Hockey wise Kane it's a dynamic player who makes everyone around him better just like the captain.

I agree with you no Kane no more cups. Remember ONE GOAL, if this in fact is their mantra they will swallow their indignation and keep Kane, unfortunately for the Hawks they are in a situation where they can't have their cake and eat it too.
- BetweenTheDots

Disagree. Again, if you don't know the return on a deal for Kane, how can you possibly say that?

You don't know how good Panarin is, for example. I hear whispers this guy is going to be a huge star. Are they right? I don't know. None of us do. How much better will TT get? Because he will. Dano?

Love all the support from other teams fans! Had no idea that there were so many experts out there on the value of Hockey Pat Kane and Party Pat Kane.
Great to know that you all have first hand knowledge of what your teams GM'S would give up for him.
- camfor

Its simply a question of looking up the returns for superstars involved in trades over the last 20 years.... They almost never return equal value... I Won't speak for all organizations but Pittsburgh would not have traded Crosby or Malkin for him before the scandal.... Simply put there both are centers and honestly both are better.... Kessel although not as good as Kane is making 4 million dollars less and Letang/ Maatta are to important for the d.... Now add the scandal to the equation... Unless Chicago is accepting a package of Rob Scuderi, Kunitz and Beau Bennett and eating 3 million per of Kane's contract it not happening. (No one in their right mind would make that deal from Chicago's side).... I assume other teams are in very similar situations considering its late August....Experts no... just seems like common sense considering the facts

One thing many are overlooking is this scenario. If I was a member of a three time cup winner and had to play with a guy like Kane I would be kind of embarrassed to be on the same team as him as Kane is relentlessly getting in some kind of trouble. The allegations are very serious and the image of the Hawks will always be tarnished by the actions of Pat Kane. Even if he is innocent there will always be doubt. Not to mention if I was Kane I would probably just quit the game, he is going to be the subject of abuse for the remainder of his nhl career.
- flyerdude17

Yeah great idea.

Its simply a question of looking up the returns for superstars involved in trades over the last 20 years.... They almost never return equal value... I Won't speak for all organizations but Pittsburgh would not have traded Crosby or Malkin for him before the scandal.... Simply put there both are centers and honestly both are better.... Kessel although not as good as Kane is making 4 million dollars less and Letang/ Maatta are to important for the d.... Now add the scandal to the equation... Unless Chicago is accepting a package of Rob Scuderi, Kunitz and Beau Bennett and eating 3 million per of Kane's contract it not happening. (No one in their right mind would make that deal from Chicago's side).... I assume other teams are in very similar situations considering its late August....Experts no... just seems like common sense considering the facts
- Brianandr1

There is truth in what you say, but I will just say this, I heard one rumored offer for Kane that included an all-star player who would check a lot of empty boxes for the Hawks and more (probably a good prospect or two). "Equal value"? Unless it's Tavares, Stamkos, or say Tarasenko, no.

But . . . the Hawks are kinda stacked at RW with not just great players (Hossa) but also potentially good or even great top 6 players like Dano and Teravainen. And, yes, Teravainen's best position may be RW.

So to flatly say losing Kane—if you got back an asset (or assets) that really helped fill a gap (or gaps) elsewhere—would hurt the team might be wrong.

I could see a potential deal with the Islanders where you have Kane coming to the Islanders for Okposo, Strait, and a couple of picks with the understanding that Okposo is signed long term. I think that Garth would have an edge by being able to ask Leddy about Kane and his issues. This would give the Islanders the 1 - 2 punch of Tavares and Kane up front and make room for a D prospect to strut his stuff. It would give the Black Hawks a solid winger and an improvement on D with a very dependable defensive defenseman and a couple picks for their clubs future or to use as trading pieces.
- temmer29

I respectfully disagree with your return. If Kane is cleared and the front office is fed up - the asking price starts with Okposo, Nelson (RFA) and Del Colle. And, for a potential combination of Tavares/Kane - that not an out of line asking price.

The rumored Toronto deal was related to me by a source in Canada who everyone knows of and respects highly, and later verified (as far as conversations having taken pace) by a Hawk source.

Evidence suggests the initial offers were better and Bowman waited too long to pull the trigger, and many sources have said the same.
- John Jaeckel

Not saying Bowman is perfect, but he has been the best GM in the league for some time. I really doubt he made such an egregious error. I suspect it is more likely he had weak offers because every single team knew he was at a severe disadvantage and he made the best deal he could.

There is truth in what you say, but I will just say this, I heard one rumored offer for Kane that included an all-star player who would check a lot of empty boxes for the Hawks and more (probably a good prospect or two). "Equal value"? Unless it's Tavares, Stamkos, or say Tarasenko, no.

But . . . the Hawks are kinda stacked at RW with not just great players (Hossa) but also potentially good or even great top 6 players like Dano and Teravainen. And, yes, Teravainen's best position may be RW.

So to flatly say losing Kane—if you got back an asset (or assets) that really helped fill a gap (or gaps) elsewhere—would hurt the team might be wrong.
- John Jaeckel

I agree with this but like I said earlier a team like Phily might offer a player like Schenn but insist Chicago take back guys like Umberger and Lecalvier... I don't doubt they could get some nice pieces back but with hefty baggage... I assume any deal would be similar... most teams have a contract or two they d love to be rid of.... Phily has like 5 lol

Your logic crumbles right there.

What if the Hawks got back McDavid, or Daniel Sedin+ or any of a number of good to great players? Would they? Probably not, but your logic implies that there is no "Patrick Kane trade" that keeps the Hawks at par or possibly even improves them—and that is simply not true.

Patrick Kane is a great player. But he is not the only great player in the league and he is not the best player in the league. And there are combinations of players—many, many of them—that could equal the contribution of Patrick Kane.

And bottom line, while trading Kane is unthinkable to you and a few others, I am 99.9% sure that it is not right now to the people who matter most: the front office of the Chicago Blackhawks.
- John Jaeckel

A General Manager with big enough coconuts could rationalize to himself that trading #88 is the right thing to do just on the basis that his continued off ice conduct issues related to a bad circle of friends, alcohol abuse and possibly other substances (if true and substantiated) will inevitably lead to a decline in on ice performance and increase the frequency of lost games to injury.

Very risky business all the way round for Stanbo and associates.

Kings sign Ehrhoff so theres that

I respectfully disagree with your return. If Kane is cleared and the front office is fed up - the asking price starts with Okposo, Nelson (RFA) and Del Colle. And, for a potential combination of Tavares/Kane - that not an out of line asking price.
- PC_Catch-22

I'm sorry but I just don't think so.....

Ur asking for 3 #1 picks plus add $10.4m..... and try to sign JT in a couple of years....??? Ummm no, might want to try again....

A General Manager with big enough coconuts could rationalize to himself that trading #88 is the right thing to do just on the basis that his continued off ice conduct issues related to a bad circle of friends, alcohol abuse and possibly other substances (if true and substantiated) will inevitably lead to a decline in on ice performance and increase the frequency of lost games to injury.

Very risky business all the way round for Stanbo and associates.
- RickJ

There is also the complete inability to predict what will happen next—while all the evidence suggests something else will happen. There have been multiple incidents, multiple warnings, multiple promises to change the behavior.

THAT is why it is an organizational concern that goes beyond just the on-ice product—the potential (still quite real today and for this season) for future suspensions, hospitalizations, issues with sponsors, teammates, fans.

I agree with this but like I said earlier a team like Phily might offer a player like Schenn but insist Chicago take back guys like Umberger and Lecalvier... I don't doubt they could get some nice pieces back but with hefty baggage... I assume any deal would be similar... most teams have a contract or two they d love to be rid of.... Phily has like 5 lol
- Brianandr1

The deal I heard of, if they WANT/NEED to move Kane—i would take in a heartbeat. I would also say a few prayers that Dano or TT step it up this season. FWIW.

And the player coming back is not damaged goods like LeCavalier and a much better player/more valuable asset than Schenn. Some minor "baggage" but generally considered a very good player, a unique talent, and a good guy to have on your club.

There is truth in what you say, but I will just say this, I heard one rumored offer for Kane that included an all-star player who would check a lot of empty boxes for the Hawks and more (probably a good prospect or two). "Equal value"? Unless it's Tavares, Stamkos, or say Tarasenko, no.

But . . . the Hawks are kinda stacked at RW with not just great players (Hossa) but also potentially good or even great top 6 players like Dano and Teravainen. And, yes, Teravainen's best position may be RW.

So to flatly say losing Kane—if you got back an asset (or assets) that really helped fill a gap (or gaps) elsewhere—would hurt the team might be wrong.
- John Jaeckel

I would think not the Tavares or Jamie Benn tier but rather the Taylor Hall Matt Duchene tier. So not a franchise player in return but still an allstar

Jared fogle does need a roommate.
- Isles_since_6

Not saying guilty or not. Just suggesting a marketing plan.

What panel do you suppose he'll be on at the convention? Ha.

Kings sign Ehrhoff so theres that
- Panarin27

that's what sucks about being in limbo with Kane and Bickell; other options are drying up

The deal I heard of, if they WANT/NEED to move Kane—i would take in a heartbeat. I would also say a few prayers that Dano or TT step it up this season. FWIW.

And the player coming back is not damaged goods like LeCavalier and a much better player/more valuable asset than Schenn. Some minor "baggage" but generally considered a very good player, a unique talent, and a good guy to have on your club.
- John Jaeckel

Giroux.

Kessel+Scuderi for Kane?

There is also the complete inability to predict what will happen next—while all the evidence suggests something else will happen. There have been multiple incidents, multiple warnings, multiple promises to change the behavior.

THAT is why it is an organizational concern that goes beyond just the on-ice product—the potential (still quite real today and for this season) for future suspensions, hospitalizations, issues with sponsors, teammates, fans.
- John Jaeckel

It has been a few years since he was in the press for trouble with the law. If/when this situation clears up, I'd guess he'll stay out of trouble for at least a year or two. Waiting until the off season to trade him makes sense but if the offer is as good as you say it is, they might want to just take it.

The deal I heard of, if they WANT/NEED to move Kane—i would take in a heartbeat. I would also say a few prayers that Dano or TT step it up this season. FWIW.

And the player coming back is not damaged goods like LeCavalier and a much better player/more valuable asset than Schenn. Some minor "baggage" but generally considered a very good player, a unique talent, and a good guy to have on your club.
- John Jaeckel

I guess we ll have to wait and see... No team is trading top assets for Kane until he's cleared.... if he's charged my guess is the NHL suspends him till the issue is resolved.... I do think the Hawk's will be solid either way...

No way the Iles move Okposo, Del Colle and Nelson.... Okposo and a lesser prospect and a pick I could see.... Isles are in a position to be a cup contender...assuming they add a veteran d man at some point they are right their with Tampa as East favorites... slightly ahead of Pittsburgh and Washington to start the season each of which have bigger question marks

Pretty sure you will be banned for such blasphemy here on this board.

Hope you enjoyed your last post
- vabeachbear

What's the opinion here? That Bowman doesn't know what he is doing despite his results? He did well on the Saad trade IMO. He likely has little recourse on many personnel decisions with options ranging from bad to worse. The rest of the league is catching up in using underlying numbers too so he lost that competitive advantage.

What's the opinion here? That Bowman doesn't know what he is doing despite his results? He did well on the Saad trade IMO. He likely has little recourse on many decisions with options ranging from bad to worse.
- jfkst1

He gets ripped pretty well here, think he's getting more respect though.

What's the opinion here? That Bowman doesn't know what he is doing despite his results? He did well on the Saad trade IMO. He likely has little recourse on many personnel decisions with options ranging from bad to worse. The rest of the league is catching up in using underlying numbers too so he lost that competitive advantage.
- jfkst1

Other than the LA Kings with 2 Cups and maybe Tampa who hasn't faced the salary cap music yet, tell me who the hell in the league is catching up? A team has to win something to have caught up - otherwise they are like every other horse that got beat by American Pharoah - also rans.

He gets ripped pretty well here, think he's getting more respect though.
- vabeachbear

Then it's indicative of the knowledge base of those criticizing him. He's been the best GM by a wide margin since taking over. And the results prove that.

The deal I heard of, if they WANT/NEED to move Kane—i would take in a heartbeat. I would also say a few prayers that Dano or TT step it up this season. FWIW.

And the player coming back is not damaged goods like LeCavalier and a much better player/more valuable asset than Schenn. Some minor "baggage" but generally considered a very good player, a unique talent, and a good guy to have on your club.
- John Jaeckel

Would this deal involve another transaction with the Stars?

Let me make a few remarks about all of the speculation and comments being made. First, a great thanks to JJ for being so talented and credible in the first place to HAVE SOURCES, these are people who wouldn't divulge private information to just anyone on the net...they do so to JJ because they know he is a very good ambassador for not only the Blackhawks, but for Hockey in general!

Now, as to JJ's rumours, I will say this once again, based on the amount of scenarios bantered about inside the offices of NHL GMs you could throw DARTS at the board and hit a discussed scenario! NHL GMs HAVE TO go over scenario after scenario to stay ahead of all that CAN happen at random when you are dealing with a team of 21+ human beings...sh$t happens.

The Canes are looking to move Jeff Skinner's contract, the Hawks are looking to move Bryan Bickell's contract...have they talked? MOST LIKELY YES, and indeed I can confirm that they have. Is a deal imminent between them? NO, there is simply too much up in the air for the Hawks right now. They need to either make a decision about Patrick Kane, or have a decision made for them before they do anything. But with LESS THAN A MONTH to the start of training camp, things are URGENT for the Hawks and they have feelers out EVERYWHERE in the hopes that they can get something done soon. Watch for it, as soon as something concrete is announced in the Kane matter the Hawks will make a move soon after. Right now, besides WPG and CAR, which JJ reported, the Hawks are STILL in contact with PHO, NJ and FLA about Bickell...those discussions a month earlier haven't just "gone away", anything is possible when it comes to Bryan Bickell and every line of conversation is being kept open!

I know for certain that WPG is prepared to deal with the Hawks on TWO different scenarios, one of which would include Bryan Bickell, and they don't really want him, so do the math on what would have to be included. As for the 2nd scenario, it involves Patrick Kane. WPG is one of those destinations that would accept Patrick Kane under the RIGHT circumstances, and they understand that a deal for Kane would likely mean he would miss part of the season! Someone asked yesterday "why would WPG be interested in CC when they have a good NHL prospect in waiting?" Really? You need to even ask this question? Why would Kevin Cheveldayoff still be interested in acquiring more Blackhawk players (like Andrew Ladd and Big Buff)? Gee, I don't know, maybe its because THEY KNOW HOW TO WIN AT THE HIGHEST LEVEL, and have been taught by the best coach in hockey? Have Ladd and Buff worked out well in WPG? What would acquiring Corey Crawford (and at the same time moving Pavelec) say to WPG fans? Maybe that we believe we can WIN NOW and Crawford knows a thing or two about winning Stanley Cups? No! The Jets have a 22 year old prospect who is the 2nd coming of Glen Hall...no issues there!

Even Bryan Bickell brings size, physicality, solid 2 way play, and toughness that any team can benefit from...add to the fact that Bickell has been on the roster for THREE Stanley Cups, and was a Conn Smythe finalist for one of them, and he's an ATTRACTIVE player! Certainly he has physical issues and his salary is high, but money can be taken back and there's only 2 years left on his deal, not like FOUR years on Skinner's massive deal!

JJ and I have had some discussions about this, and we both understand that the Hawks are in a tough spot right now, and as the defending Cup champions (and 3 in 6 years) they aren't going to receive any favours from anyone. Patrick Kane's actions (on the verge of his new massive deal set to kick in) were EXACTLY WHAT THE HAWKS DIDN'T NEED! And that statement goes far beyond just the speculation of whether he will be allowed to play or not! Right now, Bowman is going through scenarios where Kane will still be a Hawk but will have to miss part or all of the season, and whether his Cap hit can be removed or not. He is also going through a scenario where he will be ordered to TRADE Kane...and he is going through a scenario where Kane's contract is simply voided and he's released outright, because he can't play in the NHL (at least for a while). Do any of you actually think that Stan Bowman doesn't already have enough on his plate???

What some of you are incredibly still in denial over is the FACT that Kane could be not only suspended by the team or league, but could end up in JAIL! But it goes far, far beyond this discussion alone. Kane is now DAMAGED goods, regardless of how this all plays out. Before this mess, Kane was a young, talented player that showed up during crunch time...one of the most valuable commodities in the league and a player so good, that a few indiscretions could be overlooked. But now, he's a loose cannon and dangerous goods, because he is proving that he's not only dangerous to himself, but to others as well and NO TEAM will accept that without a STRICT and PUBLIC transformation! Kane is going to have to come public with his issues, go through some kind of "accepted" help program and be committed publicly to changing his life around! And believe me, this scenario is necessary in Chicago as well, if the Hawks decide to keep him!

Right now I am certain the Hawks are OPEN to both keeping and trading Kane away. Whether he stays or not will depend upon how the situation with the Police/Law turns out and how Kane decides to handle this. Because regardless of the perceived motives of the young woman involved, this is ALL on Patrick Kane. There have been TWO other incidents with Kane since 2012 that have not made the light of day, but that the Hawks are well aware of. How do you think Rocky and John feel about Kane in this precise moment with their GM already in dire straits with trying to fit a competitive team under the salary cap and two of their best players and perhaps best prospect already traded away??? Thrilled? Happy? Forgiving? Or perhaps angry and frustrated?

Understand the following, this is the "best scenario" for the Hawks with Kane. If Kane manages to avoid any legal charges against him and the Hawks decide to keep him after he agrees to come public with his problem(s) and pledges to change his lifestyle around, the Hawks are ONE more incident with Kane away from NOT BEING ABLE TO TRADE HIM FOR ANY VALUE, ever again! By keeping Kane they would be backing themselves into a corner that doesn't feature a way out...and this is the best scenario to boot. Is that the smart move?

Finally, if the Hawks do move Kane will they get equal value back for him? Of course not, there isn't another Patrick Kane out there! However, at this point, if Kane avoids criminal charges he STILL possesses significant value to a market that needs to win now...and those teams and owners EXIST! And as such, they have to give up value to get value. So to those who think that by trading Kane that the "Cup Days are over" in Chicago, think again. The heart and soul of this team has always been Jonathan Toews and the coaching of Joel Quenneville. As long as the Hawks add contributing pieces in any deal for Kane, they can still compete at the highest level. If the Hawks could trade Kane, for example, for Dustin Byfuglien and a TOP Jets prospect, how badly off would they be? A D core of Keith, Seabrook, Hammer, Buff, Daley and ANYBODY ELSE would be DOMINATING! And because Bowman has done so well in acquiring and developing the likes of Teravainen, Dano and Panarin, how badly off would our offence be when Q's system of offence is based upon forechecking, turnovers, and quick DZone breakouts? So if you choose to spout only "doom and gloom" over a possible Kane trade its only because you choose to...the Hawks can still win without Patrick Kane, but ONLY if there's value for trading him...and potentially there soon could be! And by keeping Kane, the Hawks risk NEVER again being able to trade him for any value...so again, which is the smart move?