I think the overall consensus though is that the majority of the fan base probably doesn't care one way or the other. Those of us on here aren't what I'd consider "the general fan base." We're all quite a bit more in tune with the team and care about the "little things" more than most.

I'm not saying I agree with why they're not on or that I like it. I just don't think it's as big of a gaffe by the organization as some think it is.
- HonkFortheGoose

I would agree except for there are teams both in Canada and the United States that are televising their televising their games far more frequently than Buffalo, who has the reputation where both the fanbase and the organization love to remind everyone how great their hockey market is. This is one of the ways the organization should act like it, and not just say it.

What part of the value though? What they would have given up for Lehner or O'Reilly?
- HonkFortheGoose

31st overall pick either as part of a package or by itself should be able to get you a better (or rather more reliable) return than a goalie coming off another bad year with concussion issues. Those are usually your "buy low/sell high" guys.

He's paid this price strictly because it's his guy. If he had the career he's had with any other team Murray probably doesn't pick up the phone.

This is a moot point because ottawa wouldnt take anything less than our higher pick. The fact that Murray was willing to give up 22nd overall for a goalie that still has alot to prove is where i get upset.
- MCGUIZZY

No, it's not. Look at it this way. Switch the scenarios of the trades. Had the O'Reilly deal gone down first and Colorado had the same demands that Ottawa did, then 21 would have been part of the O'Reilly deal. The best Ottawa could have asked for at that point would be 31, as it would have been the highest pick we still had.

There is plenty of room now.

I'm not ready to run Lehner out of town. In fact, I have no issue with us acquiring him. I do have an issue with the way Murray has seemingly handed out draft picks for nothing in a few instances.

2nd rounder for Gorges who's career could be over (his injury is tough to recover from)

1st rounder for a concussed goalie.

2 2nd rounders, and a 4-6 guy in McNabb for a 4th liner and someone still in college who had a rough season.
- sbroads24

If, and I emphasize if, Tim Murray gets fired after little to no success here, this will be the move everyone will talk about two decades from now.

If, and I emphasize if, Tim Murray gets fired after little to no success here, this will be the move everyone will talk about two decades from now.
- buffalofan19

Really? I'd have to think Konecny killing it for philly would get talked about more.

31st overall pick either as part of a package or by itself should be able to get you a better (or rather more reliable) return than a goalie coming off another bad year with concussion issues. Those are usually your "buy low/sell high" guys.

He's paid this price strictly because it's his guy. If he had the career he's had with any other team Murray probably doesn't pick up the phone.
- Sabresfan-365

That's perfectly fair. I'm not a huge fan of the fact that they gave up a 1st rounder for a goalie either, but I'm not about to crucify said goalie like many others have around here before he's even gotten 10 regular season games under his belt for us.

We also have to keep in mind that the GMs in the league had taken notice of the things Murray had done and probably the rumblings they were hearing about other potential moves. The price for anything we were going to do was higher because of that, IMO.

It's safe to say that Murray is living in the....

Ya'll are nuts...

First, Kocency is a proven valuable player that we would need because he is going to be a late gem over a goalie here.

Now, The college kid in Fasching has just as high of praise for him but is still young.. oh him... he had a rough year and is a throw away now.


COLLECT ALL THE DRAFT PICKS AND PROSPECTS!!!

TRADE PICKS FOR VETS TO HELP THE PROSPECTS!!!

DON'T RUSH THE PROSPECTS!!!

Oh wait... poop... you traded these picks for valuable vets but I would of rather of had another unproven kid who was 2-3 years away.

make up your mind people.

Really? I'd have to think Konecny killing it for philly would get talked about more.
- Sabresfan-365

I don't think so only because there was no guarantee the Sabres would have picked Konecny even if the trade isn't made.

Two 2nds and an NHL defenseman (McNabb was good enough to be here when he was traded) for a college player and a 4th liner is one of those moves that you just scratch your head at if said college player doesn't live up to his potential.

That's perfectly fair. I'm not a huge fan of the fact that they gave up a 1st rounder for a goalie either, but I'm not about to crucify said goalie like many others have around here before he's even gotten 10 regular season games under his belt for us.

We also have to keep in mind that the GMs in the league had taken notice of the things Murray had done and probably the rumblings they were hearing about other potential moves. The price for anything we were going to do was higher because of that, IMO.
- HonkFortheGoose

You have to wonder what others goalies were available and at what price? There wasn't much.

That's perfectly fair. I'm not a huge fan of the fact that they gave up a 1st rounder for a goalie either, but I'm not about to crucify said goalie like many others have around here before he's even gotten 10 regular season games under his belt for us.

We also have to keep in mind that the GMs in the league had taken notice of the things Murray had done and probably the rumblings they were hearing about other potential moves. The price for anything we were going to do was higher because of that, IMO.
- HonkFortheGoose

This gets overlooked (including by me) a lot but you're probably right. Doesn't help that they're division rivals and Ottawa's already been screwed by one goalie trade.

There is plenty of room now.

I'm not ready to run Lehner out of town. In fact, I have no issue with us acquiring him. I do have an issue with the way Murray has seemingly handed out draft picks for nothing in a few instances.

2nd rounder for Gorges who's career could be over (his injury is tough to recover from)

1st rounder for a concussed goalie.

2 2nd rounders, and a 4-6 guy in McNabb for a 4th liner and someone still in college who had a rough season.
- sbroads24

I wouldn't say Fasching had a rough season. He just didn't really progress more last year from the previous one. He was, however, a huge force for Team USA during the WJC.

Gorges wasn't hurt when they traded for him. I'm sure Murray doesn't have a crystal ball in his office telling him that 6 months after he trades for Gorges, he's going to end up needing Microfracture surgery. That second rounder didn't seem like a bad deal for a guy that could be a veteran presence and fill out the bottom of the blueline once the kids pushed their way in.

Ya'll are nuts...

First, Kocency is a proven valuable player that we would need because he is going to be a late gem over a goalie here.

Now, The college kid in Fasching has just as high of praise for him but is still young.. oh him... he had a rough year and is a throw away now.


COLLECT ALL THE DRAFT PICKS AND PROSPECTS!!!

TRADE PICKS FOR VETS TO HELP THE PROSPECTS!!!

DON'T RUSH THE PROSPECTS!!!

Oh wait... poop... you traded these picks for valuable vets but I would of rather of had another unproven kid who was 2-3 years away.

make up your mind people.
- JVince11

Hey man im all for trading quantity for quality. But is that what we did in the Lehner trade?

No, it's not. Look at it this way. Switch the scenarios of the trades. Had the O'Reilly deal gone down first and Colorado had the same demands that Ottawa did, then 21 would have been part of the O'Reilly deal. The best Ottawa could have asked for at that point would be 31, as it would have been the highest pick we still had.
- HonkFortheGoose

Tbh I dont know...but I do believe we overpaid for Lehner and could have used that pick better.

You have to wonder what others goalies were available and at what price? There wasn't much.
- cabin

There were other goalies available, but if you look at the ages of those goalies, you're risking them being on the wrong side of 30 when you're really competing year after year.

Opting for Lehner may be higher risk, but it could also be a lot higher reward as well.

Would I have preferred to get a guy without having to give anything up for one? Sure. But realistically, those guys are available for a reason. Mostly being that they're probably not very good.

I don't think so only because there was no guarantee the Sabres would have picked Konecny even if the trade isn't made.

Two 2nds and an NHL defenseman (McNabb was good enough to be here when he was traded) for a college player and a 4th liner is one of those moves that you just scratch your head at if said college player doesn't live up to his potential.
- buffalofan19

Right, but all people will think about years from now is how they could've had him. At the time of the Fasching trade they had a ton of picks and prospects. That's not to say it won't be met with criticism if he is a bust, but i don't think it will be the trade everyone points to simply because the timing and scenarios are different.

Ya'll are nuts...

First, Kocency is a proven valuable player that we would need because he is going to be a late gem over a goalie here.

Now, The college kid in Fasching has just as high of praise for him but is still young.. oh him... he had a rough year and is a throw away now.


COLLECT ALL THE DRAFT PICKS AND PROSPECTS!!!

TRADE PICKS FOR VETS TO HELP THE PROSPECTS!!!

DON'T RUSH THE PROSPECTS!!!

Oh wait... poop... you traded these picks for valuable vets but I would of rather of had another unproven kid who was 2-3 years away.

make up your mind people.
- JVince11

I've held the same opinion throughout the entire Murray tenure. I wanted to see some of the players moved potentially develop.

Yes Kane is exciting, yes O'reilly is good. Yes Bogosian is really average. But IMO, Zadorov, Myers, heck maybe even Grigorenko could end up being the better player in any one of the trades. I'm mostly alone in that opinion.....But I haven't flip flopped on it

Hey man im all for trading quantity for quality. But is that what we did in the Lehner trade?
- MCGUIZZY

a young goalie who won a Calder but has to overcome a concussion

or

Recycled parts for goalies like C. Johnson, Enroth, Lindback, etc.


It is a no brainer for me. One has HUGE upside. The others... just have a few moments where they look good but their ceilings are known.

I'd still take Lehner over Lack and Talbot any day of the week too.

There were other goalies available, but if you look at the ages of those goalies, you're risking them being on the wrong side of 30 when you're really competing year after year.

Opting for Lehner may be higher risk, but it could also be a lot higher reward as well.

Would I have preferred to get a guy without having to give anything up for one? Sure. But realistically, those guys are available for a reason. Mostly being that they're probably not very good.
- HonkFortheGoose

See past backups for Miller we signed

a young goalie who won a Calder but has to overcome a concussion

or

Recycled parts for goalies like C. Johnson, Enroth, Lindback, etc.


It is a no brainer for me. One has HUGE upside. The others... just have a few moments where they look good but their ceilings are known.

I'd still take Lehner over Lack and Talbot any day of the week too.
- JVince11

Agreed.

I wouldn't say Fasching had a rough season. He just didn't really progress more last year from the previous one. He was, however, a huge force for Team USA during the WJC.

Gorges wasn't hurt when they traded for him. I'm sure Murray doesn't have a crystal ball in his office telling him that 6 months after he trades for Gorges, he's going to end up needing Microfracture surgery. That second rounder didn't seem like a bad deal for a guy that could be a veteran presence and fill out the bottom of the blueline once the kids pushed their way in.
- HonkFortheGoose

This doesn't mean anything. If a trade doesn't work out, it doesn't work out. It becomes a wasted asset.

Individually, they aren't bad, collectively, he's moved away a lot.

I've held the same opinion throughout the entire Murray tenure. I wanted to see some of the players moved potentially develop.

Yes Kane is exciting, yes O'reilly is good. Yes Bogosian is really average. But IMO, Zadorov, Myers, heck maybe even Grigorenko could end up being the better player in any one of the trades. I'm mostly alone in that opinion.....But I haven't flip flopped on it
- sbroads24

Every trade has each GM hoping that they got hte better end but no one will know for years and years to come. Who knows what happens. TM has his own opinion on what he wants here and so does every other GM.

I hate arm chair GMs that say they could do it better or "oh why didn't we just trade for this guy" or "oh we should have just signed this guy for cheaper"

None of us have any idea. We are sheep.

a young goalie who won a Calder but has to overcome a concussion

or

Recycled parts for goalies like C. Johnson, Enroth, Lindback, etc.


It is a no brainer for me. One has HUGE upside. The others... just have a few moments where they look good but their ceilings are known.

I'd still take Lehner over Lack and Talbot any day of the week too.
- JVince11

Except that's not the choice here. It's would you rather Lehner over Lack and a 1st (or what the 1st would have brought in)?

I didnt love the lehner trade. With that being said, its too soon to judge lehner when we havent iced our complete lineup in front of him yet.

This doesn't mean anything. If a trade doesn't work out, it doesn't work out. It becomes a wasted asset.

Individually, they aren't bad, collectively, he's moved away a lot.
- sbroads24

Gorges helped us get eichle and helped us not forfeit our 1st round pick.