Bill Meltzer: Meltzer's Musings: Couturier, Flyers Alumni Camp Schedule and More

One difference that stands out to me when comparing Couturier and Handzus is strength. Handzus was a very strong player and very hard to knock off the puck. I think Couturier could really benefit by adding another 10-12 pounds of muscle to his frame.

Bill Meltzer: Meltzer's Musings: Couturier, Flyers Alumni Camp Schedule and More
- bmeltzer

Bill,

I think you present a pretty fair analysis on Couturier, and I like the comparison to Zeus. The one thing with the skating though is that Handzus' lack of speed was mitigated somewhat by playing in the clutch and grab era. Speed matters more than ever today.

The other thing is that I just don't see Laughton being the next Keith Primeau, either offensively or defensively. Hopefully I'm wrong.

Bill,

I think you present a pretty fair analysis on Couturier, and I like the comparison to Zeus. The one thing with the skating though is that Handzus' lack of speed was mitigated somewhat by playing in the clutch and grab era. Speed matters more than ever today.

The other thing is that I just don't see Laughton being the next Keith Primeau, either offensively or defensively. Hopefully I'm wrong.
- TheGreat28

I don't see Laughton as the next Primeau, either, but I do think he can become good enough over time to share some defensive hefty-lifting and also contribute a bit of offensive support as well.

I don't see Laughton as the next Primeau, either, but I do think he can become good enough over time to share some defensive hefty-lifting and also contribute a bit of offensive support as well.
- bmeltzer

I think he can. But I still worry about scoring with Couts and Laughton as your second and third centers. Honestly, what I'd like in a 2c is someone like Briere. While he as here there was always a second line that was a threat to score. Often they were even more dangerous than the first line. Long term we need to take pressure off of G, especially in the playoffs.

I would be happy if Laughton could become Zeus/otto and Cout more primeau like.

I think he can. But I still worry about scoring with Couts and Laughton as your second and third centers. Honestly, what I'd like in a 2c is someone like Briere. While he as here there was always a second line that was a threat to score. Often they were even more dangerous than the first line. Long term we need to take pressure off of G, especially in the playoffs.
- TheGreat28

Briere was a great clutch scorer, but he was also a threat to be scored upon. I want all 4 center to be solid two way players. Just as you pointed out that when Handzus played it was a clutch and grab era, today's game is a 200 foot game. Need every line to be able to play both sides of the puck, and pressure the puck in all 3 zones. I don't want a one dimensional offensive center for the 2nd line. A good defensive center who can put up 50 points is a better player than a poor defensive center who can score 70 points.

Bill Meltzer: Meltzer's Musings: Couturier, Flyers Alumni Camp Schedule and More
- bmeltzer

The Handzus-Couturier comparison is apt, and Couturier does need to be better in terms of converting the chances he gets. There's no argument there.

But at the same time, we have yet to see Couturier get time on a line with guys like Recchi and LeClair, as was pointed out. He plays on an inconsistent 2nd PP, in a spot that doesn't really lend to his strengths.

As far as the usage goes, I just want to see Couturier get a more balanced role. At the crossroads of development and winning, I want to see development-not just of Couturier & Schenn, but of Laughton & other kids-take precedence

Listening to Wayne Simmonds on Toronto radio right now. Said Hakstol came up to Toronto to meet with him to discuss his role.
Looks like new coach has made the rounds of getting to know his star players 1-1

One difference that stands out to me when comparing Couturier and Handzus is strength. Handzus was a very strong player and very hard to knock off the puck. I think Couturier could really benefit by adding another 10-12 pounds of muscle to his frame.
- BiggE

I think that comes with age. We are comparing a 25 year old Handzus to a 22 year old Couts.. Give Couts 3 years and watch the player he becomes. I really think he is gonna be a true force.

Briere was a great clutch scorer, but he was also a threat to be scored upon. I want all 4 center to be solid two way players. Just as you pointed out that when Handzus played it was a clutch and grab era, today's game is a 200 foot game. Need every line to be able to play both sides of the puck, and pressure the puck in all 3 zones. I don't want a one dimensional offensive center for the 2nd line. A good defensive center who can put up 50 points is a better player than a poor defensive center who can score 70 points.
- MJL

Bill Meltzer: Meltzer's Musings: Couturier, Flyers Alumni Camp Schedule and More
- bmeltzer

Bill why do you think #14 has barely scratched the surface of his capabilities?

he is 4 years into his career. that's a stretch to make that statement imo.

I think that comes with age. We are comparing a 25 year old Handzus to a 22 year old Couts.. Give Couts 3 years and watch the player he becomes. I really think he is gonna be a true force.
- jak521

I agree, and I've been one of Couturier's biggest supporters around here since he was an 18 year old kid. I think JSaq hit the nail on the head: lets give Couturier 2 quality offensive wingers before we make final judgement on what he can and can't do offensively.

I agree, and I've been one of Couturier's biggest supporters around here since he was an 18 year old kid. I think JSaq hit the nail on the head: lets give Couturier 2 quality offensive wingers before we make final judgement on what he can and can't do offensively.
- BiggE

read is a quality winger no?

Bill why do you think #14 has barely scratched the surface of his capabilities?

he is 4 years into his career. that's a stretch to make that statement imo.
- rinaldo

probably because he is only 22, and really has been asked to perform within a certain role. Now his role is being expanded.. He has very high potential. People forget that he was probably one less bout with mono away from being a top 3 pick.


The idea that guys routinely come into the league and dominate just isnt accurate. Let the kids grow into his spot.. He is already one of the best young defensive centers in the league, and the team really hasnt even asked him to be a serious offensive contributor yet.

read is a quality winger no?
- rinaldo

Healthy Read is, yes. Injured Read.. meh.

By the time Couts is 25, I see him as a perennial Selke nominee in this league. We'll be happy we have him on such a steal of a contract.

probably because he is only 22, and really has been asked to perform within a certain role. Now his role is being expanded.. He has very high potential. People forget that he was probably one less bout with mono away from being a top 3 pick.


The idea that guys routinely come into the league and dominate just isnt accurate. Let the kids grow into his spot.. He is already one of the best young defensive centers in the league, and the team really hasnt even asked him to be a serious offensive contributor yet.
- jak521

thanks bill. So then if he has only scratched the surface than do you believe he will be this elite level perennial all star type player?

in bold is total BS.

Was Handzus thrust into the NHL at 18? The Flyers organization shoulders some of the blame here, too.

Healthy Read is, yes. Injured Read.. meh.
- jak521

you can say that about any player who is injured can you not?

it is possible that 14 has held read back offensively.

Was Handzus thrust into the NHL at 18? The Flyers organization shoulders some of the blame here, too.
- Quetzalcoatl

indeed they do. they pigeon hold him into a position that he handled well. though it also could have stunt his growth in other areas. areas which he may not be able to recover.

thanks bill. So then if he has only scratched the surface than do you believe he will be this elite level perennial all star type player?

in bold is total BS.
- rinaldo

Just lending my opinion ace.

I dont think he will ever be an "elite level perennial all star type player"

He is what he is. I think being a bigger, stronger, defensively prominent center who can pot 50-60 points (where I think he ends up) is sufficient enough.

As for the total BS. Its not at all. He has been asked, and has performed in a defense over offense role. He isnt asked to go out and be a true offensive catalyst... BUT, he has been asked to go out and stop the best offensive catalysts.

Bill why do you think #14 has barely scratched the surface of his capabilities?

he is 4 years into his career. that's a stretch to make that statement imo.
- rinaldo

Not a stretch at all:

1) He was in the NHL at age 18 and is still only 22. It's an apples-to-oranges comparison but Shayne Gostisbehere -- still considered a prospect because he's in his second pro year -- is also 22. Patrick Sharp at age 24 was still trying to establish himself as an NHL regular.

2) Most forwards, on average, hit their primes between ages 24-27.

3) Couturier has gradually improved on a year-to-year basis. Although he has yet to take a big leap, he also has yet to level off.

4) As I wrote in today's blog, a player doesn't lead even a major junior league in scoring and average a point-per-game in the AHL if he lacks offensve ability. Couturier's issue is really one of offensive confidence and learning how to produce NHL offensive while still remaining strong defensively. That balance takes time to strike.

5) There's a host of players in hockey history who did not emerge offensively until they got a little bit older. Couturier still has room to add some more muscle, for one thing.

6) In the course of his NHL career to date, Couturier has had annual offensive hot streaks of about 3-to-5 games at a time. The problem has been that when he goes into droughts, they tend to be prolonged. That is where experience, confidence, etc. can start to pay dividends.

Great job here Bill.

Although stating that the flyers are hamstrung by the cap is largely conjecture

My opinion is handzus is really the perfect comp player to couturier. Coots has much work to do to be the kind of offensive threat handzus was when he was a flyer

you can say that about any player who is injured can you not?

it is possible that 14 has held read back offensively.
- rinaldo

It would be a hard question to answer given that Read has been a model of consistency aside from his injured year.

Its not as if he was a 20/20 guy on one line and then, POOF he is a 15/15 guy with Couts.