You can have that opinion, but it's wrong. It's definitely one of the key variables in the trade.

The latter is just speculation on your part.

So to summarize why I think your opinion on the trade is off base. Dismissing or refusing to consider the future cap gains, and pure speculation.
- MJL

I am not dismissing it at all. I just don't think it played a factor in this trade at all.

ok. I disagree. he could have been moved rather easily.
- rinaldo

Ok.

If you say so. I guess no trade clauses don't work in your world.

I agree, and it's not just position wise. It's skill set wise. Flyers need to tweak the mix and add some more speed, quickness, and creativity to the lineup.

The player I'd look to trade in the right deal, and I emphasize in the right deal, would be B Schenn. I'm not looking to trade him due to losing patience.
- MJL

I'm not opposed to trading Schenn for a high-end LW. I think there is more risk in trading Schenn because his upside is less predictable at this point. It could easily turn into another JVR for Luke trade. I also still think he deserves a shot at Center, though I know you don't agree with that.

I'd first look to trade Laughton. The return might not be as high, but teams are also not going to trade the level of LW that I'd need back for Schenn - an Ehlers, Duclair, or Fiala type player.

Make a roster move mid season with players not playing up to their potential so the team stays in the playoff hunt. Sure a draft pick here and there might get used but you can always reaquire them. A guy like Matt Read in the right deal I believe brings a return that shakes up the group and helps the team at the same time, especially if he is only hurting the team at times.
- SuperSchennBros

Read had an injury, and it would have been an awful move to trade Read simply because he was having a poor season due to injury. I fully expect Read to be back to his old self this upcoming season, and again show how important of a player he is to this team.

But he was hurt. He would have been sold low.

Now I am all for moving Read in the right deal but i would rather have him playing better that the value coming back is better.
- J35Bacher

Some may have been injuries, others all mental. I sat 12 rows from Matt Read on Scott Hartnell night in Columbus where he tripped over his own skates on a simple clear at the blue line that ended up in the back of our net. I like Read and he is an important player for the Flyers when he's playing his game but have we seen his ceiling yet or is that it? He's the eldest of the young core.

I am not dismissing it at all. I just don't think it played a factor in this trade at all.
- rinaldo

That's dismissing it, because it's obvious that future cap flexibility was a big part of the trade. Thinking it didn't play a factor in the trade is the equivalent of sticking your head in the sand.

Ok.

If you say so. I guess no trade clauses don't work in your world.
- J35Bacher

so if you say no he cant moved that is ok. because you say so.

yeah no guy with a ntc has ever been moved. does it make it harder? yes no poop. doesn't mean he still cant be moved rather easily does it? no it doesn't.

Some may have been injuries, others all mental. I sat 12 rows from Matt Read on Scott Hartnell night in Columbus where he tripped over his own skates on a simple clear at the blue line that ended up in the back of our net. I like Read and he is an important player for the Flyers when he's playing his game but have we seen his ceiling yet or is that it? He's the eldest of the young core.
- SuperSchennBros

Doesn't matter if we've seen his ceiling, as long as he returns to his form of the previous 3 seasons.

so if you say no he cant moved that is ok. because you say so.

yeah no guy with a ntc has ever been moved. does it make it harder? yes no poop. doesn't mean he still cant be moved rather easily does it? no it doesn't.
- rinaldo

Whats a strap job? Asking for a friend (S2TP)

Some may have been injuries, others all mental. I sat 12 rows from Matt Read on Scott Hartnell night in Columbus where he tripped over his own skates on a simple clear at the blue line that ended up in the back of our net. I like Read and he is an important player for the Flyers when he's playing his game but have we seen his ceiling yet or is that it? He's the eldest of the young core.
- SuperSchennBros

I agree.

I am not as huge on Read as MJL.

I know the value he brings but he will be turning 30 I believe and would mind moving him around the deadline to a contender to get younger. I still think the Flyers about 2 years from really making noise.

That's dismissing it, because it's obvious that future cap flexibility was a big part of the trade. Thinking it didn't play a factor in the trade is the equivalent of sticking your head in the sand.
- MJL

if you believe that then sure.
how many other teams have traded a top line winger for cap relief 3 years down the line? a player on a good deal, not showing signs of declining. I would be curious to see that who.

so you don't think hextall jumped the gun on this trade when it happened?

I'm not opposed to trading Schenn for a high-end LW. I think there is more risk in trading Schenn because his upside is less predictable at this point. It could easily turn into another JVR for Luke trade. I also still think he deserves a shot at Center, though I know you don't agree with that.

I'd first look to trade Laughton. The return might not be as high, but teams are also not going to trade the level of LW that I'd need back for Schenn - an Ehlers, Duclair, or Fiala type player.
- TheGreat28

If I can get a player the equivalent age and upside of Laughton, I wouldn't be against that. Same with Schenn, not giving them away, or dealing them because I don't think they're good players. More than anything, I want them to put Schenn in a spot and leave him there.

if you believe that then sure.
how many other teams have traded a top line winger for cap relief 3 years down the line? a player on a good deal, not showing signs of declining. I would be curious to see that who.

so you don't think hextall jumped the gun on this trade when it happened?
- rinaldo

Part of being a GM is anticipating and looking at the future.

Like I said previously, I think there is some merit to thinking that he could've waited some. I think that because I'm being objective and trying to look at all sides, rather than just ignoring a factor.

Whats a strap job? Asking for a friend (S2TP)
- PhillySportsGuy

google is your friend.

Part of being a GM is anticipating and looking at the future.

Like I said previously, I think there is some merit to thinking that he could've waited some. I think that because I'm being objective and trying to look at all sides, rather than just ignoring a factor.
- MJL

yes it is looking at the future. I don't disagree 1 bit. again not ignoring it. just don't think it played no where near as big a factor as you do is all.

I still think you see either B. Schenn or Gagner, if he comes out and plays well, traded for a legit top 6 LW.
- BiggE

I commented on Schenn on MJL's reply, but Gagner is certainly a candidate to be traded if he performs well. And potentially a contending team may be interested. But he's also on an expiring contract so that might dampen the return. But he more than likely does not fit into their long-term plans anyway so he's an obvious candidate.

I guess we'll see.

so if you say no he cant moved that is ok. because you say so.

yeah no guy with a ntc has ever been moved. does it make it harder? yes no poop. doesn't mean he still cant be moved rather easily does it? no it doesn't.
- rinaldo

And if he says it's only Columbus how easy is it?

And if he says it's only Columbus how easy is it?
- J35Bacher

then maybe you say no and wait it out. that is also a possibility is it not?

yes it is looking at the future. I don't disagree 1 bit. again not ignoring it. just don't think it played no where near as big a factor as you do is all.
- rinaldo

Well we're making some progress. Now you've gone from it not being a factor at all, to it not being near as big of a factor as I do.


I will ask you one simple hypothetical question. If there is no salary cap, do you think that Hextall still trades Hartnell for Umberger. Credibility is on the line here!

I commented on Schenn on MJL's reply, but Gagner is certainly a candidate to be traded if he performs well. And potentially a contending team may be interested. But he's also on an expiring contract so that might dampen the return. But he more than likely does not fit into their long-term plans anyway so he's an obvious candidate.

I guess we'll see.
- TheGreat28

I don't know.

If he can play well for them he could make a case to stick around. He's only 26. I think the problem would be the next contract. His cap is 4 something now. I think I would feel better if there was a way to lower that cap hit.

I don't know.

If he can play well for them he could make a case to stick around. He's only 26. I think the problem would be the next contract. His cap is 4 something now. I think I would feel better if there was a way to lower that cap hit.
- J35Bacher

Gagner's cap hit is 3.2M

google is your friend.
- rinaldo

How many women have you date raped?

then maybe you say no and wait it out. that is also a possibility is it not?
- rinaldo

Funny you want me to look at all variables.


It is.

Players like Hartnell can decline quickly. Yes he [played well this year compared to Umberger. But what value would Hartnell still have here. He probably could have scored 20 goals. Maybe they win a couple more games. I think hextall was taking the chance that by the time Hartntell would have those last two years he would not be as productive as he is now and would be harder to move when he needed some money.

How many women have you date raped?
- PhillySportsGuy

Honestly, what is the relevance of this question, and how is it an appropriate question for hockeybuzz?

Well we're making some progress. Now you've gone from it not being a factor at all, to it not being near as big of a factor as I do.


I will ask you one simple hypothetical question. If there is no salary cap, do you think that Hextall still trades Hartnell for Umberger. Credibility is on the line here!
- MJL

in theory no I would think he does not make that trade on the surface. though there could be other variables as you say that we are not privileged too correct?

my street cred is good. ask anyone down K&A