It's true, but part of the reason they didn't draft and develop defenseman is because they traded three 2nds, three 3rds and a 4th in the deals the brought them Grossmann, Kubina, Streit & MacDonald.

There is cause and effect. They traded a lot picks away and didn't have as much of an opportunity to draft and develop defensemen as they would have if they retained the picks. They actively decided to spend those picks to acquire vets rather than draft & develop.
- Jsaquella

Definitely true. The problem with that philosophy was in getting mostly 2nd pairing guys instead of potential 1st pairing guys, even recognizing that the draft is a crap shoot. They did pick Sbisa, and MAB, Ratchuk, Bodrov etc so there was some investment in D, but just not soon enough and really week in the development department.

He'd definitely make my top 10 classiest Flyers of all time list.


Hmmmm....
- BiggE

he was too one dimensional for me to get excited about.

True but they also had a run of dud 2nd round D picks from mid-1990s to 2000s: Kenny, Beckett, Forbes, Ratchuk, Bodrov, Marshall.
- bmeltzer

That's fair.

I remember being shocked at how much they traded for Pronger but also happy that we had a GM that would go all out to win. He was quoted as saying "We are trying to win championships here" (not an exact quote). He was swinging for the fences and it almost worked. I am actually happy how it all went down outside of the freak accident. Yes his knees may have been shot but maybe not, too. What I think he did poorly was not rebuild more after the accident. He had just traded Richards and Carter and had young assets that were not ready to compete for a cup. He didn't need to rush out and swing for the fences again. A little patience would have gone a long way. You don't have to spend to the cap just to spend to the cap or if you think you do, do it with 1-2 year contracts. I think Hexy would have waited it out for a better window to push for contention. At least that is what he is preaching. Outside of the Hartnel, trade Hexy is looking like a real winner.

Agreed here. He could drop the hammer when he needed to, but he wasn't a Schenn/Gudas type who went running around looking to nail people. He was just so strong and positionally sound that he could knock a player off the puck without a huge hit.
- jmatchett383

Not only that, but he was so good with the puck, both in his own end and offensively. The Pronger/Carle pairing completely controlled the game when they were out there.

I never got to experience some of them, but I never went into a playoff series going, "Thank God we have Rod brind'Amour." I mean, he was a great player and a pure warrior, but having him in the lineup for the playoffs never made me feel secure about a series win.
- jmatchett383

a guy who was basically complete in all aspects of the game and could burn a team on the pk and play both ends of the ice vs a guy who was one dimensional ... sorry i never felt that "security" you guys did... in fact i held my breath hoping he wouldn't provide too much lousy coverage.

But he did sign Brandon Manning and Erik Gustafsson, both of whom are our saviours.

Edit: That would be Homer, not Clarkie.
- jmatchett383

did they get a 2ND yet for the rights to Gus? I mean he is a dman every team can use in their top 6 and just really wasn't given a chance here.

did they get a 2ND yet for the rights to Gus? I mean he is a dman every team can use in their top 6 and just really wasn't given a chance here.
- rinaldo

It's coming right after Edmonton, Carolina, and Buffalo have wage a nuclear war to grab Brandon Manning seconds after he's put on waivers.

It's coming right after Edmonton, Carolina, and Buffalo have wage a nuclear war to grab Brandon Manning seconds after he's put on waivers.
- jmatchett383

very possible though I see the red wings offering a pick for manning. another classic example of a guy just not getting a chance here. to lose 2 guys like that who could be playing in your top 6 is a terrible waste of assets.

It's coming right after Edmonton, Carolina, and Buffalo have wage a nuclear war to grab Brandon Manning seconds after he's put on waivers.
- jmatchett383

very possible though I see the red wings offering a pick for manning. another classic example of a guy just not getting a chance here. to lose 2 guys like that who could be playing in your top 6 is a terrible waste of assets.
- rinaldo

Yeah. If only we'd given Jared Ross a chance, we may have 4-5 Cups. After all, he scored a playoff goal once.

Yeah. If only we'd given Jared Ross a chance, we may have 4-5 Cups. After all, he scored a playoff goal once.
- jmatchett383

I was thinking more andre faust.

Amish eyes are crying today...

Amish eyes are crying today...
- Flyskippy

Amish eyes are crying today...
- Flyskippy

What's that mean?

What's that mean?
- benjichronic

It means Spaghetti is going to get canned -- or more accurately, bottled at a glue factory.

did they get a 2ND yet for the rights to Gus? I mean he is a dman every team can use in their top 6 and just really wasn't given a chance here.
- rinaldo

Gustaffsson is a border line NHL player at best, and is not a player that every team can use if their top 6 . If Gustafsson was that good, he'd be playing for the Flyers or traded for value. He's in the KHL because there is very little interest in him among NHL teams, and he can make more money over there.

It means Spaghetti is going to get canned -- or more accurately, bottled at a glue factory.
- Flyskippy

Ah, the good ol' days, like when t_ma'am thought it was an actual horse.

Ah, the good ol' days, like when t_ma'am thought it was an actual horse.
- tangent_man

Bingo!

True but they also had a run of dud 2nd round D picks from mid-1990s to 2000s: Kenny, Beckett, Forbes, Ratchuk, Bodrov, Marshall.
- bmeltzer

Absolutely, but it's really hard to draft and develop when you make only 3 second round picks over the course o 6 or 7 years,

Amish eyes are crying today...
- Flyskippy

Definitely true. The problem with that philosophy was in getting mostly 2nd pairing guys instead of potential 1st pairing guys, even recognizing that the draft is a crap shoot. They did pick Sbisa, and MAB, Ratchuk, Bodrov etc so there was some investment in D, but just not soon enough and really week in the development department.
- TheGreat28

There was some effort there, but from 2007(Holmgren's first draft as GM) through 2013 the Flyers picked in the 2nd round three times. One was in the 2007 draft, then the next two were in 2012 & 2013. Four straight years of no second rounders, including two years that they didn't pick in until the third round.

That's a huge lack of systemic assets coming in on cheap deals to develop.

Ah, the good ol' days, like when t_ma'am thought it was an actual horse.
- tangent_man

Confession: I actually felt terrible about that after learning of it. Thankfully, some bloke what lives near the shore told me it was all good.

Ah, the good ol' days, like when t_ma'am thought it was an actual horse.
- tangent_man

There was some effort there, but from 2007(Holmgren's first draft as GM) through 2013 the Flyers picked in the 2nd round three times. One was in the 2007 draft, then the next two were in 2012 & 2013. Four straight years of no second rounders, including two years that they didn't pick in until the third round.

That's a huge lack of systemic assets coming in on cheap deals to develop.
- Jsaquella

Well, you're preaching to the choir on that one. I was trying to at least say something positive about Holmgren and dman lol. And you and I have always been on the same page about his penchant for trading draft picks.

At the end of the day the defense was to Holmgren as goaltending was to Clarke...an Achilles heel.

Confession: I actually felt terrible about that after learning of it. Thankfully, some bloke what lives near the shore told me it was all good.
- Flyskippy

The stories at that tailgate just flowed like truth. The joys of improv.