Was Handzus thrust into the NHL at 18? The Flyers organization shoulders some of the blame here, too.
- Quetzalcoatl

He wasn't and, yes, coming too quickly to the NHL can absolutely hinder a player's development even if he does find another niche and has a long career. Dainius Zubrus was the poster boy for that phenomenon.

However, I do think Couturier is very capable of at least doing what Handzus did in his best years in Philly.

You also hit on the berube point. He used coots perfectly last year to give the flyers the best chance to win

thanks bill. So then if he has only scratched the surface than do you believe he will be this elite level perennial all star type player?

in bold is total BS.
- rinaldo

No, "barely scratched the surface" means that he's capable of being a Selke Trophy candidate who can also be a 20-24 goal, 50-point player.

read is a quality winger no?
- rinaldo

Read is a solid winger, but would you really call him a top notch offensive player on the level of a Mark Recchi? Also Read is one winger, I'd like to see the other winger be at least as talented, if not more so, than Matt Read.

He wasn't and, yes, coming too quickly to the NHL can absolutely hinder a player's development even if he does find another niche and has a long career. Dainius Zubrus was the poster boy for that phenomenon.

However, I do think Couturier is very capable of at least doing what Handzus did in his best years in Philly.
- bmeltzer

I think a good bench mark to reach for Couts this year is 200 shots on net.

If he can do that at the same shooting % as last season, he will eclipse 20 goals. Also, shooting the puck also creates assists..

If Couts can add 6 goals and 7 assists this year and finish at 50 points while still contributing defensively, that will be a great step. I personally think he is more than capable of doing that at least.

Just lending my opinion ace.

I dont think he will ever be an "elite level perennial all star type player"

He is what he is. I think being a bigger, stronger, defensively prominent center who can pot 50-60 points (where I think he ends up) is sufficient enough.

As for the total BS. Its not at all. He has been asked, and has performed in a defense over offense role. He isnt asked to go out and be a true offensive catalyst... BUT, he has been asked to go out and stop the best offensive catalysts.
- jak521

I agree with this 100%!

I believe that Couturier, if used properly and given quality wingers, can be a 20+ goal, 50+ point player who will be in the Selke conversation every year. IMO, that is a quality #2 center.

Not a stretch at all:

1) He was in the NHL at age 18 and is still only 22. It's an apples-to-oranges comparison but Shayne Gostisbehere -- still considered a prospect because he's in his second pro year -- is also 22. Patrick Sharp at age 24 was still trying to establish himself as an NHL regular.

2) Most forwards, on average, hit their primes between ages 24-27.

3) Couturier has gradually improved on a year-to-year basis. Although he has yet to take a big leap, he also has yet to level off.

4) As I wrote in today's blog, a player doesn't lead even a major junior league in scoring and average a point-per-game in the AHL if he lacks offensve ability. Couturier's issue is really one of offensive confidence and learning how to produce NHL offensive while still remaining strong defensively. That balance takes time to strike.

5) There's a host of players in hockey history who did not emerge offensively until they got a little bit older. Couturier still has room to add some more muscle, for one thing.

6) In the course of his NHL career to date, Couturier has had annual offensive hot streaks of about 3-to-5 games at a time. The problem has been that when he goes into droughts, they tend to be prolonged. That is where experience, confidence, etc. can start to pay dividends.
- bmeltzer

I am not looking at his age per say. yes he is young though has already had 4 nhl years under his belt. Sure he can get much better and take that leap. He has scratched the surface as he is 30 point+ player who plays good defensively.


edit: saw your response above.

No, "barely scratched the surface" means that he's capable of being a Selke Trophy candidate who can also be a 20-24 goal, 50-point player.
- bmeltzer

ok, that is a little different imo then how I was reading it. time will tell. maybe he buckles under all the pressure of a new contract. maybe he rises.

Great job here Bill.

Although stating that the flyers are hamstrung by the cap is largely conjecture

My opinion is handzus is really the perfect comp player to couturier. Coots has much work to do to be the kind of offensive threat handzus was when he was a flyer
- Just5

I agree with this 100%!

I believe that Couturier, if used properly and given quality wingers, can be a 20+ goal, 50+ point player who will be in the Selke conversation every year. IMO, that is a quality #2 center.
- BiggE

not every player is "given" quality wingers. he needs to make his wingers better which he has yet to do.

give most centers quality wingers and they stand a good chance to produce.

Read is a solid winger, but would you really call him a top notch offensive player on the level of a Mark Recchi? Also Read is one winger, I'd like to see the other winger be at least as talented, if not more so, than Matt Read.
- BiggE

no not a recchi or even close to it. to say read isn't a quality winger though is false imo.

He wasn't and, yes, coming too quickly to the NHL can absolutely hinder a player's development even if he does find another niche and has a long career. Dainius Zubrus was the poster boy for that phenomenon.

However, I do think Couturier is very capable of at least doing what Handzus did in his best years in Philly.
- bmeltzer

I think there's more offence their for sure....I would love to see him with more pp time, I think as his body matures so will his scoring. I also think Laughton has way more upside then what most give him credit for. This kid was a prodogy when coming up through the MTHL and really found his game in the OHL....He plays the game the right way...he's a leader ....a heart and soul guy...Leier is th cut from the same cloth, but not as talented...you can sure tell the way the flyers draft, to what they feel is important.

not every player is "given" quality wingers. he needs to make his wingers better which he has yet to do.

give most centers quality wingers and they stand a good chance to produce.
- rinaldo

Im less inclined to talk about quality wingers, and more inclined to take into consideration the way he is deployed.

This year is gonna be a big one for him. Like I said earlier.. points shouldnt be his concern. Shots should. If he just hits 200 shots he should be a 20 goal scorer at least. If he hits 250 (which will be tough for him), he could be a 25+ goal scorer.

Focus on getting pucks to the net, and continue to be a strong net front center and he will be fine from an offensive prospective. It takes a (n) (offensively) confident player to shoot the puck 200+ times.

no not a recchi or even close to it. to say read isn't a quality winger though is false imo.
- rinaldo

If he gets a full year with Read and say, Schenn or Simmer... there is no reason he shouldnt crack 20 goals 25 assists.

If he gets a full year with Read and say, Schenn or Simmer... there is no reason he shouldnt crack 20 goals 25 assists.
- jak521

Come on, he's 22 years old and has already played 4 seasons. He'll never get any better at all.

Total bust. HATE HATE HATE!

- BiggE

That's a lot of hyperbole in there. We need to stick to the facts.

Come on, he's 22 years old and has already played 4 seasons. He'll never get any better at all.

Total bust. HATE HATE HATE!
- jmatchett383

he will have a breakout year. 70 points and win the selke.

he will have a breakout year. 70 points and win the selke.
- rinaldo

Terrible, terrible player. If he cracks 10 goals, I'll be astounded. What a horrible contract.

If Handzus could be a 23-goal scorer in the so-called dead puck era

Handzus scored 23 goals in 02-03 when he was 25 years old. The 02-03 Flyers scored 2.57 goals per game.

The 14-15 Flyers scored 2.58 goals per game, so the puck was just as dead. The obvious difference was that Couturier was three years younger.

Handzus scored 23 goals in 02-03 when he was 25 years old. The 02-03 Flyers scored 2.57 goals per game.

The 14-15 Flyers scored 2.58 goals per game, so the puck was just as dead. The obvious difference was that Couturier was three years younger.
- Feanor

Handzus also scored 25 goals as a 21 yoa...

The biggest thing that's going to help his offense is probably usage

not every player is "given" quality wingers. he needs to make his wingers better which he has yet to do.

give most centers quality wingers and they stand a good chance to produce.
- rinaldo

The combination of a lack of offensive talent on the wings, the most starts in the D zone of any center on the team, playing the most minutes on the PK and spending most of each and every game matched up against the opponents top line is really not the best method for developing a young players offensive game.

No one is saying that Sean Couturier is going to go out and score 35 goals and 80 points, but is it really so far fetched to think that giving him a bit more talent on the wings, a few less D zone starts and finding another line that can match up against the opponents top line now and then won't allow him to score 6-8 more goals and 15-18 more points per season?

The combination of a lack of offensive talent on the wings, the most starts in the D zone of any center on the team, playing the most minutes on the PK and spending most of each and every game matched up against the opponents top line is really not the best method for developing a young players offensive game.

No one is saying that Sean Couturier is going to go out and score 35 goals and 80 points, but is it really so far fetched to think that giving him a bit more talent on the wings, a few less D zone starts and finding another line that can match up against the opponents top line now and then won't allow him to score 6-8 more goals and 15-18 more points per season?
- BiggE

Wait, people are NOT saying he's going to score 35 goals and 80 points while winning the Selke, Hart, and Vezina!?!? Then why the hell would we sign him to such an absurd contract?

The combination of a lack of offensive talent on the wings, the most starts in the D zone of any center on the team, playing the most minutes on the PK and spending most of each and every game matched up against the opponents top line is really not the best method for developing a young players offensive game.

No one is saying that Sean Couturier is going to go out and score 35 goals and 80 points, but is it really so far fetched to think that giving him a bit more talent on the wings, a few less D zone starts and finding another line that can match up against the opponents top line now and then won't allow him to score 6-8 more goals and 15-18 more points per season?
- BiggE

no it isn't as 15 points could be accomplished. we shall see. as bill said at some point he has to look in the mirror. tired of the wingers excuse. maybe read would produce more with a better center.

Handzus also scored 25 goals as a 21 yoa...

The biggest thing that's going to help his offense is probably usage
- Just5

He did, but I have no idea how he was used in St Louis.

The bigger point is that we are in a new dead puck era with very limited PP opportunities compared to the seasons just after the 04-05 lockout because the league stopped calling interference.

http://www.quanthockey.com/TS/TS_GoalsPerGame.php

2002-03 average goals per game = 5.309
2014-14 average goals per game = 5.324

Out of curiosity, do we know who the 3C is going to be?

Also, do you guys think if Couturier has a rough October/November, does he drop down to the 3rd line? Or do you think Hakstol let's him play his way through it?

I'm not suggesting Couturier is on a short leash. Just want to heat your take on the possibility of Couturier struggling to find his offensive game.