Another reason to like the guy.
- Scoob

I was praying that Montrel would piss him off by trying to low ball him and we'd get him..

Also, remember when Montreal debated on keeping Price or Halak? At the time, I wanted us to get Price if they could...

Somehow I missed this first time round, but you're criticizing Hextall for hiring Hakstol because he coached his son in college. But it's fine for Shanhan to hire his former coach as coach and hire his former GM as GM?

Those are some bizarre double standards.
- Feanor

You think comparing hiring a college coach with no NHL experience to a hiring a potential HOF GM a bizarre double standard? It wasn't a criticism, it was a comparison.

I don't know what to do with that so I'll just leave it.

If Hakstol's lack of NHL experience was the issue, why did you bring up Brett Hextall? The two things are unrelated.

Hiring a college coach he barely knew was a very bold move. Just as bold as Toronto hiring a president who had no experience running an NHL team.

Shanahan has hired Kyle Dubas, Dale Hunter, Mike Babcock, Lou Lamoriello and Sheldon Keefe.

That's not a bad management team.

I think Babcock will make them grateful they held onto Phaneuf.
- mayorofangrytown

When you take each individual, in a vacuum, it looks great.

You have to see if they can work together and what happens when there is a difference in opinion (and there will be).

Guys like those don't rise to that level because they are not opinionated and just blend. The idea that Shanahan is some sort of management lion tamer is a bit premature.

Toronto is going in a completely new direction. No one can judge what they're doing yet but bringing on the personel they have in the front office and coaching staff all the way down to the Marlies should make most fans envious on reputation alone. We'll all have to wait to see how it comes together.
- mayorofangrytown

The Flyers haven't been moving in a completely new direction, with a new GM, and a emphasis on developing players for the future, rather than the previous management team who placed a heavy emphasis on winning now? The Flyers hired a coach out of the NCAA. How often has that happened?

Marti will be the surprise player in camp and get rave reviews.

Shanahan has hired Kyle Dubas, Dale Hunter, Mike Babcock, Lou Lamoriello and Sheldon Keefe.

That's not a bad management team.

I think Babcock will make them grateful they held onto Phaneuf.
- mayorofangrytown

What were Kyle Dubas credentials and experience in running an NHL team before being hired by the Leafs? How about Shananhan?

When you take each individual, in a vacuum, it looks great.

You have to see if they can work together and what happens when there is a difference in opinion (and there will be).

Guys like those don't rise to that level because they are not opinionated and just blend. The idea that Shanahan is some sort of management lion tamer is a bit premature.
- johndewar

I did say you have to wait and see, they're just getting started.

If Hakstol's lack of NHL experience was the issue, why did you bring up Brett Hextall? The two things are unrelated.

Hiring a college coach he barely knew was a very bold move. Just as bold as Toronto hiring a president who had no experience running an NHL team.
- Feanor

How are they unrelated? It's all about the same hire. Hextall was exposed to him through his son. He hired him as an inexperienced NHL coach. How can that not be related?

If you think the Flyers are doing great things I don't disagree. There are a lot of teams taking fresh new starts into the season. I'm just comparing two of them. What's the issue? You think I'm being unfair in my opinion of the Flyers moves? Why? Because I don't know anything about Hakstol as a coach? I don't.

You don't think that Toronto has made bold statement moves the last two seasons to their management team? They looked inexperienced last year and they answered that with an over abunace of experience this off season. If you disagree that's fine.

I don't know why you find this all so disconcerting. It's just an opinion.

How are they unrelated? It's all about the same hire. Hextall was exposed to him through his son. He hired him as an inexperienced NHL coach. How can that not be related?

If you think the Flyers are doing great things I don't disagree. There are a lot of teams taking fresh new starts into the season. I'm just comparing two of them. What's the issue? You think I'm being unfair in my opinion of the Flyers moves? Why? Because I don't know anything about Hakstol as a coach? I don't.

You don't think that Toronto has made bold statement moves the last two seasons to their management team? They looked inexperienced last year and they answered that with an over abunace of experience this off season. If you disagree that's fine.

I don't know why you find this all so disconcerting. It's just an opinion.
- mayorofangrytown

There's no doubt that Hextall became aware of Hakstol because his son played Hockey there. In terms of why a decision was made, on which direction to take the team, and who to hire, that Hextall's son played there is non-factor in my opinion. Hextall hired Haksto because he liked what he saw of him as a coach. It's really not much different than scouting a player.

Hextall's management style and philosophy was mostly formed as the Asst. GM of the Stanely Cup winning LA Kings. I think it's obvious he is following the same formula that Lombardi used in LA. I think Hextall had far better credentials as a hockey manager than Dubas or Shanahan had. Hiring Hakstol is certainly thinking outside the box, and is not a regular occurrence.

I don't see how Toronto's moves are declared "bold" while the Flyers moves are same old, same old.

I hope you're wrong and it wasn't him. Not that I want anyone else to be hurt, just that I'm rooting for him this year.
- Scoob

The suicide drill part and grimacing afterwards...I'm positive it was him. Not sure whether it was him on the goal. That happened right when I first went to that side and couldn't quite see the number on the helmet. I'm guessing Vinnie based on height/appearance.

But hopefully he wasn't hurt after the suicides. Maybe a cramp?

There's no doubt that Hextall became aware of Hakstol because his son played Hockey there. In terms of why a decision was made, on which direction to take the team, and who to hire, that Hextall's son played there is non-factor in my opinion. Hextall hired Haksto because he liked what he saw of him as a coach. It's really not much different than scouting a player.

Hextall's management style and philosophy was mostly formed as the Asst. GM of the Stanely Cup winning LA Kings. I think it's obvious he is following the same formula that Lombardi used in LA. I think Hextall had far better credentials as a hockey manager than Dubas or Shanahan had. Hiring Hakstol is certainly thinking outside the box, and is not a regular occurrence.
- MJL

I didn't post anything that disagrees with that.

Ron Hextall is the GM. Shanahan and Dubas are not the GM. Lamoriello is the GM. If they thought they had the experience to be GMs they wouldn't have hired Lou.

How are they unrelated? It's all about the same hire. Hextall was exposed to him through his son. He hired him as an inexperienced NHL coach. How can that not be related?

If you think the Flyers are doing great things I don't disagree. There are a lot of teams taking fresh new starts into the season. I'm just comparing two of them. What's the issue? You think I'm being unfair in my opinion of the Flyers moves? Why? Because I don't know anything about Hakstol as a coach? I don't.
- mayorofangrytown

It's unfair to claim that the Leafs are making bold moves and the Flyers aren't. It's not night and day at all. The hiring of Hakstol was the boldest move made by an NHL GM this whole offseason. The same GM also brought in a new AHL coach and two new goalie coaches, so there are just as many fresh faces here as in Toronto.

The connection between Hextall and Hakstol before he was hired was far more tenuous than the ones between Shanahan and his former coach and GM. And yet only one of those connections was mentioned, and framed as being a negative. It's not hard to see the agenda behind that.

I didn't post anything that disagrees with that.

Ron Hextall is the GM. Shanahan and Dubas are not the GM. Lamoriello is the GM. If they thought they had the experience to be GMs they wouldn't have hired Lou.
- mayorofangrytown

That's a good point.

It's unfair to claim that the Leafs are making bold moves and the Flyers aren't. It's not night and day at all. The hiring of Hakstol was the boldest move made by an NHL GM this whole offseason. The same GM also brought in a new AHL coach and two new goalie coaches, so there are just as many fresh faces here as in Toronto.

The connection between Hextall and Hakstol before he was hired was far more tenuous than the ones between Shanahan and his former coach and GM. And yet only one of those connections was mentioned, and framed as being a negative. It's not hard to see the agenda behind that.
- Feanor

I didn't frame it as a negative. What exactly is my agenda because I'm currently unaware I had one.

Apparently you think it's ripping the Flyers. All I did was compare the moves the Flyers made to the headline grabbing moves of Toronto's off season. At no point did I dismiss the Flyers or even trash their moves. I think you're reading into this with too much of a defensive posture.

That's a good point.
- MJL

I think the return for Kessel screamed that right in their face. Lamoriello would never have come away with so little during that trade scenario.

I think the return for Kessel screamed that right in their face. Lamoriello would never have come away with so little during that trade scenario.
- mayorofangrytown

Perhaps, I think that's evidence that maybe Dubas and Shanahan aren't the cat's meow. Like I said previously, and I'll admit that there is an appearance of bias here, but I'll take the Flyers management team over Toronto's.

I think the return for Kessel screamed that right in their face. Lamoriello would never have come away with so little during that trade scenario.
- mayorofangrytown

If we didn't have so much cap tied up in Vinny, RJ and AMac I would've lined up to pay that price for Kessel. Pens got themselves a a good deal there.

If we didn't have so much cap tied up in Vinny, RJ and AMac I would've lined up to pay that price for Kessel. Pens got themselves a a good deal there.
- hereticpride

The Blackhawks are paying Keith, Seabrook, and Shaw, less than the Flyers are paying the trio of suck. Think about that for a second.

Perhaps, I think that's evidence that maybe Dubas and Shanahan aren't the cat's meow. Like I said previously, and I'll admit that there is an appearance of bias here, but I'll take the Flyers management team over Toronto's.
- MJL

I think it's exactly what you said. Inexperience. They recognized it and corrected it. After three years Dubas may be ready to take over. Who knows. I think they have a nice set up. I know more about their coaches. If this year is their true jumping off point I think their fans have something they haven't had in a decade or more... hope.

I'm looking forward to watching Hakstol. That was my first point today, that my real optimism for this season was the coach.

If we didn't have so much cap tied up in Vinny, RJ and AMac I would've lined up to pay that price for Kessel. Pens got themselves a a good deal there.
- hereticpride

Rutherford's not that good of a GM. He took advantage of team's lacking cap space and a GM by committee in Toronto. Even with that I find it hard to imagine anyone signing off on that trade while choking on part of the contract. Of course the Leafs have lots of space and plenty of money.

I was praying that Montrel would piss him off by trying to low ball him and we'd get him..
- Hextall271

Same here

If we didn't have so much cap tied up in Vinny, RJ and AMac I would've lined up to pay that price for Kessel. Pens got themselves a a good deal there.
- hereticpride

I wouldn't have. I'd rather not take on another high cap hit player, unless it was a defenseman.

Same here
- Scoob

ditto.

Kane is going to be at Blackhawks camp. (frank)ing absurd.