I can't believe this discussion is already starting....haven't we learned anything from the last few seasons about expectations on trade returns for our players.

Many have pointed out to me on here that market value doesn't dictate the return of players, only what a team is willing to give up.

Penciling in Vrbata/Hamhuis for 1sts, Higgins/Hansen/Burrows for 2nds etc. is just setting yourself up for disappointment if you are basing that on what other players of similar ilk received in return.
- belcherbd

Precisely. We are starting to see what our old core is worth in their declining years and all these 1st's coming back ...yeesh...

I like Hamhuis alot...always have. But he took a MASSIVE stp back last year in the NHL with his speed. At Times looked like he was standing still out there. OK granted he may have played through a few injuries but still...declining.

If Vrbata's pace is good then maybe a first....maybe.

Precisely. We are starting to see what our old core is worth in their declining years and all these 1st's coming back ...yeesh...

I like Hamhuis alot...always have. But he took a MASSIVE stp back last year in the NHL with his speed. At Times looked like he was standing still out there. OK granted he may have played through a few injuries but still...declining.

If Vrbata's pace is good then maybe a first....maybe.
- LordHumungous

He had to change the way he skated after coming back from that groin tear. He said so himself.

+1 Again. If only you could agree with me that Horvat will be better than Bennett and we can finally say we have a lot in common

I like that you also like the idea of forecasting our players for the TDL and keeping values at an all time high. We know who we have in our system and the talent and strengths they bring, so lets expose the strengths of those who we know we want to get picks from and squeeze these other GM's for as much as possible. It's a brilliant strategy in which Benning and Linden need to do. Make these players shine and show their ceiling so we can get as much as possible for them.
- Codes1087

Horvat will be better than Bennett...and it's not going to be close.

It was more about the term 'utilized properly'.
- Marwood

Oh

Horvat will be better than Bennett...and it's not going to be close.
- LordHumungous

Im sure if you were a neutral fan you'd say the same

Horvat will be better than Bennett...and it's not going to be close.
- LordHumungous

Horvat is going to be an absolutely good to great NHL'er, he's mature, he's defensively responsible, he has offensive ability, he has NHL size….he's not a superstar and never will be, but he's gonna be Mike Gillis's best pick!!

The Flames were lucky Bennett fell to them, he's also going to be a good NHL'er, but his game is different than Bo's. He's more about offence than playing a 200 foot game, something he's going to have to learn IMO.

Both are excellent young players!!!

Just finished cleaning the boat and truck up; spent three days in Port Alberni for the 2015 Salmon Fest. Didn't win a damn thing and there were $55,000 dollars in total prizes

Anyways, break time! Ice cold beer and some Canucks chat! If Virtanen does make the team, assuming he's on the fourth line, does someone have to be moved for him to fit in?

Bottom six?

Higgins Horvat Hansen
Prust Vey Dorsett
- LeftCoaster

I think if there is an injury then we will see him for sure for 9 games.
Otherwise they can still role out

Sedin Sedin Vrbata
Baertschi Sutter Burrows
Higgins Horvat Hansen
Dorsett Vey Virtanen
Prust

Cycle Prust, Dorsett, Virtanen through the games until the decision to keep Jake or not.

I don't think there is a spot on this roster for him though without a trade.
I doubt Dorsett or Prust will be regular press box guys and they need don't have any option at 4C other then Vey.

Horvat is going to be an absolutely good to great NHL'er, he's mature, he's defensively responsible, he has offensive ability, he has NHL size….he's not a superstar and never will be, but he's gonna be Mike Gillis's best pick!!

The Flames were lucky Bennett fell to them, he's also going to be a good NHL'er, but his game is different than Bo's. He's more about offence than playing a 200 foot game, something he's going to have to learn IMO.

Both are excellent young players!!!
- LeftCoaster

I think Bennett is underrated as a 200 ft player and my biggest doubt was always whether he could play the same aggressive style against men. Very small sample size but so far he has been impressive.

I think Horvat is a tough player to make predictions because he seems to be a player that has been able to elevate his game above his perceived talents. If he can keep that up, watch out.

I think if there is an injury then we will see him for sure for 9 games.
Otherwise they can still role out

Sedin Sedin Vrbata
Baertschi Sutter Burrows
Higgins Horvat Hansen
Dorsett Vey Virtanen
Prust

Cycle Prust, Dorsett, Virtanen through the games until the decision to keep Jake or not.

I don't think there is a spot on this roster for him though without a trade.
I doubt Dorsett or Prust will be regular press box guys and they need don't have any option at 4C other then Vey.
- belcherbd

I don't see Dorsett and Prust as press-box guys either, they make the team harder to play against, thus the acquisitions.

Higgins, Burrows and Hansen moved at some point over the next 12 months?

I think if there is an injury then we will see him for sure for 9 games.
Otherwise they can still role out

Sedin Sedin Vrbata
Baertschi Sutter Burrows
Higgins Horvat Hansen
Dorsett Vey Virtanen
Prust

Cycle Prust, Dorsett, Virtanen through the games until the decision to keep Jake or not.

I don't think there is a spot on this roster for him though without a trade.
I doubt Dorsett or Prust will be regular press box guys and they need don't have any option at 4C other then Vey.
- belcherbd

Virtanen, Kenins, Corrado will all see games this year, garuntee it. Injuries will happen, and now that the West just got a hell of a lot bigger/faster/stronger, we will have players go down for extended periods of time. I would say Prust and Dorsett see regular ice time throughout the year and less if any at all of the press box.

I don't see Dorsett and Prust as press-box guys either, they make the team harder to play against, thus the acquisitions.

Higgins, Burrows and Hansen moved at some point over the next 12 months?
- LeftCoaster

Maybe, no and no is my guess as far as players being moved in the next year.

If we agree the Dorsett and Prust are not pressbox guys I think the writing is on the wall for Virtanen being returned to Juniors, which IMO is the best move from what I have seen of him.

I think Bennett is underrated as a 200 ft player and my biggest doubt was always whether he could play the same aggressive style against men. Very small sample size but so far he has been impressive.

I think Horvat is a tough player to make predictions because he seems to be a player that has been able to elevate his game above his perceived talents. If he can keep that up, watch out.
- belcherbd

I think I view guys differently than most on here, I've personally seen what guys can do with talent, commitment and work ethic over pure talent. Is Bennett more offensively talented than Horvat, IMO yes, is his overall game more talented than Horvat's…IMO no.

Being an NHL player is more than being talented, it's about the little things, the details you don't see on highlight reels. I played against Rod Brind'Amour when he played for Notre Dame Hounds, he was never the fastest, he was never the most talented, but no one could out-think or outwork him.

He was always in the right spots at the right times, very similar to Ron Francis in that he wasn't really noticeable but when you looked at the scoresheet after the game he had a goal and two helpers??

Bo's game is like Rod's IMO.

Virtanen, Kenins, Corrado will all see games this year, garuntee it. Injuries will happen, and now that the West just got a hell of a lot bigger/faster/stronger, we will have players go down for extended periods of time. I would say Prust and Dorsett see regular ice time throughout the year and less if any at all of the press box.
- Codes1087

For sure, the injury(s) I was referring to was during preseason that would allow Virtanen to get his 9 games in.

Maybe, no and no is my guess as far as players being moved in the next year is my guess.

If we agree the Dorsett and Prust are not pressbox guys I think the writing is on the wall for Virtanen being returned to Juniors, which IMO is the best move from what I have seen of him.
- belcherbd

Not garunteed. IF Virtanen (or by long shot any prospect) impresses enough, Benning and Co has said that they will have any opportunity to push for a spot, evidently making an older player tradeable. I really don't see Prust or Dorsett expendable as Benning views them as not only guys who will stick up and fight, but can tally some points and are more multi-purpose type players. The players who I see are expendable are Hansen/Higgins/Vey/Burrows(to a much lesser extent). IF these kids can push for a spot, then that is great as we can trade for some picks

isn't it nice though? This has been one of the nicest threads we have had in a while. I have actually found out that my thoughts and beliefs with this team are more aligned with the canucks fans on this site than they are with my real life friends.
- Codes1087

It's great, I'm sure some Oiler or Leaf fan will mess it all up.

It's great, I'm sure some Oiler or Leaf fan will mess it all up.
- A_SteamingLombardi

*knocks wood*

I think I view guys differently than most on here, I've personally seen what guys can do with talent, commitment and work ethic over pure talent. Is Bennett more offensively talented than Horvat, IMO yes, is his overall game more talented than Horvat's…IMO no.

Being an NHL player is more than be talented, it's about the little things, the details you don't see on highlight reels. I played against Rod Brind'Amour when he played for Notre Dame Hounds, he was never the fastest, he was never the most talented, but no one could out-think or outwork him.

He was always in the right spots at the right times, very similar to Ron Francis in that he wasn't really noticeable but when you looked at the scoresheet after the game he had a goal and two helpers??

Bo's game is like Rod's IMO.
- LeftCoaster

That would be amazing, have been lucky enough to meet Rod a few times since he has retired and the guy is an absolute fitness freak!!

I have heard him speak on a few occasions and he always preaches his success came from outworking everyone.

That would be amazing, have been lucky enough to meet Rod a few times since he has retired and the guy is an absolute fitness freak!!

I have heard him speak on a few occasions and he always preaches his success came from outworking everyone.
- belcherbd

Keep in mind I'm not talking about their point totals, I'm talking about their games and the success they had and will have.

Rod started in the league in the 89/90 season I think? Times and the NHL were different back then than they are now.

Not garunteed. IF Virtanen (or by long shot any prospect) impresses enough, Benning and Co has said that they will have any opportunity to push for a spot, evidently making an older player tradeable. I really don't see Prust or Dorsett expendable as Benning views them as not only guys who will stick up and fight, but can tally some points and are more multi-purpose type players. The players who I see are expendable are Hansen/Higgins/Vey/Burrows(to a much lesser extent). IF these kids can push for a spot, then that is great as we can trade for some picks
- Codes1087

I think those players you mentioned are harder to replace than you think, especially because what makes them good players likely won't be able to be filled by a rookie.

Hansen/Higgins/Burrows all are excellent 2 way players and IMO will be key in insulating Baertschi and Horvat if they are to have success this year. Virtanen won't be able to replace that, although he likely is close if not ready to be able to replace the physicality of Prust/Dorsett.
I just don't see a spot for Jake yet. I think Kenins or possibly Jensen (big (frank)ing if) could replace those players in the near future but the team still will need responsible players.

I'm not even confident that Virtanen will be able to outplay Grenier for that potential spot. Not a slight on Jake but young players need time.

I think those players you mentioned are harder to replace than you think, especially because what makes them good players likely won't be able to be filled by a rookie.

Hansen/Higgins/Burrows all are excellent 2 way players and IMO will be key in insulating Baertschi and Horvat if they are to have success this year. Virtanen won't be able to replace that, although he likely is close if not ready to be able to replace the physicality of Prust/Dorsett.
I just don't see a spot for Jake yet. I think Kenins or possibly Jensen (big (frank)ing if) could replace those players in the near future but the team still will need responsible players.

I'm not even confident that Virtanen will be able to outplay Grenier for that potential spot. Not a slight on Jake but young players need time.
- belcherbd

Oh I think those players are definitely hard to replace. I think its an absolute long-shot for either Grenier or Virtanen to beat them out of a job, but if they do, those are the players whom are in trouble. That being said, Burrows has a full NTC, and I a am not quite sure if Hansen or Higgins have modified or not, but it would be extremely hard.

Side note: I was reading a story that was post calder cup final and I believe Jordan Weal of the LA Kings posted that Gaunce and Jensen were two of the toughest guys to play against the entire series. Extremely encouraging to hear as those two have kind of gone silent around canuck chatter the last little while. Maybe one of them see's an opportunity to jump in during the seaon?

People are fans either way. I hate when someone nominates themselves as President of the fan club and decides who should and shouldn't be qualified as fans.

The reason they want a fast turnover because there is no hope in hell that the aging Burrows Higgins Hamhuis Vrbata Prust are going to lead us to a cup challenge. The people wanting the higher draft pick is so they can see their team as a contender and not a first round ass kicking receiver.

There is more than one way to skin a cat and just because you chose one way , doesn't mean the other ways are wrong
- VANTEL

This x 10. Anyone spending their free time on facking HB is probably more than a casual fan.

I don't see Dorsett and Prust as press-box guys either, they make the team harder to play against, thus the acquisitions.

Higgins, Burrows and Hansen moved at some point over the next 12 months?
- LeftCoaster

Agreed that Dorsett & Prust were not brought in to float in & out of the line up.
I think it is almost certain that 1 or 2 of the 3 you mentioned will be moved, especially if a young player makes a name for himself.

Pretty good review from the draftanalyst.com on Vancouver prospect Lukas Jasek...

Top Player: The Czechs generally display an aggressive and imaginative offense, and no player singularly personified the trend than LW Lukas Jasek (VAN 6th/2015), who carried not only the top line, but was the team’s most consistent and dynamic performer. Jasek’s pre-draft knock had been shift-to-shift consistency, but we saw a solid effort on most shifts and a penchant for creativity and momentum-changing plays. While we knew he had a scorer’s touch and an explosive first step, we were most impressed by his ability to drop his shoulder and beat defenders to the outside while taking the shortest possible route to the net.

This is a review from the 2015 U20 Four Nation tournament (Russia, Finland, Sweden, Czech Republic).

I would actually love it if Hamhuis pulls a Vermette. Traded by the TDL for a first, whether its a low first I don't care. Re-signed in the off season for a decent price to keep his kids in the same schools and keep his family in BC. That's a ton to ask a player who has been around a while and who wants to stay here but for the future of the team, it makes sense. Everybody pegging our older palyers for draft picks need to look at it more realistically. Hamhuis fetching a late 1st would be great, but a high to mid second I find is more around the right price. Vrby could get us a mid to late first rounder, and the trio of Higgins/Burrows/Hansen IMO would all fetch 3rd's with the exception of Burrows possibly nabbing a 2nd. Benning doesn't have the best history of getting good value and its impossible to call what the demand will be like come Feb.
- Codes1087

I actually think this is how it will play out.

I actually think this is how it will play out.
- mauryballstein

In a perfect world.. Hamhuis obviously loves being a Canuck, and his family and kids would probably like to stay in BC. It would be the perfect scenario but who knows.