Well that's the first time I've heard that the woman has a strong case against Kane, if that's the case, I'd say there's zero chance he plays in Chicago again.
- walleyeb1

That's a pretty serious insinuation against Kane.
"Pretty big case" doesn't sound too good.

I wouldn't assume they use it as a primary means of decision making, actually that would not be true. The Hawks tie their analytical person in with being a video analyst... Actually it is a co title and this summer was the first time they actually recognized any analytical person as part of hockey ops.

There is a wealth of knowledge in the Hawks front office...Scotty Bowman, Al MacIsaac who could be a GM in the NHL, Mark Kelley and Barry Smith to name a few...Bowman has a an All Star support team....plus some who left and were immediately promoted to GM jobs.

Bowman isn't a bad GM and he has done a better than average job, but he has some to go before he will be considered in the upper echelon. Now if the Saad trade works well and the Hawks have a big season it would mean a lot toward raising his standing.

Bowman inherited 4 HOF players and has one or two others who could make it as well. Bowman had a lot to work with, but no doubt he deserves credit, just not as much a some who have had a lot less talent on their roster.
- Al

Every player brought in has good underlying numbers in possession and/or production. That might correspond to film study and manifest on the ice, but the link with the data is clear.
There's no doubt that Bowman inherited a great situation when he assumed GM duties. However, to ignore the overwhelming disparity between his accomplishments and every other GMs during his tenure is supremely dismissive. They are the only dynasty in the modern era.

[quote=dahawks8819]If he is not charged with any crime, and the Hawks trade him, it will be the last cup we see with this core.

People need to remember how the team looked when he went down with the collarbone injury. They were barely a .500 team, they couldn't score, the power play looked even worse without him - and that's saying something.

He has an "it" factor that this team feeds off of - that makes them a very dangerous team. Without him, they may not make the playoffs.

Look, I don't condone his actions - and if he is guilty of this crime, then he should never see an NHL arena again. But trading him without any charges filed will end this dynasty - and every team in the West knows it - and they are hoping the Hawks do trade him.



You sure about that? Even if it brings Stamkos or McKinnon& Duschene or a package of 3 high end kids starting with Taylor Hall, hypothetically
speaking? You think no more cups with out 88? Contrary to what some are saying, Bowman and his team of GM's will wait it out for the best deal possible or Kane keeps playing for Chicago. But I do not think he finishes out his contract here. I am in the camp of even if he is innocent, the Hawks want the head aches and the "what is the little Shlit gonna do next"?out of the picture.

Let me make a few remarks about all of the speculation and comments being made. First, a great thanks to JJ for being so talented and credible in the first place to HAVE SOURCES, these are people who wouldn't divulge private information to just anyone on the net...they do so to JJ because they know he is a very good ambassador for not only the Blackhawks, but for Hockey in general!

Now, as to JJ's rumours, I will say this once again, based on the amount of scenarios bantered about inside the offices of NHL GMs you could throw DARTS at the board and hit a discussed scenario! NHL GMs HAVE TO go over scenario after scenario to stay ahead of all that CAN happen at random when you are dealing with a team of 21+ human beings...sh$t happens.

The Canes are looking to move Jeff Skinner's contract, the Hawks are looking to move Bryan Bickell's contract...have they talked? MOST LIKELY YES, and indeed I can confirm that they have. Is a deal imminent between them? NO, there is simply too much up in the air for the Hawks right now. They need to either make a decision about Patrick Kane, or have a decision made for them before they do anything. But with LESS THAN A MONTH to the start of training camp, things are URGENT for the Hawks and they have feelers out EVERYWHERE in the hopes that they can get something done soon. Watch for it, as soon as something concrete is announced in the Kane matter the Hawks will make a move soon after. Right now, besides WPG and CAR, which JJ reported, the Hawks are STILL in contact with PHO, NJ and FLA about Bickell...those discussions a month earlier haven't just "gone away", anything is possible when it comes to Bryan Bickell and every line of conversation is being kept open!

I know for certain that WPG is prepared to deal with the Hawks on TWO different scenarios, one of which would include Bryan Bickell, and they don't really want him, so do the math on what would have to be included. As for the 2nd scenario, it involves Patrick Kane. WPG is one of those destinations that would accept Patrick Kane under the RIGHT circumstances, and they understand that a deal for Kane would likely mean he would miss part of the season! Someone asked yesterday "why would WPG be interested in CC when they have a good NHL prospect in waiting?" Really? You need to even ask this question? Why would Kevin Cheveldayoff still be interested in acquiring more Blackhawk players (like Andrew Ladd and Big Buff)? Gee, I don't know, maybe its because THEY KNOW HOW TO WIN AT THE HIGHEST LEVEL, and have been taught by the best coach in hockey? Have Ladd and Buff worked out well in WPG? What would acquiring Corey Crawford (and at the same time moving Pavelec) say to WPG fans? Maybe that we believe we can WIN NOW and Crawford knows a thing or two about winning Stanley Cups? No! The Jets have a 22 year old prospect who is the 2nd coming of Glen Hall...no issues there!

Even Bryan Bickell brings size, physicality, solid 2 way play, and toughness that any team can benefit from...add to the fact that Bickell has been on the roster for THREE Stanley Cups, and was a Conn Smythe finalist for one of them, and he's an ATTRACTIVE player! Certainly he has physical issues and his salary is high, but money can be taken back and there's only 2 years left on his deal, not like FOUR years on Skinner's massive deal!

JJ and I have had some discussions about this, and we both understand that the Hawks are in a tough spot right now, and as the defending Cup champions (and 3 in 6 years) they aren't going to receive any favours from anyone. Patrick Kane's actions (on the verge of his new massive deal set to kick in) were EXACTLY WHAT THE HAWKS DIDN'T NEED! And that statement goes far beyond just the speculation of whether he will be allowed to play or not! Right now, Bowman is going through scenarios where Kane will still be a Hawk but will have to miss part or all of the season, and whether his Cap hit can be removed or not. He is also going through a scenario where he will be ordered to TRADE Kane...and he is going through a scenario where Kane's contract is simply voided and he's released outright, because he can't play in the NHL (at least for a while). Do any of you actually think that Stan Bowman doesn't already have enough on his plate???

What some of you are incredibly still in denial over is the FACT that Kane could be not only suspended by the team or league, but could end up in JAIL! But it goes far, far beyond this discussion alone. Kane is now DAMAGED goods, regardless of how this all plays out. Before this mess, Kane was a young, talented player that showed up during crunch time...one of the most valuable commodities in the league and a player so good, that a few indiscretions could be overlooked. But now, he's a loose cannon and dangerous goods, because he is proving that he's not only dangerous to himself, but to others as well and NO TEAM will accept that without a STRICT and PUBLIC transformation! Kane is going to have to come public with his issues, go through some kind of "accepted" help program and be committed publicly to changing his life around! And believe me, this scenario is necessary in Chicago as well, if the Hawks decide to keep him!

Right now I am certain the Hawks are OPEN to both keeping and trading Kane away. Whether he stays or not will depend upon how the situation with the Police/Law turns out and how Kane decides to handle this. Because regardless of the perceived motives of the young woman involved, this is ALL on Patrick Kane. There have been TWO other incidents with Kane since 2012 that have not made the light of day, but that the Hawks are well aware of. How do you think Rocky and John feel about Kane in this precise moment with their GM already in dire straits with trying to fit a competitive team under the salary cap and two of their best players and perhaps best prospect already traded away??? Thrilled? Happy? Forgiving? Or perhaps angry and frustrated?

Understand the following, this is the "best scenario" for the Hawks with Kane. If Kane manages to avoid any legal charges against him and the Hawks decide to keep him after he agrees to come public with his problem(s) and pledges to change his lifestyle around, the Hawks are ONE more incident with Kane away from NOT BEING ABLE TO TRADE HIM FOR ANY VALUE, ever again! By keeping Kane they would be backing themselves into a corner that doesn't feature a way out...and this is the best scenario to boot. Is that the smart move?

Finally, if the Hawks do move Kane will they get equal value back for him? Of course not, there isn't another Patrick Kane out there! However, at this point, if Kane avoids criminal charges he STILL possesses significant value to a market that needs to win now...and those teams and owners EXIST! And as such, they have to give up value to get value. So to those who think that by trading Kane that the "Cup Days are over" in Chicago, think again. The heart and soul of this team has always been Jonathan Toews and the coaching of Joel Quenneville. As long as the Hawks add contributing pieces in any deal for Kane, they can still compete at the highest level. If the Hawks could trade Kane, for example, for Dustin Byfuglien and a TOP Jets prospect, how badly off would they be? A D core of Keith, Seabrook, Hammer, Buff, Daley and ANYBODY ELSE would be DOMINATING! And because Bowman has done so well in acquiring and developing the likes of Teravainen, Dano and Panarin, how badly off would our offence be when Q's system of offence is based upon forechecking, turnovers, and quick DZone breakouts? So if you choose to spout only "doom and gloom" over a possible Kane trade its only because you choose to...the Hawks can still win without Patrick Kane, but ONLY if there's value for trading him...and potentially there soon could be! And by keeping Kane, the Hawks risk NEVER again being able to trade him for any value...so again, which is the smart move?
- MexicoHawk

Chevy didn't bring in Ladd and Buff, they were already here, he did acquire Frolic but has since let him walk. Crawford is a good not great goalie who has been fortunate playing on a great team. When you have two top rated prospects in Hellybuck and Comrie you don't want to bring in a Chris Osgood type stanley cup winner who is signed for a ton of money long term and in the process give up Ehlers ( who people on here are guessing ) Of course Hawks fans would love this, Jets would not!!! We went 5-0 against you, we are heading in the right direction without Crawford

Ehrhoff would be an amazing fit here, there is a good chance skinner does come here, we would be getting a TOP winnipeg prospect, and teams would line up for kane. Hes Patrick Kane
- Panarin27

Ehrhoff is a total meh player. He sounds better than he actually is. The Hawks aren't taking on Skinner and his salary/ It makes absolutely no sense. WPG isn't giving up a top prospect for Crawford and his cap hit.

No one is going to give up assets for a player who could be looking at jail time or suspended until the matter is resolved.

Ehrhoff is a total meh player. He sounds better than he actually is. The Hawks aren't taking on Skinner and his salary/ It makes absolutely no sense. WPG isn't giving up a top prospect for Crawford and his cap hit.

No one is going to give up assets for a player who could be looking at jail time or suspended until the matter is resolved.
- TTtime

Ehrhoff was bought out by Buffalo.
Enough said right there, I think.
And he is always injured.

Ehrhoff is a total meh player. He sounds better than he actually is. The Hawks aren't taking on Skinner and his salary/ It makes absolutely no sense. WPG isn't giving up a top prospect for Crawford and his cap hit.

No one is going to give up assets for a player who could be looking at jail time or suspended until the matter is resolved.
- TTtime

It's 1.5 M totally worth the risk. Neither of us have sources, JJ does

Every player brought in has good underlying numbers in possession and/or production. That might correspond to film study and manifest on the ice, but the link with the data is clear.
There's no doubt that Bowman inherited a great situation when he assumed GM duties. However, to ignore the overwhelming disparity between his accomplishments and every other GMs during his tenure is supremely dismissive. They are the only dynasty in the modern era.
- jfkst1

The wings won 3 cups in 6 years in 97, 98, and 2002. Ken Holland inherited a great team after 97, went on to repeat, then built another Stanley cup winning team who almost repeated 10 years later. All without ever having a first pick before 15.

Not a chance. Kane will not be allowed to participate with the team until such time that that any criminal charges are dismissed or the DA decides not to prosecute. Remember, Kane's "out" is his financial ability to enter into a settlement, without the girl's cooperation, any DA would have a very difficult time trying to prosecute this case. From what I have been told, the young woman has a very solid case against Patrick Kane, and thus everyday she decides against a settlement it puts more and more pressure upon Patrick Kane, and the "price" goes up. I am certain that at this point (with the rape kit results still not released) Kane's attorneys are trying to reach a settlement with the young ladies' representatives.

But remember, Rocky Wirtz is well aware of the situation Patrick Kane put himself into...so settlement or not, the Hawks are very concerned about Kane moving forward.
- MexicoHawk

Hey Mex, good points...I'm in agreement I think I was taking a more rhetorical point of view...but I don't know which font color that is...I can't see Kane coming into camp either with the sideshow it would create and with the possible outcome of what's to come.

I am wondering if even if a settlement comes isn't the case in the hands of the DA at this point?

Chevy didn't bring in Ladd and Buff, they were already here, he did acquire Frolic but has since let him walk. Crawford is a good not great goalie who has been fortunate playing on a great team. When you have two top rated prospects in Hellybuck and Comrie you don't want to bring in a Chris Osgood type stanley cup winner who is signed for a ton of money long term and in the process give up Ehlers ( who people on here are guessing ) Of course Hawks fans would love this, Jets would not!!! We went 5-0 against you, we are heading in the right direction without Crawford
- Ross77

Actually the Jets won the season series 3-2 ...


http://blackhawks.nhl.com...?season=20142015&team=WPG

I can share with you now that the Hawks were "in" on Erhoff and CHI was his FIRST choice, but with the Kane matter now, he was likely going to have to wait until AFTER training camp before the Hawks would be able to sign him...thus, the Kings become a good 2nd choice! You are exactly right, these things (Oduya as well) are the result of having your hands tied, which is why Bowman is moving forward with a plan to avoid this from ever happening again.
- MexicoHawk

You've alluded to this before (I think.) It's good to hear and I still wonder what it means both theoretically and practically.

Theoretically, I'm assuming it means he doesn't want to be up against the cap and forced shed salary to keep assets he wants to keep.

Practically speaking, I've been reading that the cap could drop next year or stay flat, and if it does increase, probably by less than this year. Assuming they can resign Seabrook & Shaw for around the same amounts, and can shed Bickell this off season, next year looks okay. The problem comes the year after that when so many of the relatively cheap contracts expire: Teuvo, Dano, Panarin, Garbutt, Desjardins, Daley, Darling, Pokka, and a bunch of other prospects. The hope is that many of them have earned significant raises by then. But how will the Blackhawks afford to pay them?

That's why I think Crawford and Kane might need to be moved by then; probably before next season at the latest. Otherwise, he'll be in this situation again.

any chance Kane is sent down to florida so he can live out of the spotlight, help a young club make the playoffs and grow the game. Ekblad would be a good starting point!
- SaskHawkFan

Why would a team trade Calder Trophy winning defenseman for a guy making ten times as much money? The Panthers would never trade Ekblad for Kane even if he didn't have legal problems because this is a salary-cap league.

Every player brought in has good underlying numbers in possession and/or production. That might correspond to film study and manifest on the ice, but the link with the data is clear.
There's no doubt that Bowman inherited a great situation when he assumed GM duties. However, to ignore the overwhelming disparity between his accomplishments and every other GMs during his tenure is supremely dismissive. They are the only dynasty in the modern era.
- jfkst1

I'm not dismissing his accomplishments and from the beginning I wasn't in the crowd that said he got the gig because of his last name....I don't think that is true.
Still wouldn't call him the best GM in the NHL but u r entitled to your opinion.

The link with data and truly great players is almost always clear....Like I said at least 4 HOF players were in place and I wouldn't bet against at least half of them being 1st ballot Hall of Famers.

It's 1.5 M totally worth the risk. Neither of us have sources, JJ does
- Panarin27

Oh. Yeah. Neither of those trades are happening.

Chevy didn't bring in Ladd and Buff, they were already here, he did acquire Frolic but has since let him walk. Crawford is a good not great goalie who has been fortunate playing on a great team. When you have two top rated prospects in Hellybuck and Comrie you don't want to bring in a Chris Osgood type stanley cup winner who is signed for a ton of money long term and in the process give up Ehlers ( who people on here are guessing ) Of course Hawks fans would love this, Jets would not!!! We went 5-0 against you, we are heading in the right direction without Crawford
- Ross77

You might want to recheck the season series number and while you are doing that count the number of playoff games the Jets have won since they moved to Winnipeg. Shouldn't take you long.

Crawford may not be Carey Price or Lundqvist but he has 2 rings they don't have and he had a lot to do with the team winning those, including beating the squad that made quick work of the playoff Jets.

Hey Mex, good points...I'm in agreement I think I was taking a more rhetorical point of view...but I don't know which font color that is...I can't see Kane coming into camp either with the sideshow it would create and with the possible outcome of what's to come.

I am wondering if even if a settlement comes isn't the case in the hands of the DA at this point?
- DK002

I'm sure any settlement agreement would stipulate that she won't testify and would have a non disclosure agreement. I don't see the DA moving forward without her testimony. Just a guess but that's the way I see this ending. Unless she's insistant that it goes to trial. Which she may well be, that wouldn't prevent her from pursuing a civil case as well.

I'm sure any settlement agreement would stipulate that she won't testify and would have a non disclosure agreement. I don't see the DA moving forward without her testimony. Just a guess but that's the way I see this ending. Unless she's insistant that it goes to trial. Which she may well be, that wouldn't prevent her from pursuing a civil case as well.
- walleyeb1

Sad but true it could take years to unwind if there is a civil case involved.

I'm not dismissing his accomplishments and from the beginning I wasn't in the crowd that said he got the gig because of his last name....I don't think that is true.
Still wouldn't call him the best GM in the NHL but u r entitled to your opinion.

The link with data and truly great players is almost always clear....Like I said at least 4 HOF players were in place and I wouldn't bet against at least half of them being 1st ballot Hall of Famers.
- Al

The link is clear with the supporting cast like Anisimov, Dano, Daley, and Garbut too. His results speak for themselves.

Your logic crumbles right there.

What if the Hawks got back McDavid, or Daniel Sedin+ or any of a number of good to great players? Would they? Probably not, but your logic implies that there is no "Patrick Kane trade" that keeps the Hawks at par or possibly even improves them—and that is simply not true.

Patrick Kane is a great player. But he is not the only great player in the league and he is not the best player in the league. And there are combinations of players—many, many of them—that could equal the contribution of Patrick Kane.

And bottom line, while trading Kane is unthinkable to you and a few others, I am 99.9% sure that it is not right now to the people who matter most: the front office of the Chicago Blackhawks.
- John Jaeckel

You are correct, JJ . There will only be one man in the organization that will decide if Kane is traded ( if he is acquitted or case is settled ) . That man is Rocky! My gut feeling tells me Patrick Kane will be asked by management to go to a rehab
clinic and get a new clean start with another team. The move will be done with grace, sincerity and dignity. It will be a sad day for all .

The link is clear with the supporting cast like Anisimov, Dano, Daley, and Garbut too. His results speak for themselves.
- jfkst1

Hopefully those players flourish here...And most would say Daley's analytics don't support a lot of optimism, but I'm not sure.

As for the results...

Bowman's results are more subjective for me as he had a great cast to start so they can't be purely equated to winning 3 Cups...
Have a nice night...

Define "major reporter." because I think by your definition, my original source on the Sharp to Toronto rumor (including the specifics I reported) would be a "major reporter." A very major reporter. That particular "major reporter" just doesn't go out with trade rumors. Not their thing.

Also, please tell me ONE GM who has inherited a core as good or better than:

Toews,
Kane,
Keith,
Hossa,
Seabrook,
Hjalmarsson,
Sharp

—all in or entering their primes.

Name one.
- John Jaeckel

Was it Howard Berger?

The wings won 3 cups in 6 years in 97, 98, and 2002. Ken Holland inherited a great team after 97, went on to repeat, then built another Stanley cup winning team who almost repeated 10 years later. All without ever having a first pick before 15.
- ezekial

All true and Hooland is a hell of a GM, without question. However, this was prior to the cap era when everyone knew the Wings were Mr. Illitch's toy, and he could outspend everyone for the players he wanted, balance sheet be damned.

Begrudgingly, those,we're damn good Wings teams, who we all loved to hate. Doesn't diminish the job Holland did though.

I think for a player to be suspended without being charged or even if charged it has to be part of the NHL code of conduct. To get something written into the coc the players association would not agree. Remember, hockey isn't only their sport, it's their livelihoods. They get paid well yes, but so do solicitors, politicians, GM's, CEO etc. If a CEO does what Kane has (whatever that may be), would he be suspended from work? It also depends on the organisations policies - if the CEO doesn't get suspended for the same thing why should a player?

As for being expelled from the NHL, I disagree. Any player should be lawfully sanctioned along with whatever is in the NHL policies but still should be able to ply his trade after those sanctions are complete. Now the question would be whether or not a NHL team would employ that player - I have no doubt that Kane or even Voynov would have takers - probably just a reduced number of options.

It's their employment & everyone has a right to be employed. It's just your options are reduced once you start to take them for granted.
- Aussiepenguin

I hear this argument all the time that suspending players is depriving them of plying their trade and denying them a livelihood. There are other places to play hockey besides the NHL. They can play in the SEL, the KHL, and other leagues in Germany, Finland, and Switzerland. In most cases the salary will be less but they can still make a living. IMO this is a irrelevant argument.

Kopitar
Carter
Gaborik
Doughty
Brown (when his head is out of his ass)
Muzzin

LA doesn't have a seabrook but that's pretty damn close.
- KINGS67

It's also wrong as dean made trades for carter and gaborik