umm Kris? uh yeah.. thats not how you wear a mouth guard
- Dozzer

Makes Clarkson look good - he was pathetic while he was here

Agreed. But what was done was done - Kessel didn't trade two firsts and second to bring himself to Toronto, and he didn't refuse to play with a proper 1st line centre.

Toronto fans could never get past the bad trade/bad timing to bring him here.


Not that I can think of. But Canadians are biased: we always think that centres are the cornerstones. It's how we build hockey teams.

Who was the last dominant Canadian winger? Kariya?
- Atomic Wedgie

Clarkson










til he was a Leaf
had to be said

Its on Management
they built a tire fire and watched it burn and said there was no fire.
- senstroll

Every fall for four years it would look like the fire was out - no flames, but people close enough could tell it was still smouldering and only a matter of time until it burst into flames again, and they just ignored it.

An effing classic case of Leafs Nation lunch bucket worship.

The guy did one thing above average: take faceoffs. He wasn't even particularly wonderful at it -really just above average.

But oh boy did we love him. We loved him to death.

Until we replaced him the next year with McClement, who was fbetter at faceoffs, cheaper and better.

Of course, McClement still wasn't a good player...
- Atomic Wedgie

yeah.. i remember when carlyle tried using mcclement in third line situations and wow.. did he ever suck at that

bottom 6 guys need to be complete players.. some offense, good defense.. do all the lil things right kinda guys

you said it perfectly earlier in the thread regarding kessel.. he was put into a core piece role.. he isnt a core guy.. guys you build teams around need to have compete at both ends of the ice.. kessel will flourish in pittsburgh because he will essentially be there to be crosby's weapon.. all he will have to do there is do what he does.. be an offensive threat.. not lead, not be the guy the team leans on.. just go out there and score Phil.

if Burke hadnt mis-pegged him.. he could have had that role here and likely thrived .. but..he accepted his contracts.. accepting the role being placed as a core guy.. so yes.. while the blame falls on the leafs management for mis-casting him, part of that blame falls on him as well for accepting the role and then not living up to it

An effing classic case of Leafs Nation lunch bucket worship.

The guy did one thing above average: take faceoffs. He wasn't even particularly wonderful at it -really just above average.

But oh boy did we love him. We loved him to death.

Until we replaced him the next year with McClement, who was fbetter at faceoffs, cheaper and better.

Of course, McClement still wasn't a good player...
- Atomic Wedgie

Are you part of our lunch bucket crew?

yeah.. i remember when carlyle tried using mcclement in third line situations and wow.. did he ever suck at that

bottom 6 guys need to be complete players.. some offense, good defense.. do all the lil things right kinda guys

you said it perfectly earlier in the thread regarding kessel.. he was put into a core piece role.. he isnt a core guy.. guys you build teams around need to have compete at both ends of the ice.. kessel will flourish in pittsburgh because he will essentially be there to be crosby's weapon.. all he will have to do there is do what he does.. be an offensive threat.. not lead, not be the guy the team leans on.. just go out there and score Phil.

if Burke hadnt mis-pegged him.. he could have had that role here and likely thrived .. but..he accepted his contracts.. accepting the role being placed as a core guy.. so yes.. while the blame falls on the leafs management for mis-casting him, part of that blame falls on him as well for accepting the role and then not living up to it
- Dozzer

C'mon, he was very young when they traded for him.
All those traits could have been instilled, but for some reason management and coaching chose to let him do what ever he wanted.
Will be different in Pittsburg

yeah.. i remember when carlyle tried using mcclement in third line situations and wow.. did he ever suck at that

bottom 6 guys need to be complete players.. some offense, good defense.. do all the lil things right kinda guys

you said it perfectly earlier in the thread regarding kessel.. he was put into a core piece role.. he isnt a core guy.. guys you build teams around need to have compete at both ends of the ice.. kessel will flourish in pittsburgh because he will essentially be there to be crosby's weapon.. all he will have to do there is do what he does.. be an offensive threat.. not lead, not be the guy the team leans on.. just go out there and score Phil.

if Burke hadnt mis-pegged him.. he could have had that role here and likely thrived .. but..he accepted his contracts.. accepting the role being placed as a core guy.. so yes.. while the blame falls on the leafs management for mis-casting him, part of that blame falls on him as well for accepting the role and then not living up to it
- Dozzer

Yet Kessel is being paid like a core piece - which the Pens couldn't afford - maybe Shanahan is a spy from Pittsburgh?

wow

you seriously think the leafs will be crippled by a 1.2 million dollar ding?

the bitterness that unites us all indeed
- Dozzer

For me, it's not so much the cap space, rather the fact we'll still be paying Kessel for several years while he's scoring goals for another organization. I hate that. We didn't even retain salary on David (frank)ing Clarkson, for Christ sakes!

yeah.. i remember when carlyle tried using mcclement in third line situations and wow.. did he ever suck at that

bottom 6 guys need to be complete players.. some offense, good defense.. do all the lil things right kinda guys

you said it perfectly earlier in the thread regarding kessel.. he was put into a core piece role.. he isnt a core guy.. guys you build teams around need to have compete at both ends of the ice.. kessel will flourish in pittsburgh because he will essentially be there to be crosby's weapon.. all he will have to do there is do what he does.. be an offensive threat.. not lead, not be the guy the team leans on.. just go out there and score Phil.

if Burke hadnt mis-pegged him.. he could have had that role here and likely thrived .. but..he accepted his contracts.. accepting the role being placed as a core guy.. so yes.. while the blame falls on the leafs management for mis-casting him, part of that blame falls on him as well for accepting the role and then not living up to it
- Dozzer

For that matter, management and coaching let JVR and Blozak do what ever they wanted too.
That also will be different this year

Are you part of our lunch bucket crew?
- Garnie

He's a lower-bowl sushi eater. GET HIM!

C'mon, he was very young when they traded for him.
All those traits could have been instilled, but for some reason management and coaching chose to let him do what ever he wanted.
Will be different in Pittsburg
- the_eye

if he was soooooo good why wasnt boston willing to go all out to keep him?

here's the thing about picking up a guy in trade

why are they even available?

you need to ask that question.. for RFAs especially

i'd say that the mass majority of cup winning teams in the last decade have been teams that drafted their core group.. or at least the bulk of their core group

yeah.. i remember when carlyle tried using mcclement in third line situations and wow.. did he ever suck at that

bottom 6 guys need to be complete players.. some offense, good defense.. do all the lil things right kinda guys

you said it perfectly earlier in the thread regarding kessel.. he was put into a core piece role.. he isnt a core guy.. guys you build teams around need to have compete at both ends of the ice.. kessel will flourish in pittsburgh because he will essentially be there to be crosby's weapon.. all he will have to do there is do what he does.. be an offensive threat.. not lead, not be the guy the team leans on.. just go out there and score Phil.

if Burke hadnt mis-pegged him.. he could have had that role here and likely thrived .. but..he accepted his contracts.. accepting the role being placed as a core guy.. so yes.. while the blame falls on the leafs management for mis-casting him, part of that blame falls on him as well for accepting the role and then not living up to it
- Dozzer

bang (frank)in on, except I don't know who would say 'thanks but, I don't deserve 8 mill because I don't want to spend my summer running up Siberian mountains with an ox sled strapped to my back - how's $5 mill and I'll just put up some points?'.

They tried to fit an offense only, get by on natural gifts/don't have to work too hard, type square peg into the round core/leadership hole, and that sets the standard for the rest of the team.

if he was soooooo good why wasnt boston willing to go all out to keep him?

here's the thing about picking up a guy in trade

why are they even available?

you need to ask that question.. for RFAs especially

i'd say that the mass majority of cup winning teams in the last decade have been teams that drafted their core group.. or at least the bulk of their core group
- Dozzer

If i recall it was a cap issue, no?

For me, it's not so much the cap space, rather the fact we'll still be paying Kessel for several years while he's scoring goals for another organization. I hate that. We didn't even retain salary on David (frank)ing Clarkson, for Christ sakes!
- Phenom

because in the clarkson deal the leafs were the team doing columbus a favour.. contracts were about equal.. only now at least columbus gets someone they can put on the ice

i am not too worried about the cap space.. as for the money.. its not mine so meh.

He's a lower-bowl sushi eater. GET HIM!
- markmark

Get the stakes and cross

yeah.. i remember when carlyle tried using mcclement in third line situations and wow.. did he ever suck at that

bottom 6 guys need to be complete players.. some offense, good defense.. do all the lil things right kinda guys

you said it perfectly earlier in the thread regarding kessel.. he was put into a core piece role.. he isnt a core guy.. guys you build teams around need to have compete at both ends of the ice.. kessel will flourish in pittsburgh because he will essentially be there to be crosby's weapon.. all he will have to do there is do what he does.. be an offensive threat.. not lead, not be the guy the team leans on.. just go out there and score Phil.

if Burke hadnt mis-pegged him.. he could have had that role here and likely thrived .. but..he accepted his contracts.. accepting the role being placed as a core guy.. so yes.. while the blame falls on the leafs management for mis-casting him, part of that blame falls on him as well for accepting the role and then not living up to it
- Dozzer

Weird: I agreed with everything you wrote until I got to "...he accepted the contracts..."

1. Don't ever blame a player for signing a contract for as much money as they can.

2. Kessel did not "accept the role" of being a core guy. He accepted the role of being Phil Kessel.

3. I reject the notion that it's Phil Kessel's fault that we didn't have a proper core.

To make a cloudy analogy:

To make a well balanced breakfast, you need eggs, milk, bread, sausage, hashbrowns, coffee and OJ.

Burkie went out and got sausage (Kessel). And some no name hashbrowns (Phaneuf). That's all Burkie did.

You were always going to need the sausage. You were always going to need the hashbrowns (yeah, you probably shoulda bought better hashbrowns, but there weren't better hashbrowns at the grocery store).

Throwing out the sausage doesn't get you any closer to a well balanced breakfast.

Trying to make the sausage into OJ doesn't get you any closer to a well balanced breakfast.

You need all those ingredients.

Complaining that the sausage isn't OJ or bread or milk is just stupid. That's not why you bought the sausage.

if he was soooooo good why wasnt boston willing to go all out to keep him?

here's the thing about picking up a guy in trade

why are they even available?

you need to ask that question.. for RFAs especially

i'd say that the mass majority of cup winning teams in the last decade have been teams that drafted their core group.. or at least the bulk of their core group
- Dozzer

Or maybe Boston thought he was damaged after the cancer and shoulder surgeries

If i recall it was a cap issue, no?
- the_eye

I believe he wanted more than Krejci. And Chiarelli wasn't ready to do it.

Not 100% sure, but I think they were both signing at the same time (or close).

C'mon, he was very young when they traded for him.
All those traits could have been instilled, but for some reason management and coaching chose to let him do what ever he wanted.
Will be different in Pittsburg
- the_eye

If it's different in Pittsburgh it's because Crosby and Malkin can't do whatever they want. And if the core players can't, the hired gun can't either.

Yes - again; the problem was more the mishandling of Phil by Leafs mgmt than Phil being Phil. If he could get away with things other players couldn't, it's because they didn't stop it.

bang (frank)in on, except I don't know who would say 'thanks but, I don't deserve 8 mill because I don't want to spend my summer running up Siberian mountains with an ox sled strapped to my back - how's $5 mill and I'll just put up some points?'.

They tried to fit an offense only, get by on natural gifts/don't have to work too hard, type square peg into the round core/leadership hole, and that sets the standard for the rest of the team.
- 1979AD

agree 100% you cant blame him for taking the money.. but at the same time he has to realize that holy poop.. i gotta give 110% non stop with or without the puck.. this is my team.. and this is my chance to step up

he didnt

what the pens are paying him, 6.5million, is bang on for a one dimensional top end goal scorer.

Weird: I agreed with everything you wrote until I got to "...he accepted the contracts..."

1. Don't ever blame a player for signing a contract for as much money as they can.

2. Kessel did not "accept the role" of being a core guy. He accepted the role of being Phil Kessel.

3. I reject the notion that it's Phil Kessel's fault that we didn't have a proper core.

To make a cloudy analogy:

To make a well balanced breakfast, you need eggs, milk, bread, sausage, hashbrowns, coffee and OJ.

Burkie went out and got sausage (Kessel). And some no name hashbrowns (Phaneuf). That's all Burkie did.

You were always going to need the sausage. You were always going to need the hashbrowns (yeah, you probably shoulda bought better hashbrowns, but there weren't better hashbrowns at the grocery store).

Throwing out the sausage doesn't get you any closer to a well balanced breakfast.

Trying to make the sausage into OJ doesn't get you any closer to a well balanced breakfast.

You need all those ingredients.

Complaining that the sausage isn't OJ or bread or milk is just stupid. That's not why you bought the sausage.
- Atomic Wedgie

If you leave your sausage out on the counter too long it starts to get fuzzy and once it gets fuzzy you have to get rid of it.

I don't see it being an actual issue. We become like Chicago and trade away a Saad for some pieces?
- Aaron_85

Saad is overrated. I bet you Dano ends up being the best piece of that trade.

I believe he wanted more than Krejci. And Chiarelli wasn't ready to do it.

Not 100% sure, but I think they were both signing at the same time (or close).
- Pecafan Fan

He wanted 5 and Boston didn't have the cap room, probably didn't want to make the cap room because of his health issues.
Its freaken Boston, did you not see what they did over the summer.

If you leave your sausage out on the counter too long it starts to get fuzzy and once it gets fuzzy you have to get rid of it.
- 1979AD

agree 100% you cant blame him for taking the money.. but at the same time he has to realize that holy poop.. i gotta give 110% non stop with or without the puck.. this is my team.. and this is my chance to step up

he didnt

what the pens are paying him, 6.5million, is bang on for a one dimensional top end goal scorer.
- Dozzer

They should have realized he wasn't the type of person who was going to step up. And yeah - it's an ideal situation for Philip and the Penguins.

Just don't expect him to keep going hard to the net like he did in that pre-season game.