I think they think more highly of Schultz than as just a 3rd pairing guy. I think they like him in a "Jason Smith in 2008" kind of way.
- johndewar

Wasn't Jason Smith in 2008 a 3rd pairing guy? And one of the better on-ice leaders in the game?

Just thinking of something, but aren't Manning and Schenn both 25? So if people think Manning can keep developing how comes Schenn can't?
- J35Bacher

Both are still fairly young for defenseman, but are also rapidly approching the point where odds are what you see, is what you get.

no they don't needBryce.

Hagg is a prospect. manning is not. do you not know the difference between the 2 in that aspect? who said it is wasting time and effort. manning wont pan out as an nhl everyday dman. it wasn't a waste of time or effort.
- rinaldo

I'm aware of the difference. It's called hyperbole.

My exaggeration was due to you initially responding as if you didn't even read my post. I'm piggy-backing off of PSG's comment about the Flyers taking a 'developing year' approach to the '15-'16 season. We're so used to the Flyers being a contending team that I would agree that they typically wouldn't have the time to see if it clicks with a certain player (Manning) and deal with the ups and downs. They need the most sure thing to make the playoffs and make a run.

I view this year differently. I don't see them contending, so why not take the year and see what you have with a player like Manning. I don't get what's so hard to comprehend there. Let's not kid ourselves and believe the D would fall apart without Luke Schenn. He's a 5-6, who in very limited moments can cast as a 4.

Personally I don't see how some can even see Schenn as a sure thing. Only year he's been solid throughout was when he was anchored to Kimmo.

Just not sure why Umberger and VL were options but Akeson wasn't. He played well in the playoffs and was a point per game player at LHV. Thought he deserved a shot on a team that needed a skill set like his. Particularly on that second PP unit.

Even if you feel confident in something, you still don't know for sure until you give the player a chance. That's mainly my point.
- PhillySportsGuy

It's not just how I feel.

Every team passed over him when he was waived to LHV. So no other NHL teams thought much either.

I'm tied up at work right now, but it's a very good question and I'd like to pick this up later, if that's ok?
- TheGreat28

I think they think more highly of Schultz than as just a 3rd pairing guy. I think they like him in a "Jason Smith in 2008" kind of way.
- johndewar

Flyers need 7 veteran defenseman to make sure the wheels don't come off when Ghost and Morin make a mistake

Both are still fairly young for defenseman, but are also rapidly approching the point where odds are what you see, is what you get.
- MJL

And I think your right.

Also fair or not Schenn will probably get more of a chance then Manning. As someone they traded for and former 1st rounder they want to make sure they exhaust all chances before giving up on him and then seeing him play well somewhere else.

A guy like manning can probably be found next off season or possibly a College FA type signing.

It's not just how I feel.

Every team passed over him when he was waived to LHV. So no other NHL teams thought much either.
- J35Bacher

Briere cleared waivers a bunch of times too during his Coyotes days. Teams are usually up against the cap or have a limited number of roster spots available. They don't like to use one on a shot in the dark type player in season.

Flyers need 7 veteran defenseman to make sure the wheels don't come off when Ghost and Morin make a mistake
- PhillySportsGuy

They have so far:

Del Zotto
Schultz
Schenn
Medvedev
Streit
MacDonald
Manning


Any of these guys can get injured in camp. Also if Morin or Provorov play well enough to make the roster, Schultz's contract can be moved. It's not a huge amount and teams need quality defenseman.

I think the argument is more about finality. If you play guys like Gus, Akeson and Manning for an extended period of time, you can definitively say whether they belong or not.

No one is saying any of them will work out. We're saying they should be given an opportunity especially when the incumbents aren't particularly good or part of the future.

I'm not really a Manning guy. I just hate seeing veterans on a bad-mediocre team continue to play when you have an opportunity to find out about other players in the system.
- PhillySportsGuy

I think fans have a different perspective than the professional hockey people who are running the teams. Fans need to see a player in the NHL to figure out if they belong or not. Pro scouts, NHL GM's and pro personell professionals can watch players play at other levels, and determine whether they think they are NHL material or not. They can't do it to a level of infallibility, but they can do so with a high percentage of being right. Of course there are always players that fall through the cracks, where a team made the wrong judgement. Lastly, I think the fact that they signed Manning to a one way deal, for decent money, shows that they think he can provide depth and could play a 3rd pair role and hold his own if they had to play him.

Briere cleared waivers a bunch of times too during his Coyotes days. Teams are usually up against the cap or have a limited number of roster spots available. They don't like to use one on a shot in the dark type player in season.
- PhillySportsGuy

Your right.

I also stated there will always be exceptions.

St. Louis was another exception.

But Briere and St.Louis could skate pretty well. As a small guy like Akeson, usually being slow isn't a good thing.

They have so far:

Del Zotto
Schultz
Schenn
Medvedev
Streit
MacDonald
Manning


Any of these guys can get injured in camp. Also if Morin or Provorov play well enough to make the roster, Schultz's contract can be moved. It's not a huge amount and teams need quality defenseman.
- J35Bacher

Feel like I've heard this before

They have so far:

Del Zotto
Schultz
Schenn
Medvedev
Streit
MacDonald
Manning


Any of these guys can get injured in camp. Also if Morin or Provorov play well enough to make the roster, Schultz's contract can be moved. It's not a huge amount and teams need quality defenseman.
- J35Bacher

Now that Morin is into his ELC, Provorov would have a hell of a time making the team this year. He doesn't just have to be one of their top-6 defensemen, he needs to really excel and stand out, to the point where he's one of their top-3 defenseman.

Feel like I've heard this before
- PhillySportsGuy

haha

It will look good when the cap goes up next year.

Briere cleared waivers a bunch of times too during his Coyotes days. Teams are usually up against the cap or have a limited number of roster spots available. They don't like to use one on a shot in the dark type player in season.
- PhillySportsGuy

great example. one in how many pan out like that?

I think fans have a different perspective than the professional hockey people who are running the teams. Fans need to see a player in the NHL to figure out if they belong or not. Pro scouts, NHL GM's and pro personell professionals can watch players play at other levels, and determine whether they think they are NHL material or not. They can't do it to a level of infallibility, but they can do so with a high percentage of being right. Of course there are always players that fall through the cracks, where a team made the wrong judgement. Lastly, I think the fact that they signed Manning to a one way deal, for decent money, shows that they think he can provide depth and could play a 3rd pair role and hold his own if they had to play him.
- MJL

Also conveniently it is below the amount that moves off the cap if sent down. So they showed some confidence but they also kept themselves safe that nothing is one the cap if they send him down

Wasn't Jason Smith in 2008 a 3rd pairing guy? And one of the better on-ice leaders in the game?
- jmatchett383

Don't quite remember where they slotted Smith....but Schultz actually comes with a pretty good rep as an on-ice leader, as well. Maybe not as physical as Jason Smith (dude was as tough as they come), but Schultz is considered a good veteran presence to have around.

I'm not gonna argue that one. Schultz didn't really show me much other than to not be a complete (frank)-up, which is why he looked like one of our best defensemen. He also seemed to take a nose dive late in the season. I feel that the step from Schultz to Manning is incredibly small.
- jmatchett383

Play Manning in the same role and same situations that Schultz played in last season, and I think you'll find that the step from Schultz to Manning is rather large.

Flyers need 7 veteran defenseman to make sure the wheels don't come off when Ghost and Morin make a mistake
- PhillySportsGuy

I think fans have a different perspective than the professional hockey people who are running the teams. Fans need to see a player in the NHL to figure out if they belong or not. Pro scouts, NHL GM's and pro personell professionals can watch players play at other levels, and determine whether they think they are NHL material or not. They can't do it to a level of infallibility, but they can do so with a high percentage of being right. Of course there are always players that fall through the cracks, where a team made the wrong judgement. Lastly, I think the fact that they signed Manning to a one way deal, for decent money, shows that they think he can provide depth and could play a 3rd pair role and hold his own if they had to play him.
- MJL

Just don't understand why a team would take the chance of making a mistake when they literally have nothing to lose by playing these players.

I think fans have a different perspective than the professional hockey people who are running the teams. Fans need to see a player in the NHL to figure out if they belong or not. Pro scouts, NHL GM's and pro personell professionals can watch players play at other levels, and determine whether they think they are NHL material or not. They can't do it to a level of infallibility, but they can do so with a high percentage of being right. Of course there are always players that fall through the cracks, where a team made the wrong judgement. Lastly, I think the fact that they signed Manning to a one way deal, for decent money, shows that they think he can provide depth and could play a 3rd pair role and hold his own if they had to play him.
- MJL[/quote]
good post.

or give him a good pay day for being a good soldier who will mentor the young guys at LHV

I just hate when people claim a guy needs a shot. If a guy has NHL shills and attributes he will get an NHL spot.

I was never an Akeson fan. I know he had skill but I think he was slower then Couturier and was small. If your going to be small you better be able to fly. Also I think they have someone like that now in Martel. Small, skilled but he can absolutely fly though. Also I think he plays a more edgy game where he can be effective on the PK and bottom 6 if he makes the NHL someday.
- J35Bacher

People looked at a very small sample size with Akeson and got all excited. Same happened with umpteen players over the years. Before that it was Laurdisen who could come in and take over and be a better player. Akeson is likely going to be a career minor leaguer. He just doesn't have the wheels or size, and he won't score enough at the NHL level to have value in the lineup.

Now that Morin is into his ELC, Provorov would have a hell of a time making the team this year. He doesn't just have to be one of their top-6 defensemen, he needs to really excel and stand out, to the point where he's one of their top-3 defenseman.
- jmatchett383

I agree.

I think he'll have a tough time. Needs to be a top 4 to stay. I just think him and Morin have best chances of prospects.

Gostisberhere- probably needs time to get back to game speed with knee injury last season

Sanheim - Still needs to fill out more, also wants chance at World Juniors.

Alt - Injuries last season

Hagg - More consistency needs to be shown

Just don't understand why a team would take the chance of making a mistake when they literally have nothing to lose by playing these players.
- PhillySportsGuy

Because they have a lot to lose by playing those players. They don't have the mindset that you have in regards to the upcoming season.

Just don't understand why a team would take the chance of making a mistake when they literally have nothing to lose by playing these players.
- PhillySportsGuy

But with Manning he is 25. This isn't some 18 year old. I think they have seen enough to make a good guess on his NHL production and value.