Jesus price !!

sound analysis, man. Which is why there's no chance in hell that Tanner addresses it....he only responds to the easy ones...

Tanner, these comments sections are so entertaining to me. I'd like to thank you for that. You continue to get torched by every single respondent. Love it. You make insane comments in order to troll for hits. I mean, there's no way you actually believe this stuff - no one is that dumb. Then you try to back your comments up by regurgitating the same two or three stats, which highlights how little you understand abou the game

And, of course, you're allowed to call everyone an idiot for disagreeing with you. But if someone does the same thing to you, that person is an ignorant troll

Keep it up, buddy
- AxlRose91

He is consistent though.
I actually am more annoyed with myself then Tanner for even adding to the hits.
He knows what he's doing!.........(Don't confuse that statement for me believing he knows anything about hockey)

There are some serious fundamental issues that your premise is overlooking. First of all, there is a difference between being a more talented player, versus being a better player now. Secondly, you're comparing top level NHL defenseman to role playing defenseman. That's where your opinion goes off base. Neither Grossmann or Gormley are going to be mentioned in the conversation for top defenseman, or even close to that realm, anytime soo So that point is really moot.
Here's the biggest area where your opinion is off base, and what you're missing.
First thing is, hockey is a team game. No one player is responsible for the team being penned in it's own end all the time. That's pretty basic.
So let's dig deeper. There is a shortage of all around defenseman in the NHL. Players that can play in all situations, and in all roles. So what a lot of teams do in some instances, is they bring in role playing defenseman. Phoenix's management knows that the kind of team they have, they're going to spend a considerable amount of time defending in their own end. They also know that they have some young defenseman that they want to develop. The worst thing you can do to an young defenseman, who is struggling to develop and find his game, is to throw him to the wolves. To play him in the tough minutes, such as on the PK, and D zone starts. So what they do in some instances, is bring in a player like Grossmann to take some of those tough minutes and heavy lifting, so they can play the young defenseman in as many favorable situations as they can.
Grossmann is not strong with the puck, and he's not going to have good possession numbers, but that's not his game. Might as well judge him on how many goals he scored. What he can do and will do, is play solidly in his own end, add a physical element, block shots, and play well on the PK. Grossmann has one year left on his deal, so there isn't a lot of risk there. He's been brought in as a stopgap to take some of those hard minutes, to aid the young defenseman to develop, for the short term.

Also the statement you made, "There is no place for Grossman's, Schenns, Polaks in the NHL anymore now that we can actually see what they contribute vs other players, is blatantly false. There most definitely is still room for player like that in the NHL. Simply because there isn't enough of the other kind to go around. There's so much more to looking at hockey than just blindly looking at corsi and other possession metrics, which are really team statistics. This is a text book case of how they're used incorrectly.

The above is what Phoenix's management knows and understands, that you're overlooking.
- MJL

I would also like to see Tanner's response to this.

The entire point was that it's not. But yeah, it kind of is the time to make it better. Maybe you aren't aware of this - because giving strongly worded opinions that you have no clue about seems to be today's theme - but the Coyotes have a very, very nice collection of prospects.

I'm not saying that you should ever stop trying to collect more assets, but there really is no need to keep being intentionally bad. It's time to start putting the blocks in place for the next level.
- James_Tanner

What I am aware of, despite your unique ability to label everyone who doesn't agree you as uneducated, is that defensively, Arizona has only 1 NHL caliber prospect, not a "very nice collection." Gormley is all they have, and he isn't even a future top pairing defenceman. If you believe otherwise, then you are simply wrong. The Coyotes still have a lot of work to do at the draft. You seem to want to create a team with a fully developed defense, but how are you going to do that? You mentioned a few mid-level prospects might be traded, but you would also have to give picks and top prospects to make a competitive team right now. That means they would have to start over again after only a couple seasons as a playoff bubble team. I seriously cant tell if you plan very poorly, or if you don't plan at all when you write these blogs. You are all about quantity instead of quality.

As poor as Tanner's analysis is, it still has your's beat!
- MJL

It probably should being as he gets paid to do it. What was wrong with my analysis? The part about how poor he is at puck handling, the part about how effective he is at pinning his player, or the part about how he is a dying breed type of dman? Yeah this league is getting influxed with slow plodding poor puck handling types. If your trying to get catty, I'm not interested. If you want to talk hockey, then let's.

It probably should being as he gets paid to do it. What was wrong with my analysis? The part about how poor he is at puck handling, the part about how effective he is at pinning his player, or the part about how he is a dying breed type of dman? Yeah this league is getting influxed with slow plodding poor puck handling types. If your trying to get catty, I'm not interested. If you want to talk hockey, then let's
- Just5

What's wrong with it is that it lacks analysis. The statement that he "blows" is real in depth.

Sure, let's talk hockey. I don't call posting "Rise above it Tanner....Grossman blows" an attempt to talk hockey. I made a pretty in depth post on the value of a player like Grossmann to a team on this thread. That's my contribution to talking hockey.

What's wrong with it is that it lacks analysis. The statement that he "blows" is real in depth.
- MJL

Go scratch up another tree

It probably should being as he gets paid to do it. What was wrong with my analysis? The part about how poor he is at puck handling, the part about how effective he is at pinning his player, or the part about how he is a dying breed type of dman? Yeah this league is getting influxed with slow plodding poor puck handling types. If your trying to get catty, I'm not interested. If you want to talk hockey, then let's.
- Just5

'Dying breed' is a huge overstatement. It's actually misleading if anything.
It really probably depends on the make up of your team.

There's only so much room for offensive only guys. I'd actually bet that there are a similar amount of grossman types as there are ma Bergeron types. Ie; useless everywhere but in the offensive zone.

In a cap world where one cant stack their team with multiple high priced two way guys, there's always gonna be room for players with size who can play a physical safe game and compete down low in the defensive zone.
In fact, if a team has a few guys that are capable at both ends and can move the puck, the size and stay at home guys are probably far more useful to a squad.
The game is played in 3 zones and you aren't always gonna have possession.

For every low talented plug like grossman, there are also many creative but soft offensive guys that Every bit the problem. Just in other areas.
Even those with fantastic offensive instincts, a ton of talent and some potential to develop defensively like the gardiners and schultz's are very suspect without the puck and a total liability against a tough forecheck from the thorntons etc

Again, you think anyone who disagree's with you is ignorant. I comprehend why you think Grossman has value and why some GMs and coaches also will.

There is no place for Grossman's, Schenns, Polaks in the NHL anymore now that we can actually see what they contribute vs other players.

There's some debate whether anyone can actually be a good penalty killer anyways. Marginal skill differences without the puck vs a man advantage probably don't matter as much as people think.

I get why people think you need that inspiring, shot blocking animal back there, but there is a reason virtually all the best defenseman historically are offensive based.

If you can do what Grossman does and not be a possession black hole, then those are definitely some useful skills. But what you don't seem to get is that no matter how any shots you block and how many hits you throw, if you're penned in your own end all the time, then you aren't a good player.
- James_Tanner

But they are still here, they still get signed. They still get ice time.

But they are still here, they still get signed. They still get ice time.
- sbroads24

ahem

BIG JOHN SCOTT

There are some serious fundamental issues that your premise is overlooking. First of all, there is a difference between being a more talented player, versus being a better player now. Secondly, you're comparing top level NHL defenseman to role playing defenseman. That's where your opinion goes off base. Neither Grossmann or Gormley are going to be mentioned in the conversation for top defenseman, or even close to that realm, anytime soo So that point is really moot.
Here's the biggest area where your opinion is off base, and what you're missing.
First thing is, hockey is a team game. No one player is responsible for the team being penned in it's own end all the time. That's pretty basic.
So let's dig deeper. There is a shortage of all around defenseman in the NHL. Players that can play in all situations, and in all roles. So what a lot of teams do in some instances, is they bring in role playing defenseman. Phoenix's management knows that the kind of team they have, they're going to spend a considerable amount of time defending in their own end. They also know that they have some young defenseman that they want to develop. The worst thing you can do to an young defenseman, who is struggling to develop and find his game, is to throw him to the wolves. To play him in the tough minutes, such as on the PK, and D zone starts. So what they do in some instances, is bring in a player like Grossmann to take some of those tough minutes and heavy lifting, so they can play the young defenseman in as many favorable situations as they can.
Grossmann is not strong with the puck, and he's not going to have good possession numbers, but that's not his game. Might as well judge him on how many goals he scored. What he can do and will do, is play solidly in his own end, add a physical element, block shots, and play well on the PK. Grossmann has one year left on his deal, so there isn't a lot of risk there. He's been brought in as a stopgap to take some of those hard minutes, to aid the young defenseman to develop, for the short term.

Also the statement you made, "There is no place for Grossman's, Schenns, Polaks in the NHL anymore now that we can actually see what they contribute vs other players, is blatantly false. There most definitely is still room for player like that in the NHL. Simply because there isn't enough of the other kind to go around. There's so much more to looking at hockey than just blindly looking at corsi and other possession metrics, which are really team statistics. This is a text book case of how they're used incorrectly.

The above is what Phoenix's management knows and understands, that you're overlooking.
- MJL

Where you at, James???

what a colossal loser.

what a colossal loser.
- kicksave856

This is the winners thread

This is the winners thread
- PhillySportsGuy

apparently.

Summary please

Summary please
- Streit2ThePoint

Grossman is an AHLer mmkay?

Am I too late?

Am I too late?
- BulliesPhan87

I'll scoot over

Grossman is an AHLer mmkay?
- mochoson

Not even a good one.

But they are still here, they still get signed. They still get ice time.
- sbroads24

...and their respective teams miss the playoffs

Not even a good one.
- James_Tanner

No response to MJL? In my mind, he won that argument since he appears to have made some strong points with no response from you.

No response to MJL? In my mind, he won that argument since he appears to have made some strong points with no response from you.
- Nucker101

A resounding victory for MJL.

Not sure Tanner will recover.

No response to MJL? In my mind, he won that argument since he appears to have made some strong points with no response from you.
- Nucker101

what can Tanner even say? MJL barged in and ate his lunch, there's no recovering from that

what can Tanner even say? MJL barged in and ate his lunch, there's no recovering from that
- BulliesPhan87

Who's this MJL character? I don't see all the comments. Whatever he said just give it to him, I got no fight in me today.