Not everyone. I'm on record as having hated it from Day 1. The team gave up as much for a 34 yo Pronger as the teams did in the previous two trades for a much younger and even more dominant Pronger.

Given his age and playing style, it was very unlikely he'd play out the deal. The eye injury was freaky, but remember he missed a lot of games the year before with knee issues. Between the knees and back, there was a good chance he'd miss a lot more time.

Having given up all of those assets they had no choice but to sign him to that deal.

If they win the cup in 2010 then I would have been very happy with egg on my face


- TheGreat28

It was risky. It made them a bona fide contender immediately, but it also meant that they needed two defensemen in their mid-30's to play at a high level into their late 30's or even early 40's.

That didn't happen and the resulting moves led to a team with fairly big holes, a depleted system and a big cap number. Overall the Holmgreen Era had some big successes, and was a good one, but he should have started the re-tooling Hexy has embarked on a year or two sooner

that's it just those two guys? clarke, lindros, poulan, kerr, brind'amour, howe? no?
- JoeRussomanno

All of the guys you named did very well in the playoffs, but also put up similar numbers in the regular season. Briere, Macleish and (as Bill reminded me) Ken Linseman were 3 who seemed to increase their offensive output in the playoffs.

that's it just those two guys? clarke, lindros, poulan, kerr, brind'amour, howe? no?
- JoeRussomanno

I never got to experience some of them, but I never went into a playoff series going, "Thank God we have Rod brind'Amour." I mean, he was a great player and a pure warrior, but having him in the lineup for the playoffs never made me feel secure about a series win.

Absolutely. I've met some players here and there in my life, but DannyB has to be up there with the classiest I've ever met. Such a soft spoken and humble human being. Can't say enough nice things about the guy.
- mochoson

He'd definitely make my top 10 classiest Flyers of all time list.


Hmmmm....

He'd definitely make my top 10 classiest Flyers of all time list.


Hmmmm....
- BiggE

Not to totally deter the thread, but on a similar note, one of my friends in (as we speak) at a conference in Pittsburgh. The key note speaker is Bill Clement. Was very nice, took pictures with everyone who wanted one, and let everyone put on his Cup ring who wanted to. Briere is a similar guy, was always great with fans old and especially young.

He'd definitely make my top 10 classiest Flyers of all time list.


Hmmmm....
- BiggE

Does Dave Brown make the list? I mean, he did the classy thing for the rest of the hockey world in removing Sandstrom's jaw from the rest of Sandstrom's jaw.

i look at holmgren like i look at the titanic's maiden voyage, had tons of potential to be really great but in the end the inability to steer clear of the iceberg (big rfa signings for players that stunk, several ppl said would stink), sunk the ship.
- JoeRussomanno

I was on-board with a lot of his moves when they happened, but hindsight sure changed that. It wasn't until I saw some of the guys he added day in and out that I soured on some of them. Outside of Streit, his FA signings post 2010 we're more miss than hit.

I suppose I gave him the benefit of the doubt after his work retooling the mess of 2006-07

Not everyone. I'm on record as having hated it from Day 1. The team gave up as much for a 34 yo Pronger as the teams did in the previous two trades for a much younger and even more dominant Pronger.

Given his age and playing style, it was very unlikely he'd play out the deal. The eye injury was freaky, but remember he missed a lot of games the year before with knee issues. Between the knees and back, there was a good chance he'd miss a lot more time.

Having given up all of those assets they had no choice but to sign him to that deal.

If they win the cup in 2010 then I would have been very happy with egg on my face


- TheGreat28

Your points come from after the trade. The injuries and the signing were after the trade.

I was on-board with a lot of his moves when they happened, but hindsight sure changed that. It wasn't until I saw some of the guys he added day in and out that I soured on some of them. Outside of Streit, his FA signings post 2010 we're more miss than hit.

I suppose I gave him the benefit of the doubt after his work retooling the mess of 2006-07
- Jsaquella

Aside from Bryzgalov and Kubina, I liked almost every one of his moves up until the 2012 offseason.

It was risky. It made them a bona fide contender immediately, but it also meant that they needed two defensemen in their mid-30's to play at a high level into their late 30's or even early 40's.

That didn't happen and the resulting moves led to a team with fairly big holes, a depleted system and a big cap number. Overall the Holmgreen Era had some big successes, and was a good one, but he should have started the re-tooling Hexy has embarked on a year or two sooner
- Jsaquella

I'm not exactly hating the fact Lupul and Sbisa are gone. What did the two firsts become?

That's what I don't like about the trade evaluation. You can't say, "Well, I don't like such-and-such trade, but if this happens, then I'll like it." It's like the Eminger trade. You can't like it or dislike it based on Washington taking Carlson and how his career has turned out. You can only judge it at the time.
- jmatchett383

Absolutely.

Aside from Bryzgalov and Kubina, I liked almost every one of his moves up until the 2012 offseason.
- jmatchett383

I'm strictly looking at FA signings, but yeah the summer after they basically knew Pronger was finished was when the far more questionable moves started happening.

I do feel if Pronger never got hurt it would have been a lot different. They used a lot of assets to fill that hole, or to try to fill that hole. Despite the fluke nature of the injury, Holmgren bet a lot on two veteran defensemen avoiding injury/decline in their late 30s.

And unfortunately, he lost that bet. Call it hindsight, but trading Lupul, Sbisa and two 1st rounders for 150 or so games of Pronger didn't work out.

I'm not exactly hating the fact Lupul and Sbisa are gone. What did the two firsts become?
- SuperSchennBros

John Moore (CLB) and Emerson Etem

I'm not exactly hating the fact Lupul and Sbisa are gone. What did the two firsts become?
- SuperSchennBros

There was only one other first, and that ended up being Emerson Etem. It seems like the conditional 3rd was never used.

Edit: The 2009 pick was flipped to Columbus and was John Moore.

That's what I don't like about the trade evaluation. You can't say, "Well, I don't like such-and-such trade, but if this happens, then I'll like it." It's like the Eminger trade. You can't like it or dislike it based on Washington taking Carlson and how his career has turned out. You can only judge it at the time.
- jmatchett383

I hear you, and let me rephrase. At the time I didn't say I hated it but if they win the cup I'll change my mind. I was consistent in my opposition, even during that first year when he was an all star.

But if they won the cup, then I would certainly have been proven wrong and would have been happy to admit it. Does that make sense?

Not that anyone gives a crap what I think anyway lol

I hear you, and let me rephrase. At the time I didn't say I hated it but if they win the cup I'll change my mind. I was consistent in my opposition, even during that first year when he was an all star.

But if they won the cup, then I would certainly have been proven wrong and would have been happy to admit it. Does that make sense?

Not that anyone gives a crap what I think anyway lol
- TheGreat28

I totally got what you're saying. You didn't like the trade, but would have been happy with the outcome, kind of an end justifying the means sort of thing. I just don't like the "Yeah, it looked good, but since such-and-such happened, now I don't," mentality, generally speaking.

I'm not exactly hating the fact Lupul and Sbisa are gone. What did the two firsts become?
- SuperSchennBros

John Moore and Emerson Etem. Pronger played 171 games for the Flyers. Despite these great run in 2010, they lost the gamble. At the time, I was all for the deal. In hindsight, knowing all that happened, I wouldn't make the same deal now.

If you would, great. You're entitled to that opinion.

Your points come from after the trade. The injuries and the signing were after the trade.
- SuperSchennBros

No, I said it the day of the draft. I remember driving in the car with my wife and infant daughter. When it was announced on the radio I was so pissed and oblivious that I literally screamed a profanity so loud my daughter cried. I felt like such a crappy dad lol.

Again, it makes no difference, but it was not revisionist history.

And now, one man's opinion on the top 10 classiest players in Flyers history!!

Honorable mentions
Kevin Dineen and Darryl Sittler

10. Shjon Podein
Guy played the game the right way and was always willing to answer the tough questions after a game and give back to the fans. He was one of my favorite players during the Lindros era.

9. Jim Watson
Watson played the game with style and grace and played through some very serious back pain as well. He was always approachable and was another guy that never ducked the tough questions and always gave an honest answer.

8. Jake Voracek
As Bill has pointed out, Jake always makes time for fans, especially children and he is extremely generous with both his time and money. He is also a class act and a stand up guy on the ice too.

7. Eric Desjardins
Another all around good guy and a great player as well. Desjardins will always be remembered for facing the tough questions following the sweep in the '97 finals and for stepping in as captain during one of the most turbulent times in team history.

6. Kimmo Timonen
Not only was he a class act, but he was a true warrior who led by example. His ability to play through pain was legendary and he could say more with a glance than most players can with a diatribe. His leadership was badly missed last season.

5. Mark Howe
Not only was he the best dman in team history, he was one of the classiest as well. Howe played the game with breathtaking combo of skill, grace and passion and the Flyers have been looking for a top notch #1 dman since he left.

4. Brad Marsh
Marsh is another in a long line of classy Flyer dmen. He was always available for charitable work and still is today and he gave 100% every moment, of every shift in every game. He also did a fabulous job of taking younger players under his wing and helping them adjust to the NHL lifestyle.

3. Barry Ashbee
Ashbee was a true man's man. He played through crippling pain, but never used it as an excuse for poor play. He, as much as Bobby Clarke, set the had work example for the Broad Street Bullies. Struck down by leukemia during the prime of his life, he handled every moment of his final struggle with class and dignity.

2. Danny Briere
I can personally attest to just how classy a guy Danny Briere is. At our J.C.C.'s sportsnight event a couple of years ago, Briere was the guest of honor. Danny arrived early, stayed late and took the time to take pictures with and sign autographs for anyone who wanted one. He also went out of his way to help raise money for underprivileged children during the event. Now add that to what he did in regards to helping Giroux and Couturier adjust to the NHL and you have a true class act.

1. Dave Poulin
Number one on my list is Dave Poulin. Poulin was the perfect team captain. He always knew the right thing to say and when to say it, and he was always patient and gracious with both media and fans. Just thinking about the trade that sent him to Boston for a washed up Ken Linseman still ticks me off today, 25 years later!! Poulin was liked and respected not just by every Flyer he played with, but with every NHL player he ever played with.

It was risky. It made them a bona fide contender immediately, but it also meant that they needed two defensemen in their mid-30's to play at a high level into their late 30's or even early 40's.

That didn't happen and the resulting moves led to a team with fairly big holes, a depleted system and a big cap number. Overall the Holmgreen Era had some big successes, and was a good one, but he should have started the re-tooling Hexy has embarked on a year or two sooner
- Jsaquella

I completely agree!

I hear you, and let me rephrase. At the time I didn't say I hated it but if they win the cup I'll change my mind. I was consistent in my opposition, even during that first year when he was an all star.

But if they won the cup, then I would certainly have been proven wrong and would have been happy to admit it. Does that make sense?

Not that anyone gives a crap what I think anyway lol
- TheGreat28

My initial reaction was that I hated the trade, essentially 4 1sts and a big contract coming back. After realizing we sent back 4+ mil (Lupul) and true #1 dmen don't grow on trees I warmed up to the idea.

Does Dave Brown make the list? I mean, he did the classy thing for the rest of the hockey world in removing Sandstrom's jaw from the rest of Sandstrom's jaw.
- jmatchett383

It would certainly be in the running for my top 10 personal regular season moments!

I totally got what you're saying. You didn't like the trade, but would have been happy with the outcome, kind of an end justifying the means sort of thing. I just don't like the "Yeah, it looked good, but since such-and-such happened, now I don't," mentality, generally speaking.
- jmatchett383

I don't dislike it, it was a bold gamble that didn't work out. That's different than saying I wouldn't make the same trade in hindsight.

Most people who rip Holmgren recognize he did a lot of good, too. That gets glossed over by the hyperbole and nonsense, but it's true.
- Jsaquella

Agree with this as well. He made some very good moves, and some questionable moves. He was also influenced by others in the organization on some of his moves.

Overall I think he was a better than average GM. He just couldn't take the team to the proverbial next level.

I don't dislike it, it was a bold gamble that didn't work out. That's different than saying I wouldn't make the same trade in hindsight.
- Jsaquella

I never said you did dislike it.