I think this as well, everything is relative, some say you can win a cup without Kane, maybe, but you have with Kane and you have a formula for it, that's why I think AA was brought here to compliment him.

Seeing what we got in return for Sharp, Leddy and so on over the past 5 years knowing we had to trade these guys did not overwhelmingly go in our favor, many didn't end up going in our favor at all, our best trade was Saad imo.

Highest paid player in the league, legal and integrity issues equals crappy return, or put another way I'll believe it when I see it, skeptical VERY
- BetweenTheDots

Kane is goimg nowhere unless the Hawks find a way to nullify his contract. If the Hawks don't want him why would any other NHL team possibly want to invest 80 million in Kane, much less give up anything for him? If Kane is a PR problem for the Hawks, then he'd be an even bigger PR problem for a team that traded for him at this point.

Define "major reporter." because I think by your definition, my original source on the Sharp to Toronto rumor (including the specifics I reported) would be a "major reporter." A very major reporter. That particular "major reporter" just doesn't go out with trade rumors. Not their thing.

Also, please tell me ONE GM who has inherited a core as good or better than:

Toews,
Kane,
Keith,
Hossa,
Seabrook,
Hjalmarsson,
Sharp

—all in or entering their primes.

Name one.
- John Jaeckel

Kopitar
Carter
Gaborik
Doughty
Brown (when his head is out of his ass)
Muzzin

LA doesn't have a seabrook but that's pretty damn close.

Ugh. This is such an uncomfortable situation for the Hawks. Let's assume Kane is innocent like Drew Doughty was (fingers crossed). The Hawks still can't be happy about the negative publicity and constant negative attention Kane is drawing. However, his on ice performance is so special, can you honestly deal him? The way I see it, the Hawks will never get full value for Kane in any trade because what "assurances" can they give that Kane will get his act together. And if he does straighten up, then why trade him away in the first place? The only trade in my fantasy world that makes sense is trade Kane, a proven scorer to Tampa for Stamkos straight up. Tampa gets a proven goal scorer who is under contract. The Hawks get cap relief this year and then can use the Kane money to sign Stamkos long term. Outside of that fantasy, I can't see the Hawks trading Kane and risking him hurting them in the playoffs or them losing a playoff series because he's gone. The only way I see Kane gone is if he's criminally charged and no longer plays in the NHL. Otherwise you have to hope he's innocent and just try to do anything you can internally to straighten him up. Kane equals wins and that's something the Hawks brass and their fans love and want. But anyway you shake it, the situation is bad, the outcomes will be controversial either way it goes, and all of this could and should have been avoided.

outstanding insight as usual Mexico. I think my greatest fear is Chicago winds up having to use an out clause like LA did with their two players on the grounds of a moral breach of contract and wines up getting rid of some pretty valuable chips. I can't imagine seeing Winnipeg with Crawford and Chicago with Pavelec in net. if Chicago is able to trade saad and bickell and somehow get back aa, Dano and Skinner Stan should get GM of the year. Mexico and JJ, question for you. What sort of timeframe do you see all of these moves potentially happening? immediate future or closer to camp?
- ikeane

oh my gawd....NO! But hey if it does happen the hawks will be testing the popular theory around this blog that any stiff could play goal and look good with this team in front him

Bowman hasn't had it ez and overall has been better than average but not as good as some who have had less to work with..

We can all disagree as to what was out there for Sharp but making the deal Bowman did cost the Hawks Oduya and possibly at least on other regular.

Oduya signed for same term left on Daley's deal for about $450k more... By not being able to shed Sharp's salary there were consequence...

So before he can be judged on this summer's dealing the players acquired from Dallas need to be evaluated. Maybe in the end it will all work out but the jury is still out.
- Al

Agree here Al and JJ...Bowman was handed a cup team in 2010 and has filled in nicely a couple of times. Personally I think his best move as a GM was the Saad trade. He didn't have a whole lot of time and made a really great move. I'm in JJ's camp as far as that Sharp could have/ should have been moved at the draft and it possibly cost them JO.

Meanwhile the Hawks will go on with or without Kane. If the Hawks add the right parts here after losing Kane there's no reason why they can't go on winning...and it sounds from what Mex is saying that's going to happen sooner than later. This summer is shaping up to be the defining moment in Bowman's tenure as Texas alludes to. While Stan has done a really nice job with the forwards Dano/TT/Panarin/AA...the defense is still a work in progress. And now we throw the Kane disaster into the pool...

Finally when does the other shoe drop...TG mentions the legal process and its taking time to play out as well as a scenario where the Hawks get caught in the switches where they can't play Kane but can't get rid of his cap hit...the process could take months with a prosecutor with what a 98% conviction rate and seeking higher office. He may eventually bring charges or not...

does anyone see Kane coming into camp or on the team before this is resolved one way or another?

Let me make a few remarks about all of the speculation and comments being made. First, a great thanks to JJ for being so talented and credible in the first place to HAVE SOURCES, these are people who wouldn't divulge private information to just anyone on the net...they do so to JJ because they know he is a very good ambassador for not only the Blackhawks, but for Hockey in general!

Now, as to JJ's rumours, I will say this once again, based on the amount of scenarios bantered about inside the offices of NHL GMs you could throw DARTS at the board and hit a discussed scenario! NHL GMs HAVE TO go over scenario after scenario to stay ahead of all that CAN happen at random when you are dealing with a team of 21+ human beings...sh$t happens.

The Canes are looking to move Jeff Skinner's contract, the Hawks are looking to move Bryan Bickell's contract...have they talked? MOST LIKELY YES, and indeed I can confirm that they have. Is a deal imminent between them? NO, there is simply too much up in the air for the Hawks right now. They need to either make a decision about Patrick Kane, or have a decision made for them before they do anything. But with LESS THAN A MONTH to the start of training camp, things are URGENT for the Hawks and they have feelers out EVERYWHERE in the hopes that they can get something done soon. Watch for it, as soon as something concrete is announced in the Kane matter the Hawks will make a move soon after. Right now, besides WPG and CAR, which JJ reported, the Hawks are STILL in contact with PHO, NJ and FLA about Bickell...those discussions a month earlier haven't just "gone away", anything is possible when it comes to Bryan Bickell and every line of conversation is being kept open!

I know for certain that WPG is prepared to deal with the Hawks on TWO different scenarios, one of which would include Bryan Bickell, and they don't really want him, so do the math on what would have to be included. As for the 2nd scenario, it involves Patrick Kane. WPG is one of those destinations that would accept Patrick Kane under the RIGHT circumstances, and they understand that a deal for Kane would likely mean he would miss part of the season! Someone asked yesterday "why would WPG be interested in CC when they have a good NHL prospect in waiting?" Really? You need to even ask this question? Why would Kevin Cheveldayoff still be interested in acquiring more Blackhawk players (like Andrew Ladd and Big Buff)? Gee, I don't know, maybe its because THEY KNOW HOW TO WIN AT THE HIGHEST LEVEL, and have been taught by the best coach in hockey? Have Ladd and Buff worked out well in WPG? What would acquiring Corey Crawford (and at the same time moving Pavelec) say to WPG fans? Maybe that we believe we can WIN NOW and Crawford knows a thing or two about winning Stanley Cups? No! The Jets have a 22 year old prospect who is the 2nd coming of Glen Hall...no issues there!

Even Bryan Bickell brings size, physicality, solid 2 way play, and toughness that any team can benefit from...add to the fact that Bickell has been on the roster for THREE Stanley Cups, and was a Conn Smythe finalist for one of them, and he's an ATTRACTIVE player! Certainly he has physical issues and his salary is high, but money can be taken back and there's only 2 years left on his deal, not like FOUR years on Skinner's massive deal!

JJ and I have had some discussions about this, and we both understand that the Hawks are in a tough spot right now, and as the defending Cup champions (and 3 in 6 years) they aren't going to receive any favours from anyone. Patrick Kane's actions (on the verge of his new massive deal set to kick in) were EXACTLY WHAT THE HAWKS DIDN'T NEED! And that statement goes far beyond just the speculation of whether he will be allowed to play or not! Right now, Bowman is going through scenarios where Kane will still be a Hawk but will have to miss part or all of the season, and whether his Cap hit can be removed or not. He is also going through a scenario where he will be ordered to TRADE Kane...and he is going through a scenario where Kane's contract is simply voided and he's released outright, because he can't play in the NHL (at least for a while). Do any of you actually think that Stan Bowman doesn't already have enough on his plate???

What some of you are incredibly still in denial over is the FACT that Kane could be not only suspended by the team or league, but could end up in JAIL! But it goes far, far beyond this discussion alone. Kane is now DAMAGED goods, regardless of how this all plays out. Before this mess, Kane was a young, talented player that showed up during crunch time...one of the most valuable commodities in the league and a player so good, that a few indiscretions could be overlooked. But now, he's a loose cannon and dangerous goods, because he is proving that he's not only dangerous to himself, but to others as well and NO TEAM will accept that without a STRICT and PUBLIC transformation! Kane is going to have to come public with his issues, go through some kind of "accepted" help program and be committed publicly to changing his life around! And believe me, this scenario is necessary in Chicago as well, if the Hawks decide to keep him!

Right now I am certain the Hawks are OPEN to both keeping and trading Kane away. Whether he stays or not will depend upon how the situation with the Police/Law turns out and how Kane decides to handle this. Because regardless of the perceived motives of the young woman involved, this is ALL on Patrick Kane. There have been TWO other incidents with Kane since 2012 that have not made the light of day, but that the Hawks are well aware of. How do you think Rocky and John feel about Kane in this precise moment with their GM already in dire straits with trying to fit a competitive team under the salary cap and two of their best players and perhaps best prospect already traded away??? Thrilled? Happy? Forgiving? Or perhaps angry and frustrated?

Understand the following, this is the "best scenario" for the Hawks with Kane. If Kane manages to avoid any legal charges against him and the Hawks decide to keep him after he agrees to come public with his problem(s) and pledges to change his lifestyle around, the Hawks are ONE more incident with Kane away from NOT BEING ABLE TO TRADE HIM FOR ANY VALUE, ever again! By keeping Kane they would be backing themselves into a corner that doesn't feature a way out...and this is the best scenario to boot. Is that the smart move?

Finally, if the Hawks do move Kane will they get equal value back for him? Of course not, there isn't another Patrick Kane out there! However, at this point, if Kane avoids criminal charges he STILL possesses significant value to a market that needs to win now...and those teams and owners EXIST! And as such, they have to give up value to get value. So to those who think that by trading Kane that the "Cup Days are over" in Chicago, think again. The heart and soul of this team has always been Jonathan Toews and the coaching of Joel Quenneville. As long as the Hawks add contributing pieces in any deal for Kane, they can still compete at the highest level. If the Hawks could trade Kane, for example, for Dustin Byfuglien and a TOP Jets prospect, how badly off would they be? A D core of Keith, Seabrook, Hammer, Buff, Daley and ANYBODY ELSE would be DOMINATING! And because Bowman has done so well in acquiring and developing the likes of Teravainen, Dano and Panarin, how badly off would our offence be when Q's system of offence is based upon forechecking, turnovers, and quick DZone breakouts? So if you choose to spout only "doom and gloom" over a possible Kane trade its only because you choose to...the Hawks can still win without Patrick Kane, but ONLY if there's value for trading him...and potentially there soon could be! And by keeping Kane, the Hawks risk NEVER again being able to trade him for any value...so again, which is the smart move?
- MexicoHawk

Mexico if this is true well then the Blackhawks organization is stupid. You're telling me there were other incidents that were swept under the rug with Kane and they signed him to this mega contract? If this is true then the Blackhawks got what they deserved, I find it really hard to believe they would be this dumb, very hard to believe

Kane is goimg nowhere unless the Hawks find a way to nullify his contract. If the Hawks don't want him why would any other NHL team possibly want to invest 80 million in Kane, much less give up anything for him? If Kane is a PR problem for the Hawks, then he'd be an even bigger PR problem for a team that traded for him at this point.
- Snowblind

I know of FIVE NHL teams that will take Patrick Kane should no criminal charges be filed, and Kane is prepared to make his transformation PUBLIC. So there very much IS a market for Kane, but the key is NO CRIMINAL CHARGES LAID.

Mexico if this is true well then the Blackhawks organization is stupid. You're telling me there were other incidents that were swept under the rug with Kane and they signed him to this mega contract? If this is true then the Blackhawks got what they deserved, I find it really hard to believe they would be this dumb, very hard to believe
- BetweenTheDots

This is absolutely true, and you are quite right that the Hawks left themselves open for something like this to happen, but there is NO WAY the Hawks "deserved" this...no one does, except the person making these conscious decisions.

Remember, I shared with every here a month ago that the Hawks WERE NOT UNIFIED on the Kane extension. The hockey people were unanimous, but Upper MGT was split with Rocky for and McDonough AGAINST! Kane is a generational player and as such his unique talent and propensity in the clutch make decisions like these ones anything but "cut and dried". The Hawks trusted in Kane and he let them down, that's it...you can't change the past, you can only ever deal with the present. So what do the Hawks decide now??? To trust him again, or to move on if they can?

There is hope for Patrick Kane as a person, I am certain that this experience will finally be the one that opens his eyes to the reality of his lifestyle and circumstances...the question is, will it be in Chicago? I doubt it. I think it is time for Kane to move on to another location, which should be enough of a sobering experience that he will transform his life. Again, there are teams out there right now, that will deal for Kane if the potential criminal proceedings go away...they would demand of Kane that he enter into a program of help to change his lifestyle around, and Kane would oblige as he has no other options.

Agree here Al and JJ...Bowman was handed a cup team in 2010 and has filled in nicely a couple of times. Personally I think his best move as a GM was the Saad trade. He didn't have a whole lot of time and made a really great move. I'm in JJ's camp as far as that Sharp could have/ should have been moved at the draft and it possibly cost them JO.

Meanwhile the Hawks will go on with or without Kane. If the Hawks add the right parts here after losing Kane there's no reason why they can't go on winning...and it sounds from what Mex is saying that's going to happen sooner than later. This summer is shaping up to be the defining moment in Bowman's tenure as Texas alludes to. While Stan has done a really nice job with the forwards Dano/TT/Panarin/AA...the defense is still a work in progress. And now we throw the Kane disaster into the pool...

Finally when does the other shoe drop...TG mentions the legal process and its taking time to play out as well as a scenario where the Hawks get caught in the switches where they can't play Kane but can't get rid of his cap hit...the process could take months with a prosecutor with what a 98% conviction rate and seeking higher office. He may eventually bring charges or not...

does anyone see Kane coming into camp or on the team before this is resolved one way or another?
- DK002

On the cap relief:

If (IF) no charges are filed (or before the DA finishes his investigation), should Kane enter some kind of rehab program, couldn't the Hawks legitimately put him on LTIR?

I would assume that LTIR rules would include non-hockey-related injuries and illnesses, including mental illnesses.

But - I still think that BEFORE putting him on LTIR on the first day of the season, they would have to be cap compliant including his cap hit.

does anyone see Kane coming into camp or on the team before this is resolved one way or another?
- DK002

Not a chance. Kane will not be allowed to participate with the team until such time that that any criminal charges are dismissed or the DA decides not to prosecute. Remember, Kane's "out" is his financial ability to enter into a settlement, without the girl's cooperation, any DA would have a very difficult time trying to prosecute this case. From what I have been told, the young woman has a very solid case against Patrick Kane, and thus everyday she decides against a settlement it puts more and more pressure upon Patrick Kane, and the "price" goes up. I am certain that at this point (with the rape kit results still not released) Kane's attorneys are trying to reach a settlement with the young ladies' representatives.

But remember, Rocky Wirtz is well aware of the situation Patrick Kane put himself into...so settlement or not, the Hawks are very concerned about Kane moving forward.

This is absolutely true, and you are quite right that the Hawks left themselves open for something like this to happen, but there is NO WAY the Hawks "deserved" this...no one does, except the person making these conscious decisions.

Remember, I shared with every here a month ago that the Hawks WERE NOT UNIFIED on the Kane extension. The hockey people were unanimous, but Upper MGT was split with Rocky for and McDonough AGAINST! Kane is a generational player and as such his unique talent and propensity in the clutch make decisions like these ones anything but "cut and dried". The Hawks trusted in Kane and he let them down, that's it...you can't change the past, you can only ever deal with the present. So what do the Hawks decide now??? To trust him again, or to move on if they can?

There is hope for Patrick Kane as a person, I am certain that this experience will finally be the one that opens his eyes to the reality of his lifestyle and circumstances...the question is, will it be in Chicago? I doubt it. I think it is time for Kane to move on to another location, which should be enough of a sobering experience that he will transform his life. Again, there are teams out there right now, that will deal for Kane if the potential criminal proceedings go away...they would demand of Kane that he enter into a program of help to change his lifestyle around, and Kane would oblige as he has no other options.
- MexicoHawk

In a way the Hawks do deserve this if they were so naive to think he would change his behavior because he said so is just incompitent. Especially if incidents were swept under the rug and the organization had any part in it

oh my gawd....NO! But hey if it does happen the hawks will be testing the popular theory around this blog that any stiff could play goal and look good with this team in front him
- bogiedoc

At this point there is almost no possible way that Kane will start the season with the Hawks, so on that basis Crawford is staying, and perhaps long term if Kane does not return.

As for Pavelec, obviously you haven't watched him play or tracked his career...he's a good goalie, not at the level of Crawford, but a good goalie that would do well in Chicago.

Define "major reporter." because I think by your definition, my original source on the Sharp to Toronto rumor (including the specifics I reported) would be a "major reporter." A very major reporter. That particular "major reporter" just doesn't go out with trade rumors. Not their thing.

Also, please tell me ONE GM who has inherited a core as good or better than:

Toews,
Kane,
Keith,
Hossa,
Seabrook,
Hjalmarsson,
Sharp

—all in or entering their primes.

Name one.
- John Jaeckel

This is an easy homework assignment because there AREN'T any...Bowman has done a good job overall in CHI, but what prevents him from being considered as a "top" GM is how poorly he dealt with his fire sales in 2010 and 2013. There's essentially nothing to show for all that talent.

In a way the Hawks do deserve this if they were so naive to think he would change his behavior because he said so is just incompitent. Especially if incidents were swept under the rug and the organization had any part in it
- BetweenTheDots

It may be many things, but it isn't "naivety", the Hawks were trusting an ADULT to act the part he agreed to. They were wrong, that's all. Again, Kane's talent and propensity in the clutch make him "believable"...and also remember, the Hawks were not unanimous on giving Kane his extension. What would you have done? I know I would likely have signed him with specific language in his contract...and that's exactly what the Hawks did.

This is an easy homework assignment because there AREN'T any...Bowman has done a good job overall in CHI, but what prevents him from being considered as a "top" GM is how poorly he dealt with his fire sales in 2010 and 2013. There's essentially nothing to show for all that talent.
- MexicoHawk

Dean Lombardi

And actually Bowman didn't even draft or trade for Kane toews seabrook hjalmarsson Keith sharp, he was handed them.

Until he builds his own team, id say DL is the better GM

This is an easy homework assignment because there AREN'T any...Bowman has done a good job overall in CHI, but what prevents him from being considered as a "top" GM is how poorly he dealt with his fire sales in 2010 and 2013. There's essentially nothing to show for all that talent.
- MexicoHawk

Game 6 is on the NHL Network for those of us who feel like reliving the third cup

What the club also may have to prepare for is a scenario similar to that of Voynov in LA, that is a legal process that keeps the Hawks from playing Kane or relieving themselves of his cap hit. So, the club, at least until there is some resolution, would be 1 man short and 10 million less on their team cap hit. Talk about handcuffs.

I heard from a friend in professional sports who says that in close circles, Kane is known as a black out drunk. That at certain points in the night, under certain circumstances, he is "high risk". Take it with a grain...just sharing.
- TrueGrit

This would be Hockey God Karma in light of what happened this last trade deadline with Vermette slipping under the cap and Kane's miraculous recovery.

What the club also may have to prepare for is a scenario similar to that of Voynov in LA, that is a legal process that keeps the Hawks from playing Kane or relieving themselves of his cap hit. So, the club, at least until there is some resolution, would be 1 man short and 10 million less on their team cap hit. Talk about handcuffs.

I heard from a friend in professional sports who says that in close circles, Kane is known as a black out drunk. That at certain points in the night, under certain circumstances, he is "high risk". Take it with a grain...just sharing.
- TrueGrit

yeah, that is the short term worst case scenario. (could be medium term if it drags out.)

Define "major reporter." because I think by your definition, my original source on the Sharp to Toronto rumor (including the specifics I reported) would be a "major reporter." A very major reporter. That particular "major reporter" just doesn't go out with trade rumors. Not their thing.

Also, please tell me ONE GM who has inherited a core as good or better than:

Toews,
Kane,
Keith,
Hossa,
Seabrook,
Hjalmarsson,
Sharp

—all in or entering their primes.

Name one.
- John Jaeckel

Major reporter is Friedman, McKenzie, Dreger, LeBrun, etc. The ones worth following on twitter because they are undeniably working with reliable sources. Much of it comes with the territory of their positions they inherit.
Since Bowman was with CHI for basically their entire rebuild, I fail to see how he isn't at least somewhat commendable for being part of the team's core. Wilson, McPhee, and Shero all had very good cores at one point with SJS, PIT, and WSH respectively and haven't had near the same amount of success. Bowman being well ahead of the curve on analytics is also hugely underrated as it is basically impossible to have a consistently competitive team without having strong team underlying numbers. CHI also has a solid future outlook which many GMs failed to maintain during their tenure with SC contenders.

I know of FIVE NHL teams that will take Patrick Kane should no criminal charges be filed, and Kane is prepared to make his transformation PUBLIC. So there very much IS a market for Kane, but the key is NO CRIMINAL CHARGES LAID.
- MexicoHawk

Who might those FIVE TEAMS be?

There is a reason why Kobe and Roethlesberger were never traded. I am certain Jerry Buss or the Rooney family didn't want a possible sex offender remaining on their team, either, but, at the end of the day, other teams that did not already win championships with those players would want them even less.

with The Winnipeg-Crawford rumor, I would put my money on Nikolaj Ehlers. That would be absolutely phenomenal
- Panarin27

Indeed!!!.......Still a prospect, but a talent to be a top player in any league.

On the cap relief:

If (IF) no charges are filed (or before the DA finishes his investigation), should Kane enter some kind of rehab program, couldn't the Hawks legitimately put him on LTIR?

I would assume that LTIR rules would include non-hockey-related injuries and illnesses, including mental illnesses.

But - I still think that BEFORE putting him on LTIR on the first day of the season, they would have to be cap compliant including his cap hit.
- StLBravesFan

Nope. No need. Participation in the substance abuse program counts as non-injured reserve and his cap hit would be prorated for time missed anyway.

All I have as a response is kobe Bryant, drew doughty, Ben roethlisberger
- LuckyStrikeW

Donald Sterling & the aforementioned Tiger Woods - 2 men with much more money & influence than any you've mentioned.

Your above mentioned 'stars' are probably part of the reason society has had enough of these guys thinking they can do what they want. Now with social media (nearly everyone seems to have access to a smart device these days), the information is immediate & social reaction magnified enormously, meaning more pressure on all concerned.

Bryant lost sponsors - not all but some after he paid his victim off. Were the other 2 charged & found guilty?

Bowman has supplemented the core with great depth and core contracts that made your dynasty possible. Many GMs have failed with strong cores before. He was one of the first to utilize analytics in decisions. Which GM has been better?

In regards to sources, the same source that said Rutherford was getting fired after the season also said the Kessel deal was done hours before anyone else. Unless it is a major reporter with reliable sources, the rumor should be met with skepticism at best.
- jfkst1

First to use analytics? Overstated about being the 1st....and even now the Hawks blend their own analytical cocktail but they don't drown in it.

It depends how you define better but most in the NHL would say Bob Murray has been better over the same amount of time even though he doesn't have any Cups.

You don't have to, you aren't paying (I assume), hundreds & thousands of $ in sponsorship. Your partner/wife/girlfriend probably doesn't care about what impact Patrick Kane has on anything.

Major contributors do, their wives/partners do. In the high end business world where a lot of people don't care about hockey some probably don't even know what it is, the name Patrick Kane is toxic. The stories that are currently circulating would be devastating to 'some' parts of society & 100% in the business world.

Now that's just my opinion so dismiss it if you want to, but from my experiences (I'm not in my 20's or 30's), it's a reality.
- Aussiepenguin

The above is from the business side. ...... From the on ice side there has to be some Hawk decision makers saying if he's innocent we still have to move him now while he still has value, before "Kaner" has another future "incident" leaving him with little to no value.

Top 5 vision and hands in the world, innocent of the most cowardly of acts he has tons of value. Another "Kaner Excellent Night Out" he's 10.5 mil of baggage.

The Hawks gamblers?