Gagner's cap hit is 3.2M
- MJL

Your right.

My apologies.

Again it would depend on the next contract but if he can show to be a solid RW I nmight be inclined to keep him. Especially if he plays with Couturier or someone and shows good chemistry.

Whats a strap job? Asking for a friend (S2TP)
- PhillySportsGuy

(seriously what is it?)

in theory no I would think he does not make that trade on the surface. though there could be other variables as you say that we are not privileged too correct?

my street cred is good. ask anyone down K&A
- rinaldo

Well then if you think he wouldn't have made the trade if there was no salary cap, then now you know how much of a factor cap implications were in making the deal. Now we've reached the end of the story!

Your right.

My apologies.

Again it would depend on the next contract but if he can show to be a solid RW I nmight be inclined to keep him. Especially if he plays with Couturier or someone and shows good chemistry.
- J35Bacher

No need for an apology!

Honestly, what is the relevance of this question, and how is it an appropriate question for hockeybuzz?
- MJL

How are a lot of these questions appropriate for hockeybuzz?

If I can get a player the equivalent age and upside of Laughton, I wouldn't be against that. Same with Schenn, not giving them away, or dealing them because I don't think they're good players. More than anything, I want them to put Schenn in a spot and leave him there.
- MJL

Completely agree on everything, but especially the bold.

Actually, I'd love for them to figure out some combinations in the pre-season and stick with them for the 1st 10 or 15 games, regardless of line and team success. Then level set. Berube bounced guys all over the place and I think it really played with their confidence.

When people say this is a throw-away year, I think this is part of it. Yes, they could fall so far behind out of the gate by giving guys a chance. But in the long run they have to see who is a keeper and what role can they play.

Funny you want me to look at all variables.


It is.

Players like Hartnell can decline quickly. Yes he
- J35Bacher[played well this year compared to Umberger. But what value would Hartnell still have here. He probably could have scored 20 goals. Maybe they win a couple more games. I think hextall was taking the chance that by the time Hartntell would have those last two years he would not be as productive as he is now and would be harder to move when he needed some money.

no hartnell played well this year compared to a lot of players in the league; his peers on the wing. comparing him to umberger is a disgrace.

my point has been all along is that they should have waited to trade him and go from there; not taking a stiff back to boot. i don't see his value declining by waiting < year to the point he is unmovable. also didn't don't think the cap savings down the rode played a part. if i am wrong so be it.

I didn't see the rush to get him out of here as fast as they did. so we are clear as this is all speculation on my part is that something went on behind the scenes that triggered this move.

(seriously what is it?)
- Streit2ThePoint

Apparently, it's *whispers in ear*

Well then if you think he wouldn't have made the trade if there was no salary cap, then now you know how much of a factor cap implications were in making the deal. Now we've reached the end of the story!
- MJL

because I don't think they wouldn't have made the trade doesn't mean hextall thinks that way. maybe he thought umberger fit the team better on how he wanted to build it. he liked umberger as player. he thought he was going to help.

yes end of story. next topic.

Apparently, it's *whispers in ear*
- PhillySportsGuy

because I don't think they wouldn't have made the trade doesn't mean hextall thinks that way. maybe he thought umberger fit the team better on how he wanted to build it. he liked umberger as player. he thought he was going to help.

yes end of story. next topic.
- rinaldo

None of us were in the room when the deal was discussed and agreed upon, so none of us can actually speak factually of what Hextall was thinking. What we can do however is look at all the possible factors, listen to what Hextall actually said in interviews, and make an educated and informed guess on why the trade was made. I think that is reasonable. I also think it's reasonable to look at the cap implications of the deal, especially when that factor has been discussed and referenced by numerous sources as a key part of why the deal was made. If you want to ignore that factor, and how things that happen in the future will impact how this deal ultimately is judged, than that's on you.

I don't disagree that part of it was Hextall liked Umberger as a player.

Apparently, it's *whispers in ear*
- PhillySportsGuy

Chase Utley, Hall of Fame? Yea or nay?

None of us were in the room when the deal was discussed and agreed upon, so none of us can actually speak factually of what Hextall was thinking. What we can do however is look at all the possible factors, listen to what Hextall actually said in interviews, and make an educated and informed guess on why the trade was made. I think that is reasonable. I also think it's reasonable to look at the cap implications of the deal, especially when that factor has been discussed and referenced by numerous sources as a key part of why the deal was made. If you want to ignore that factor, and how things that happen in the future will impact how this deal ultimately is judged, than that's on you.

I don't disagree that part of it was Hextall liked Umberger as a player.
- MJL

taking the cap relief 3 years down the line into account as a big factor. do you think this was a good trade?

I agree.

I am not as huge on Read as MJL.

I know the value he brings but he will be turning 30 I believe and would mind moving him around the deadline to a contender to get younger. I still think the Flyers about 2 years from really making noise.
- J35Bacher

I like Matt Read a lot but if he brings back a younger natural left wing with a responsible game, I'd do it.

Chase Utley, Hall of Fame? Yea or nay?
- MJL

As much as like the guy, he doesn't have Hall of Fame numbers. He will certainly go in the Phillies Hall of fame as soon as he retires though.

Chase Utley, Hall of Fame? Yea or nay?
- MJL

No.

As much as I like him, don't think he has the numbers.

I like Matt Read a lot but if he brings back a younger natural left wing with a responsible game, I'd do it.
- SuperSchennBros

Doubt Read will get you a better, younger LW in a deal. But if he could, sure, I'd make the deal.

taking the cap relief 3 years down the line into account as a big factor. do you think this was a good trade?
- rinaldo

I don't think a final judgement can be made yet. I think there are good and bad parts to it. This is the difference in a cap era that some fans don't want to grasp. Cap assets are as valuable as player assets in some situations.

Some may have been injuries, others all mental. I sat 12 rows from Matt Read on Scott Hartnell night in Columbus where he tripped over his own skates on a simple clear at the blue line that ended up in the back of our net. I like Read and he is an important player for the Flyers when he's playing his game but have we seen his ceiling yet or is that it? He's the eldest of the young core.
- SuperSchennBros

I've seen Giroux fall on his backside. I've heard about Giroux grabbing a backside. Does that mean we should trade him too?

Bottom line, there is NO trade that they can make before the season that will substantially change the fortunes of this team this year. The players that are being discussed as expendable are not going to bring back maximum returns. I don't want to sell low quite frankly.

More than likely their best option would be to start the season and then starting around the 1st of the year see where they are and re-balance the roster as necessary and as opportunities present themselves.

No.

As much as I like him, don't think he has the numbers.
- J35Bacher

He's not done yet, although he seems to be rapidly declining. Look at Biggio's numbers over 20 years, compared to Utley's over 13.

I like Matt Read a lot but if he brings back a younger natural left wing with a responsible game, I'd do it.
- SuperSchennBros

I would too.

I was actually hoping for something like Read for Burmistrov. A younger player who is also defensively responsible and I think has more upside and size.

We will see what happens this year. At the deadline if they are out they could have some good pieces to dangle to contenders. Schultz, Streit, L.Schenn, Read, Gagner, maybe they cang et a taker for MacDonald if he plays well. Maybe they move Simmonds for a huge package.

No clue yet as since this is a different regime, players that Holmgren might have deemed future pieces might have the same view to Hextall.

I don't think a final judgement can be made yet. I think there are good and bad parts to it. This is the difference in a cap era that some fans don't want to grasp. Cap assets are as valuable as player assets in some situations.
- MJL

what are the bad parts in your opinion?

I agree on guys who have bad deals like the 2 stiffs they have now. I don't think hartnells deal was bad by any means.

He's not done yet, although he seems to be rapidly declining. Look at Biggio's numbers over 20 years, compared to Utley's over 13.
- MJL

I know.

A lot depends on what happens next year. Does he go back to Dodgers? Does he go somewhere else.

Just right now my answer is no and I think it will be hard for him to get the numbers high enough to get in.

what are the bad parts in your opinion?

I agree on guys who have bad deals like the 2 stiffs they have now. I don't think hartnells deal was bad by any means.
- rinaldo

The obvious bad was that Hartnell was a much better player than Umberger was last season.