Bust
- Streit2ThePoint

No love for Pitkanen?

guys who quip about guys complaining about fat guy "athletes" who need oxygen tanks buzz buzz buzz
- jmatchett383

guys who- ah, (frank) it

Who knows, if he bows out early in the season when he knows he can't play and someone else gets more time and provides a spark, things could have been different. I agree it likely wouldn't have changed anything, I just don't think we should be patting him on the back for hiding injuries from the team that clearly prevented him from playing well.
- funmaster18

Completely agree. I don't think this article was meant to pat him on the back, I think it was more informational on,why he was so ineffective. It does reveal something kind of sad imo, that some of these players will play through so much pain for the good of the team. It is valiant, but at some point t they need to remember that they are humans, and not property. They're not being taken out to the shed to be shot like the horse that can't pull the plow anymore... at least literally... maybe figuratively they do. Play through manageable pain, don't play through excruciating pain.

So being the grand optimist, let's say all 4 of Gagner, Laughton, Umberger and Vinny have good camps with no other injuries. What does Hakstol do? Should he sacrifice the traditional 4th line template to make room for everybody?

Raffl-Giroux-Voracek
Read-Couturier-Schenn
Umberger-Laughton-Simmonds
White/VV/PEB-Lecavalier-Gagner

So being the grand optimist, let's say all 4 of Gagner, Laughton, Umberger and Vinny have good camps with no other injuries. What does Hakstol do? Should he sacrifice the traditional 4th line template to make room for everybody?

Raffl-Giroux-Voracek
Read-Couturier-Schenn
Umberger-Laughton-Simmonds
White/VV/PEB-Lecavalier-Gagner
- Baxter27

I honestly dont think Vinny sniffs any ice time unless there are major injury issues with the team.

I honestly dont think Vinny sniffs any ice time unless there are major injury issues with the team.
- hereticpride

I'd say that's the most likely scenario but you never know. It's his last chance to re-model or resurge his career.

I honestly dont think Vinny sniffs any ice time unless there are major injury issues with the team.
- hereticpride

They have to play him if they have any hopes of trading him.

I don't like it any more than anyone else does.

2 posts are not better than one

They have to play him if they have any hopes of trading him.

I don't like it any more than anyone else does.
- mayorofangrytown

I have doubts he can even play himself into trade talks

I'm still more pissed that my fantasy team lost. The Eagles shot themselves in the feet so often last night they ran out of toes, and still were right there at the end with a chance to win. They simply execute better and avoid the dumb penalties and they'll be OK.

(frank) the Minnesota Vikings, their coach and Teddy Bridgewater. All they had to do was hold Carlos Hyde under 21 points for me & he ran wild. It was like Madden. I hope they go 0-16, all get cut or fired and end up as trashmen
- Jsaquella

(frank)ing preach. I still had a 26 point lead after Matt Ryan did less than expected. I am missing Leveon Bell for the first two weeks and my team was still the highest scoring fantasy team in my league...until Hyde put up the numbers he did. I really wanted to scratch out a win considering I'm missing the best player in the league. I have a deep resentment for all things Vikings now. (frank) the Minnesota Vikings, (frank) their show on the History Channel, (frank) Beowulf.

I have doubts he can even play himself into trade talks
- BulliesPhan87

Me too. But at least at the start of the season they're going to have to try to find a way to get him minutes.

(frank)ing preach. I still had a 26 point lead after Matt Ryan did less than expected. I am missing Leveon Bell for the first two weeks and my team was still the highest scoring fantasy team in my league...until Hyde put up the numbers he did. I really wanted to scratch out a win considering I'm missing the best player in the league. I have a deep resentment for all things Vikings now. (frank) the Minnesota Vikings, (frank) their show on the History Channel, (frank) Beowulf.
- Mononoke

They also pre-empted Darkness Radio out of Minnesota last night.

any updates from rookie camp today?

Couple of alarming things RE: Umberger.

1. Was Umberger really that selfish to put himself ahead of the team? He knew he was injured, and was hurting the team on the ice. Yet he didn't go to the team and tell them?

2. The Flyers shouldn't have relied on Umberger to bring the injury information to them. Injury or not, Umberger should have been sitting in the press box due to his performance. Did the Flyers not have anyone they could put on the ice better than a half crippled RJ Umberger?

Couple of alarming things RE: Umberger.

1. Was Umberger really that selfish to put himself ahead of the team? He knew he was injured, and was hurting the team on the ice. Yet he didn't go to the team and tell them?

2. The Flyers shouldn't have relied on Umberger to bring the injury information to them. Injury or not, Umberger should have been sitting in the press box due to his performance. Did the Flyers not have anyone they could put on the ice better than a have crippled RJ Umberger?
- PLindbergh31

When he was finally scratched he was replaced by Vinny, so maybe not.

I don't know if there was a lot of honesty between players and management in the locker room last season. Hopefully that'll change this season with everyone getting a clean slate with a new coach.

When he was finally scratched he was replaced by Vinny, so maybe not.

I don't know if there was a lot of honesty between players and management in the locker room last season. Hopefully that'll change this season with everyone getting a clean slate with a new coach.
- Feanor

I hope so. Maybe if Umberger finally is healthy (and I'll believe it when I see it) he can be a useful player. I'm not very optimistic about that.

Was hoping there would be some camp invites to create competition. Seems like the roster is basically set.

I hope so. Maybe if Umberger finally is healthy (and I'll believe it when I see it) he can be a useful player. I'm not very optimistic about that.

Was hoping there would be some camp invites to create competition. Seems like the roster is basically set.
- PLindbergh31

What's absolutely crazy about it is that they had some inkling that he was nursing some type of injury -- the degree of which we will never know.

But that's what LTIR is for -- again, I don't fault the player for getting hurt and trying to play through it, though I wish he had been more honest.

But his performance is what should've red-flagged the world that something wasn't right -- how in the hell does he get to Game 70 with the way he played? That's crazy.

That question should have been asked after Game 10-15, then you look at LTIR and bring someone in. You read the story, and there's no way they couldn't have found something seriously wrong with him at numerous points before Game 70.

He didn't have to say anything -- he was so bad for some stretches, he should never have been in a position where he had to come forward. They should've been asking him some pointed questions about his health, because no healthy NHL player should be as ineffective as he was for stretches of games.

What's absolutely crazy about it is that they had some inkling that he was nursing some type of injury -- the degree of which we will never know.

But that's what LTIR is for -- again, I don't fault the player for getting hurt and trying to play through it, though I wish he had been more honest.

But his performance is what should've red-flagged the world that something wasn't right -- how in the hell does he get to Game 70 with the way he played? That's crazy.

That question should have been asked after Game 10-15, then you look at LTIR and bring someone in. You read the story, and there's no way they couldn't have found something seriously wrong with him at numerous points before Game 70.

He didn't have to say anything -- he was so bad for some stretches, he should never have been in a position where he had to come forward. They should've been asking him some pointed questions about his health, because no healthy NHL player should be as ineffective as he was for stretches of games.
- AllInForFlyers

Couldn't agree more.

I hope so. Maybe if Umberger finally is healthy (and I'll believe it when I see it) he can be a useful player. I'm not very optimistic about that.

Was hoping there would be some camp invites to create competition. Seems like the roster is basically set.
- PLindbergh31

Seems like Laughton and Manning are battling it out for the 23rd spot.

What's absolutely crazy about it is that they had some inkling that he was nursing some type of injury -- the degree of which we will never know.

But that's what LTIR is for -- again, I don't fault the player for getting hurt and trying to play through it, though I wish he had been more honest.

But his performance is what should've red-flagged the world that something wasn't right -- how in the hell does he get to Game 70 with the way he played? That's crazy.

That question should have been asked after Game 10-15, then you look at LTIR and bring someone in. You read the story, and there's no way they couldn't have found something seriously wrong with him at numerous points before Game 70.

He didn't have to say anything -- he was so bad for some stretches, he should never have been in a position where he had to come forward. They should've been asking him some pointed questions about his health, because no healthy NHL player should be as ineffective as he was for stretches of games.
- AllInForFlyers

The Flyers knew he had the hip issue when they traded for him. They didn't want to call up any of the young players, and the only other option was Lecavalier, who honestly, wasn't better. Perhaps the Flyers were asking Umberger how he felt physically, and he was not forthcoming. Sometimes a player struggles for other reasons besides injury. Even as bad as Umberger looked, I leaned more towards he just didn't have it anymore. I'm amazed that he could play at all, with the injuries we later found out he had.

Seems like Laughton and Manning are battling it out for the 23rd spot.
- Feanor

I don't mind Manning being the 7th dman, in and out of the lineup, but I prefer Laughton either be in the lineup as a regular, or start with the Phantoms... Having him sit in the press box doesn't really serve a purpose.

The Flyers knew he had the hip issue when they traded for him. They didn't want to call up any of the young players, and the only other option was Lecavalier, who honestly, wasn't better. Perhaps the Flyers were asking Umberger how he felt physically, and he was not forthcoming. Sometimes a player struggles for other reasons besides injury. Even as bad as Umberger looked, I leaned more towards he just didn't have it anymore. I'm amazed that he could play at all, with the injuries we later found out he had.
- MJL

I mean, here's the thing about it: People may truly feel that I bag on Brayden Schenn a lot, but I would never go so far as to say that he isn't an NHL player. Even when Schenn looks lost, you can still see, more often than not, he's an NHL player.

Umberger looked like had no business being in the NHL for the majority of last year. And yes, I have to believe that injuries played a huge role -- I hadn't seen a ton of him in Columbus, but he was nowhere near that brutal, even when he struggled that last season.

That's really what I'm saying -- it's two-edged. Last year is done now. It's unfortunate that it played out how it did.

But -- and it's a huge but, and it's still September and all things are good and possible -- it is possible that he contributes this year. I don't expect it to be $4.6 million worth, and I don't judge him like that.

But he has always a good defensive forward, a diligent backchecker and systems-focused player. If he simply do that, with his size, and be strong on the wall and on the puck at 10-14 minutes a night, I'd be fine with that, because I do believe -- if he can skate well enough -- that he is an NHL player on the defensive side of the puck, and I do like his size.

Do these players not go through a physical before a trade? Even if he was told he had "Hockey Back" that should have been a factor.

Do these players not go through a physical before a trade? Even if he was told he had "Hockey Back" that should have been a factor.
- Jimmygrazz

I feel like the trade was hastily made. It's like they really wanted to move Hartnell out

I feel like the trade was hastily made. It's like they really wanted to move Hartnell out
- PhillySportsGuy

That's a great point.

I agree with that almost sight unseen.