cockier they are about these things.

Let's face it, this stuff happens constantly and women are often criticized and chastised for even suggesting they may have been 'raped'. Rape isn't always a sexual, physical assault where the woman is forced into the act. And in those cases, the woman can suffer severe wounds/injuries from the forceful act. It doesn't have to be violent.

"I didn't hear her telling me to stop"

"I was too drunk to realize what had happened and by the time I did it was already over"

"She didn't tell me to stop until we were really into it, so I kept going"

"She's my girlfriend"

"She's my wife"

Etc...

I agree people are innocent until proven guilty under the eyes of the law. So are innocent until convicted or they accept a plea & are sentenced to some form of guilt.

My question is this? Slava Voyonov was suspended by the NHL before he was even charged never mind convicted or had plead out his legal situation. I always found this to be very odd & why it was allowed & not contested by the NHLPA until such time as he was convicted is mind boggling.

It is my understanding that everyone has a legal right to earn a living & if under investigation & before the courts until sentenced they are innocent. Why was Voyonov an exception to these basic human rights?
- striker777

"Innocent until proven guilty" is really just a legal thing. People think it applies to all facets of society (the same people who constantly claim "freedom of speech" when it doesn't apply) but it doesn't. Employers can fire you for a lot of reasons.

i think its in the CBA which all players agreed to
- bobbyisno1

Voynov was also suspended with pay which is a big difference.

Was I insulting him or moderators?
- golfingsince

- nfph

WTF?

I understand what you are doing here. And to some extent, I respect it. However, allegations of this sort are the wrong time to do so. Stand up for Mike Richards and his job-related drug problems, please. Please don't play the "innocent until proven guilty" card, it's a farce. Finally, allegations like this should always be taken with the utmost seriousness. Yeah, it's nice to trot out the UVA thing. However, most sexual assaults go unreported, and most that are reported are either not taken seriously OR not prosecuted for one reason or another. Sexual assault is not a new problem - it's not only a problem for athletes either - it is part of the basic and underlying oppression of women in our society. An oppression that is made possible by centuries of the cards being stacked against them.

Like I said, I get what you are trying to do here, but choose your moments to stand up for the athlete more carefully.
- ritns028

I just hope this doesn't turn out to be like the Roethlisberger thing where the woman did it just for the money and went away as soon as she got her money. True he could've been guilty and they made her sign an NDA, but she still took the money and that never looks good.

It just sets women back that much further; although I'm not sure that's entirely possible.

Exactly. It has to go both ways. If Kane is guilty, send him to prison and throw away the key. He deserves it. But it has to be acknowledged that someone can be targeted for false accusations as well and there need to be consequences to prevent that.
- jfkst1

This risks a very dangerous precedent. Don't forget, just because its not always possible based on evidence to convict someone in a court of law beyond a reasonable doubt doesn't mean we ever find out what actually happened in many of these cases. I'm quite certain that in many of these cases get that get thrown out, the guy is most likely in the wrong, but just not to the standard of the law. Its hard enough for women to actually want to accuse someone and deal with all the crap that goes along with that...they can't also be worried that a not guilty verdict will then blow up in their face in the form of prosecution for a false accusation.

WTF?
- stormey

I just liked leaving it open-ended.

I just hope this doesn't turn out to be like the Roethlisberger thing where the woman did it just for the money and went away as soon as she got her money. True he could've been guilty and they made her sign an NDA, but she still took the money and that never looks good.

It just sets women back that much further; although I'm not sure that's entirely possible.
- Wetbandit1

i dunno, i seen name calling and also not keeping to the subject of hockey
- bobbyisno1

Which are normal rules according to HockeyBuzz Code of Conduct. Again, the post said THIS thread was being watched closely and warned us to "tread lightly" which suggests something beyond normal code rules

I don't think they terminated Voynov's contract though.

If as the question asked Kane was going to prison for 3-5 years, the Hawks would undoubtedly void his contract (like the Kings are trying to do with Richards).
- stormey

That's a good point about Voynov.

And yes, it's the same as the Richards situation, where only his unamortized signing bonus hit the cap. So it looks like they'd avoid the cap hit except for Kane's pro-rated signing bonus for the remaining years.

Wow all the old EE's thread hanging out in the main today ?

It wouldn't be excessive.
- jfkst1

So let me get this straight.

You are arguing that the victim of a sexual assault should be imprisoned to the fullest extent of the law because they may have had an ulterior motive to make the claim? All of this after a potential trial where the victim's whole sexual history is explored by legal professionals and questioned on a witness stand in front of a jury of their peers and the media.

Therefore causing an absolute log jam in the legal system all over the country, and force prosecutors to file charges they don't want to. Additionally, causing victims to not report out of fear of potential punishment.

This risks a very dangerous precedent. Don't forget, just because its not always possible based on evidence to convict someone in a court of law beyond a reasonable doubt doesn't mean we ever find out what actually happened in many of these cases. I'm quite certain that in many of these cases get that get thrown out, the guy is most likely in the wrong, but just not to the standard of the law. Its hard enough for women to actually want to accuse someone and deal with all the crap that goes along with that...they can't also be worried that a not guilty verdict will then blow up in their face in the form of prosecution for a false accusation.
- Emperor Filonius

If there is enough evidence that they are guilty of perjury, then I hope it does blow up in their faces. Civil court convictions and out of court settlements are also not uncommon and the culpability degree in civil cases isn't the same either. It can't be a one-way street where there are zero consequences for making false accusations. Otherwise there is nothing preventing false accusations.

This risks a very dangerous precedent. Don't forget, just because its not always possible based on evidence to convict someone in a court of law beyond a reasonable doubt doesn't mean we ever find out what actually happened in many of these cases. I'm quite certain that in many of these cases get that get thrown out, the guy is most likely in the wrong, but just not to the standard of the law. Its hard enough for women to actually want to accuse someone and deal with all the crap that goes along with that...they can't also be worried that a not guilty verdict will then blow up in their face in the form of prosecution for a false accusation.
- Emperor Filonius

Lets all remember who this is.....Patrick Kane, you're trying to tell me some random girl got raped by a multi millionaire who can get almost any girl with his status. My guess this girl is looking for a pay day like every other girl who has made this claim about a professional athlete.
- CraigB1989

Wow.

So in your logic, guys of his status who are used to never being told "no" would never just decide to go ahead and take what they want? Especially because athletes and celebreties who rape women know that many people will make the same idiotic generalization that you just made?

- DynamicThreads

Why the head shake? Did it not go down like that? I'm simply saying that the NHL can ill-afford that type of uncertainty in this case and that taking the money and running looks awfully bad.

You read the code, what else would I have to say?
- nfph

So this thread is any different than normal threads? I get the subject can be touchy but your warning seemed to suggest something beyond the normal code rules thus the question.

So this thread is any different than normal threads? I get the subject can be touchy but your warning seemed to suggest something beyond the normal code rules thus the question.
- uf1910

There are discussions that go where they may. Mods aren't always looking actively at every thread. This one is being looked at.

Everything else you're sort of reading more than I'm saying.

Why the head shake? Did it not go down like that?
- Wetbandit1

Since I moved back to Buffalo (region/Lockport) last summer, the place where I was born and happy, if not proud, to be from, I've become increasingly embarrassed by how ignorant, racist, sexist, conservative and regressive it has become, or, its people. Truly, sadly, embarrassed.

I am disgusted by it, actually. It is a little slice of the South up North and for a region that was once at the forefront of civil rights, equality and a proud working class hub, I'm embarrassed at all the right wing, religious, racist bullocks and absolutely vanished work ethic and rampant nepotism.

As far as answering your question and acknowledging your edit, I just hope your judgement of character is better than it came across.

If only...
- Wetbandit1

In the States if a woman and any woman accuses a guy of rape they are automatically brought in and questioned. Since he is a celebrity it'll be harder for them to bring charges but the average Joe would be charged and a jury of his peers would get to figure it out.

Since I moved back to Buffalo (region/Lockport) last summer, the place where I was born and happy, if not proud, to be from, I've become increasingly embarrassed by how ignorant, racist, sexist, conservative and regressive it has become, or, its people. Truly, sadly, embarrassed.

I am disgusted by it, actually. It is a little slice of the South up North and for a region that was once at the forefront of civil rights, equality and a proud working class hub, I'm embarrassed at all the right wing, religious, racist bullocks and absolutely vanished work ethic and rampant nepotism.
- DynamicThreads

Stormey's soap box is a couple of pages back.

Why didn't you answer his question instead?

If there is enough evidence that they are guilty of perjury, then I hope it does blow up in their faces. Civil court convictions and out of court settlements are also not uncommon and the culpability degree in civil cases isn't the same either. It can't be a one-way street where there are zero consequences for making false accusations. Otherwise there is nothing preventing false accusations.
- jfkst1

As you noted, there are already penalties for perjuring yourself. What you seem to be suggesting is something else entirely.

The cases where fabrications and falsehoods are occurring based on some sort of shakedown normally get sniffed out, especially when someone famous is involved. I'd be willing to bet that the proportion of women who get date raped and either are too afraid to even make an accusation or who have their accusation swept under the rug is MUCH MUCH higher. Have you also ever considered that maybe many of the women who end up accepting some sort of monetary settlement/payoff to "go away" actually were true victims who realized that taking the money would be preferable to having themselves be tried in the court of public opinion far more than the celebrity, be called a "slut" etc, and lose whatever privacy and dignity they might have?