Stormey's soap box is a couple of pages back.

Why didn't you answer his question instead?
- golfingsince

See: Edit.

Also.

Toronto is no better.

So there's that.

Either way, we are living in a hyper-conservative era and I cannot get over it. It is simply mind blowing.

There are discussions that go where they may. Mods aren't always looking actively at every thread. This one is being looked at.

Everything else you're sort of reading more than I'm saying.
- nfph

Some people see conspiracy everywhere. Ask him if the Apollo landings were faked.

Since I moved back to Buffalo (region/Lockport) last summer, the place where I was born and happy, if not proud, to be from, I've become increasingly embarrassed by how ignorant, racist, sexist, conservative and regressive it has become, or, its people. Truly, sadly, embarrassed.

I am disgusted by it, actually. It is a little slice of the South up North and for a region that was once at the forefront of civil rights, equality and a proud working class hub, I'm embarrassed at all the right wing, religious, racist bullocks and absolutely vanished work ethic and rampant nepotism.
- DynamicThreads

You didn't answer the question.

And I wholeheartedly agree with you on the first paragraph especially once you get outside Buffalo proper and the more populated suburbs, but if you think this was ever a bastion of civil rights I direct you no farther than North Tonawanda, which used to be a "Sundowner" town. Which if you don't know what that means it means that blacks were not allowed in the city after dark. It's always been this way; just for some mind-boggling reason it's become more accepted.

And no where did I say that Roethlisballs wasn't guilty, just that it looked bad that she took the money and ran. I think it's despicable the way women are treated in this "progressive" society. I have a friend who was raped and she was laughed out of the police station and even her own mother told her she was asking for it. I almost threw up when she told me that.

See: Edit.

Also.

Toronto is no better.

So there's that.

Either way, we are living in a hyper-conservative era and I cannot get over it. It is simply mind blowing.


- DynamicThreads

I don't live in Toronto nor am I conservative or surround myself with conservative people. Life is what you make of it.

There are discussions that go where they may. Mods aren't always looking actively at every thread. This one is being looked at.

Everything else you're sort of reading more than I'm saying.
- nfph

Not sure how reading "tread lightly" as a vague warning is anything more than just that but ok. The subject being discussed doesn't determine whether any particular post is offensive etc and thus subject to code of conduct, as any post at any time in any thread can be offensive. Treading lightly suggests that given the subject posts will be subject to a more rigorous definition of offensive thus why I asked what you were watching for. Either way I was just curious what you were watching for. Have a nice day

As you noted, there are already penalties for perjuring yourself. What you seem to be suggesting is something else entirely.

The cases where fabrications and falsehoods are occurring based on some sort of shakedown normally get sniffed out, especially when someone famous is involved. I'd be willing to bet that the proportion of women who get date raped and either are too afraid to even make an accusation or who have their accusation swept under the rug is MUCH MUCH higher. Have you also ever considered that maybe many of the women who end up accepting some sort of monetary settlement/payoff to "go away" actually were true victims who realized that taking the money would be preferable to having themselves be tried in the court of public opinion far more than the celebrity, be called a "slut" etc, and lose whatever privacy and dignity they might have?
- Emperor Filonius

I am suggesting that in cases of clear perjury that the accuser should face severe criminal consequences. Which doesn't happen. Duke Lacrosse ruined lives. No consequence to the accuser. Brian Banks life was ruined with almost zero consequence to his accuser. I don't see why this is such a contested issue. Each case is independent so the perceived proportions of guilty/innocent are irrelevant.

You didn't answer the question.

And I wholeheartedly agree with you on the first paragraph especially once you get outside Buffalo proper and the more populated suburbs, but if you think this was ever a bastion of civil rights I direct you no farther than North Tonawanda, which used to be a "Sundowner" town. Which if you don't know what that means it means that blacks were not allowed in the city after dark. It's always been this way; just for some mind-boggling reason it's become more accepted.

And no where did I say that Roethlisballs wasn't guilty, just that it looked bad that she took the money and ran. I think it's despicable the way women are treated in this "progressive" society. I have a friend who was raped and she was laughed out of the police station and even her own mother told her she was asking for it. I almost threw up when she told me that.
- Wetbandit1

Great post, your opinion wasn't clear to me at first and to answer the question, I am 100% sure he sodomized that woman. I lived in Pittsburgh that year, as well and people's opinion on it was also disgusting. Something along the lines of "I don't care how many women he rapes as long as he brings us another trophy".

Pittsburgh Penguins @penguins
The #Pens have agreed to terms with veteran center Matt Cullen. Details: pens.pe/1gfpgyp.

James Mirtle @mirtle
One-year deal for $800k. Vets starting to take bargains.

I am suggesting that in cases of clear perjury that the accuser should face severe criminal consequences. Which doesn't happen. Duke Lacrosse ruined lives. No consequence to the accuser. Brian Banks life was ruined with almost zero consequence to his accuser. I don't see why this is such a contested issue. Each case is independent so the perceived proportions of guilty/innocent are irrelevant.
- jfkst1

OK, I thought you were going somewhere. I have no issues with this other than that primary position remains that the number of women's lives that get ruined because some scumbag doesn't understand the meaning of "no" is way higher than the number of guys lives that get ruined by a false accusation.

As far as the Duke Lacrosse players, they went on with their lives, got MBAs (one is now a Lawyer, IIRC) and each received a huge settlement from the university. I'm sure it was awful for them at the time, but I'd hardly call their lives ruined.

Great post, your opinion wasn't clear to me at first and to answer the question, I am 100% sure he sodomized that woman. I lived in Pittsburgh that year, as well and people's opinion on it was also disgusting. Something along the lines of "I don't care how many women he rapes as long as he brings us another trophy".
- DynamicThreads

You were clearly not running with a high class of people when you lived here. Your statement certainly reflects the opinion of *some* Steeler fans, but by no means the majority. He took a huge amount of backlash from the fanbase here.

OK, I thought you were going somewhere. I have no issues with this other than that primary position remains that the number of women's lives that get ruined because some scumbag doesn't understand the meaning of "no" is way higher than the number of guys lives that get ruined by a false accusation.

As far as the Duke Lacrosse players, they went on with their lives, got MBAs (one is now a Lawyer, IIRC) and each received a huge settlement from the university. I'm sure it was awful for them at the time, but I'd hardly call their lives ruined.
- Emperor Filonius

can't be prosecuting everybody with perjury, people will stop coming forward for fear that the accused gets off and has a perjury case against them

it's a double edged sword

can't be prosecuting everybody with perjury, people will stop coming forward for fear that the accused gets off and has a perjury case against them

it's a double edged sword
- bobbyisno1

You likely missed that I made the same basic argument earlier in the thread.

Not sure how reading "tread lightly" as a vague warning is anything more than just that but ok. The subject being discussed doesn't determine whether any particular post is offensive etc and thus subject to code of conduct, as any post at any time in any thread can be offensive. Treading lightly suggests that given the subject posts will be subject to a more rigorous definition of offensive thus why I asked what you were watching for. Either way I was just curious what you were watching for. Have a nice day
- uf1910

I don't think he's suggested a different standard of enforcement. I think he's just saying that everyone should be mindful of the rules because Refs are actively watching this thread. In other words, posters violating the rules in this thread are likely to get caught. This isn't necessarily the case in most threads because they typically aren't actively being monitored by the Refs.

whats in the drinking water in Buffalo? Too much fluoride makes you do weird stuff

You likely missed that I made the same basic argument earlier in the thread.
- Emperor Filonius

yeah, but i'm right

OK, I thought you were going somewhere. I have no issues with this other than that primary position remains that the number of women's lives that get ruined because some scumbag doesn't understand the meaning of "no" is way higher than the number of guys lives that get ruined by a false accusation.

As far as the Duke Lacrosse players, they went on with their lives, got MBAs (one is now a Lawyer, IIRC) and each received a huge settlement from the university. I'm sure it was awful for them at the time, but I'd hardly call their lives ruined.
- Emperor Filonius

What made Duke even worse was a DA that was trying to make a name for himself prior to re election. He made the event go nuclear. Which is sad. He was willing to bury a lot of lives for his own personal ambition. That is a crime within itself IMO.

Is it just me or isn't Ek's statement "We don't do gossip" somewhat ironic for a site that specifically deals with rumors and heresy?

Your whole website is based on gossip, and rumours. Although this is a very serious matter for everyone involved, your website traffic is due to " rumours" and "gossip"

Is it just me or isn't Ek's statement "We don't do gossip" somewhat ironic for a site that specifically deals with rumors and heresy?
- BillyCFL

it's like saying "i'm not going to comment or talk about this, I;m just going to put it in the main headline of my hockey website and invite people to comment but I'm not following this story, it's just the biggest hockey story of the summer and could bring a dynasty crumbling down, I don't think we should even think about it, okay"

it's like saying "i'm not going to comment or talk about this, I;m just going to put it in the main headline of my hockey website and invite people to comment but I'm not following this story, it's just the biggest hockey story of the summer and could bring a dynasty crumbling down, I don't think we should even think about it, okay"
- tuna99

Clearly, you're not a graduate of the McGill School of Journalism

Yes agree, law = innocent until 'proven' guilty (or no contest) but unfortunately social media = guilty! guilty & double guilty here in Australia!! Too many get to say too much.

it's like saying "i'm not going to comment or talk about this, I;m just going to put it in the main headline of my hockey website and invite people to comment but I'm not following this story, it's just the biggest hockey story of the summer and could bring a dynasty crumbling down, I don't think we should even think about it, okay"
- tuna99

Yeah, 200+ comments on the story "we aren't going to talk about"
makes a lot of sense
.

I kinda looked through this thread expecting to see a lot of backwards attitudes, a lot of talking about this case in particular, and probably a lot of people rushing to defend Kane in a fairly offensive, narrow-minded way.

I'm happy to say that I really didn't see much of that. Yes, there are a few people defending Kane outright (which I don't agree with at all), but there are a lot more people having an earnest general discussion about a really difficult topic (which is great).

Kudos! Makes me kinda proud to be a part of this normally god-forsaken internet hockey community

This is a nasty story for the NHL. I entirely agree that gossip and innuendo is entirely inappropriate. But the idea that a person is innocent until proven guilty is a matter of law not of public opinion. Voyonov, for example, was suspended for many months before he even came to trial. If a player is a no show for training camp because of an unresolved, outstanding legal issue, it is a huge story and it will be covered.

Needless to say, this thread is being watched closely - by me and others. I'd tread lightly.
- nfph

And well should be ... there are 2 human beings lives here that could be possibly be forever changed , 1st we have a woman who was possibly in a very uncomfortable situation , and 2nd a Professional athlete who is earning millions and vulnerable to gold diggers , very touchy situation and I truly believe the only 2 people who knew what really happened are those affected most in one way or another ... sad really sad