Brandon Sutter 4.3 mil - Laughable contract
Carl Hagelin 4 mil - steal

One had 33 points, the other had 35

Here's the new rule

If you have good possession numbers, your contract is good no matter what. If you have bad possession numbers, your contract is bad no matter what.
- sbroads24

So would it takes more then Sbisa to pry Rienhart off of you guys? joke
But seriously you are stacked with center prospects and may trade one of them for better depth elsewhere, so what would it take?
1st in 16
Hamhuis
Higgins
2nd In 16 and 17
Just not Sbisa ok fellows.

- Sabresfan-365

So would it takes more then Sbisa to pry Rienhart off of you guys? joke
But seriously you are stacked with center prospects and may trade one of them for better depth elsewhere, so what would it take?
1st in 16
Hamhuis
Higgins
2nd In 16 and 17
Just not Sbisa ok fellows.
- Pres.cup

For Reinhart? I didn't think many around here are willing to part with our upper end second/first line center of the future(I see ROR as moving to wing when Sam is ready). Although Hamhuis is really good and trading for defense is what we need, I don't see his age as something that is beneficial to our rebuild. I think if you're going for Sam it starts at Bo and a first

So would it takes more then Sbisa to pry Rienhart off of you guys? joke
But seriously you are stacked with center prospects and may trade one of them for better depth elsewhere, so what would it take?
1st in 16
Hamhuis
Higgins
2nd In 16 and 17
Just not Sbisa ok fellows.
- Pres.cup

i imagine if it ever came down to that (i fully expect him to move our 2016 1st at the draft unless it's 1 or 2 overall) he'd be looking for someone in their mid 20's, fits most of the trades he's made so far.

- CaptainRivet

Pretty much. But it's also the role each guy will play on the team. Hennings sees Sutter as a "core foundational piece" to be on the second line, while Hagelin is a guy with actual second line possession and points numbers (these are points per 60 minutes numbers and not simply total points which is what makes Sutter look decent). Sutter has 3rd line or below points/60 numbers
- MattFreaknEllis

Sutter P/60 1.23
Hagelin P/60 1.80

Hagelin also had a better quality of teammates.

Also, if you look at other P/60 on Pittsburgh, they aren't too impressive

Chris Kunitz 1.33 P/60. He's viewed as a top line player

- Sabresfan-365

Oh my.

People who claim he's more "consistent" than Myers forget he's been routinely benched in WPG or moved down the lineup.

- Sabresfan-365

Myers stinks.

I agree but not on the specific comparison between hagelin and sutter.

Hagelin is being paid to be a speedy two way winger whose numbers they believe will go up playing with i assume one of kesler or getzlaf.

Sutter on the other hand is being paid to be a good two way centre, problem there is he isn't.
- Sabresfan-365

I just love the lack on context.


For example

Ryan Wilson wrote that O'Reilly is our best acquisition of the offseason, and even points out his P/60 is that of a 2nd liner, however because of the eventual cap increase his 7.5 hit won't be that bad.

Yet, for some reason, when blasting Brandon Sutter, there is never a mention that eventually the average 3rd liner will be making 4 mil

If you have good possession #s, excuses are valid

Oh my.

People who claim he's more "consistent" than Myers forget he's been routinely benched in WPG or moved down the lineup.
- sbroads24

Fun article by Bucci comparing his thoughts back in 2009 to now. http://espn.go.com/nhl/st...y-nhl-team-mount-rushmore


Who goes on the Sabres Mount Rushmore in 2015?

I'd go with Miller, Myers, and Peters. Twice.

Fun article by Bucci comparing his thoughts back in 2009 to now. http://espn.go.com/nhl/st...y-nhl-team-mount-rushmore


Who goes on the Sabres Mount Rushmore in 2015?

I'd go with Miller, Myers, and Peters. Twice.
- CaptainRivet

Weber, Lalime, Delmore, Ellis

I just love the lack on context.


For example

Ryan Wilson wrote that O'Reilly is our best acquisition of the offseason, and even points out his P/60 is that of a 2nd liner, however because of the eventual cap increase his 7.5 hit won't be that bad.

Yet, for some reason, when blasting Brandon Sutter, there is never a mention that eventually the average 3rd liner will be making 4 mil

If you have good possession #s, excuses are valid
- sbroads24

I think the problem he has with Sutter is that you can get the same if not better for significantly less (Fehr comes to mind) opening up space to address other needs.

It may one day become the going rate in FA to pay that much, doesn't mean you should though. It's what often separates good teams from great.

Sutter P/60 1.23
Hagelin P/60 1.80

Hagelin also had a better quality of teammates.

Also, if you look at other P/60 on Pittsburgh, they aren't too impressive

Chris Kunitz 1.33 P/60. He's viewed as a top line player
- sbroads24

Hagelin's most common forward line mates were Kevin Hayes, Jt Miller, Jesper Fast, and Dominic Moore. That qualifies as mostly 3rd and 4th liners. also when you take into account P/60 5v5 (as Hagelin got <50 minutes of pp time for the season) Hagelin is at 1.60 and Sutter has 1.18.

also, Hagelin actually improved the line mates he was given(albeit slightly)

I just love the lack on context.


For example

Ryan Wilson wrote that O'Reilly is our best acquisition of the offseason, and even points out his P/60 is that of a 2nd liner, however because of the eventual cap increase his 7.5 hit won't be that bad.

Yet, for some reason, when blasting Brandon Sutter, there is never a mention that eventually the average 3rd liner will be making 4 mil

If you have good possession #s, excuses are valid
- sbroads24

Ryan Wilson's point here is that Ryan O'Reilly will make your team better on any day of the week playing a variety of roles, while Sutter does not. I highly recommend you go through some of his older articles as he has some good ones explaining why Sutter is not a very good hockey player

I think the problem he has with Sutter is that you can get the same if not better for significantly less (Fehr comes to mind) opening up space to address other needs.

It may one day become the going rate in FA to pay that much, doesn't mean you should though. It's what often separates good teams from great.
- Sabresfan-365

This is a good point as Sutter is easily replaceable with a better or similar player. ROR is among the top 2 way players that are tough to find and if you do you better pay up to keep them

Weber, Lalime, Delmore, Ellis
- sbroads24

Feel like Zubrus and Gragnani deserve a spot

Ryan Wilson's point here is that Ryan O'Reilly will make your team better on any day of the week playing a variety of roles, while Sutter does not. I highly recommend you go through some of his older articles as he has some good ones explaining why Sutter is not a very good hockey player
- MattFreaknEllis

This isn't to criticize the writer, it's not just his opinion. It's many.

Brandon Sutter averages 17 goals per 82 games over the past 3 seasons.

Bad hockey players don't score that much. Period.

Not every player in the league needs to make other players better. Sutter is a player that if you can place him with two decent wingers can score 15-20 goals in a 3rd line role.

I'm not disagreeing that Hagelin is better, or that O'Reilly isn't an excellent player.

My main point is that sometimes analytics writers/bloggers seem to feel the need to shout louder than others(example picking apart everything about Brandon Sutter)

This isn't to criticize the writer, it's not just his opinion. It's many.

Brandon Sutter averages 17 goals per 82 games over the past 3 seasons.

Bad hockey players don't score that much. Period.

Not every player in the league needs to make other players better. Sutter is a player that if you can place him with two decent wingers can score 15-20 goals in a 3rd line role.

I'm not disagreeing that Hagelin is better, or that O'Reilly isn't an excellent player.

My main point is that sometimes analytics writers/bloggers seem to feel the need to shout louder than others(example picking apart everything about Brandon Sutter)
- sbroads24

I mean that's true, it's just I would rather have a guy like Fehr (2 mil) or Bonino(1.9) who are better players, but much cheaper.

For Reinhart? I didn't think many around here are willing to part with our upper end second/first line center of the future(I see ROR as moving to wing when Sam is ready). Although Hamhuis is really good and trading for defense is what we need, I don't see his age as something that is beneficial to our rebuild. I think if you're going for Sam it starts at Bo and a first
- MattFreaknEllis

Taney
2016 1st/2nd
Higgins

For Sam

Buffalo gets a young top 4 with term, Higgins is a veteran depth winger who plays a safe game and can mentor the kids. The first fills the difference in talent.

Canucks get a potential first line center for when the twins retire.

I mean that's true, it's just I would rather have a guy like Fehr (2 mil) or Bonino(1.9) who are better players, but much cheaper.
- MattFreaknEllis

Absolutely. Me too. I take stock into analytics.

My issue becomes when the actual statistic of goals are devalued

Taney
2016 1st/2nd
Higgins

For Sam

Buffalo gets a young top 4 with term, Higgins is a veteran depth winger who plays a safe game and can mentor the kids. The first fills the difference in talent.

Canucks get a potential first line center for when the twins retire.
- Pres.cup

You're not gunna like where this conversation ends up.

You're not gunna like where this conversation ends up.
- Sabresfan-365

Lol
The first will probably end up being Austin Matthews. .....

Ok fine.
Sbisa straight up for Sam and a first

his screaming is magical



2:56 mark
- homiedclown

Im glad you guys came around on Schony. That album is pure, solid gold and I won't stand for any bad-talking of it. Teaming Schony's vocal cords and keyboard mastery with John Valby's studio wizardry is an unstoppable combo.

Lol
The first will probably end up being Austin Matthews. .....

Ok fine.
Sbisa straight up for Sam and a first

- Pres.cup

Deal


wait...