I've liked each season. This one might break me.
- mayorofangrytown

I liked 1 and 2. 3rd one had me iffy but girlfriend made me finish it. 4th one she hated it so we got to stop. This one is just weird. But who knows it can always turn around.

Still weird the writer of glee also writes AHS

Absolutely. This isn't midget/pee wee hockey where you make sure that all of the kids gets to play. Hakstal has to be concerned only with trying to win as many games as possible. If he feels that Vinny doesn't help him do that, then he shouldn't play him whether or not Vinny thinks it's fair.
- jmatchett383

That's the biz. If Vinny really wants to get some ice time to work on his game, he should waive his clause and go to Lehigh Valley.

So out of all our players within all the results so far, Vinny is far and away the worst and will bring down our team in one game?
- SuperSchennBros

Actually, yes -- fair means doing what is best for the team, and is subjective to the people in charge. The coach will be held accountable for the results of team performance and for the decisions he makes.

If he benches somebody, he can get called on it. Line matchups, zone starts, goalie starts and switches, all of it. The coach is responsible.

If the coach decides that Wheels or anyone else isn't playing, yeah, we can disagree with it. Don't begrudge your right to do that.

But the coach will be held responsible for this stuff, and if he is deciding that Wheels still needs to sit after a blowout, then Wheels needs to sit -- because the coach clearly feels that the best team he can out there does 't include Wheels, and the coach will be held responsible for the results he produces

That isn't always fair, either. Not everything in pro sports is fair

That's the biz. If Vinny really wants to get some ice time to work on his game, he should waive his clause and go to Lehigh Valley.
- BulliesPhan87

Either that, or go play overseas and hope someone likes what they see.

Okay, let's continue to miss the point, shall we?

We as fans can wash our hands of Vinny but I don't think the new Coach can come in, claim he's given everyone a fresh start but not actually do it. Sam Gagner and Radko Gudas both had bad preseason games but managed to bounce back last night. I'm not saying Vinny will come in and manage to hang on to a full time job. I'm saying, if the Coach is going to claim to be fair, than be fair. Let Vinny get into a game after a blow out and if he fails, Vinny has no excuse to hide behind and the new Coach proves his point.
- SuperSchennBros

Hakstol's reaction to the elaborate scenario you have imagined.

Absolutely. This isn't midget/pee wee hockey where you make sure that all of the kids gets to play. Hakstal has to be concerned only with trying to win as many games as possible. If he feels that Vinny doesn't help him do that, then he shouldn't play him whether or not Vinny thinks it's fair.
- jmatchett383

+1

This is a professional sport. If you can't make it and 2 coaches have now said it and not one single team wants you. Well than.. you're finished. I wouldn't care if he plays zero minutes this year. At least than maybe he will acknowledge it's over.

That's the biz. If Vinny really wants to get some ice time to work on his game, he should waive his clause and go to Lehigh Valley.
- BulliesPhan87

Exactly -- the Flyers are paying him according to the terms of his contract. He has options available to him, should he not like his usage

Exactly -- the Flyers are paying him according to the terms of his contract. He has options available to him, should he not like his usage
- AllInForFlyers

I don't mean to hate on the guy, it's not like he wants to be a sub-NHL quality player. I just don't agree that it hurts Hakstoll's credibility as a fair coach to not play Vinny anytime soon. It wouldn't be fair to the rest of the team to prioritize one player's career over much needed wins.

I think this is grasping at straws. What if, what if, what if...

You never know until you play a game.
- SuperSchennBros

So if I guy isn't showing enough in practice, he should get to play anyway? Ahead of guys who are bringing it in practice?

So if I guy isn't showing enough in practice, he should get to play anyway? Ahead of guys who are bringing it in practice?
- funmaster18

You don't know if he's showing enough in practice.

I liked 1 and 2. 3rd one had me iffy but girlfriend made me finish it. 4th one she hated it so we got to stop. This one is just weird. But who knows it can always turn around.

Still weird the writer of glee also writes AHS
- Tfaehner

Season one was okay I liked it. Season two was amazing. The Witch season was interesting enough to keep me going. My wife even watched that one. Freak Show lost me when the Clown died. I just watched because I couldn't put it down.

I have a feeling having Lady Gaga on this year is going to completely overwhelm the show.

Hakstol's reaction to the elaborate scenario you have imagined.


- Feanor

If you say so, bud. Should I post the same picture or another? Maybe I'll post stats about it.

Actually, yes -- fair means doing what is best for the team, and is subjective to the people in charge. The coach will be held accountable for the results of team performance and for the decisions he makes.

If he benches somebody, he can get called on it. Line matchups, zone starts, goalie starts and switches, all of it. The coach is responsible.

If the coach decides that Wheels or anyone else isn't playing, yeah, we can disagree with it. Don't begrudge your right to do that.

But the coach will be held responsible for this stuff, and if he is deciding that Wheels still needs to sit after a blowout, then Wheels needs to sit -- because the coach clearly feels that the best team he can out there does 't include Wheels, and the coach will be held responsible for the results he produces

That isn't always fair, either. Not everything in pro sports is fair
- AllInForFlyers

Who is the worst skating active player in the league that plays nightly and on a decent roster?

You don't know if he's showing enough in practice.
- SuperSchennBros

What other basis do you think hakstol is going on?

I get what you're saying with the new coach bringing a clean slate. Gudas and Gagner didn't have great camps either. At the end of the day, though, I don't think he can completely throw out their histories. Gudas is a younger player who can improve, and while he didn't look that good in camp he does bring physical elements the lineup needed. Gagner led all forwards in scoring on his previous team, despite both a bad camp and being on a weak team.

Hakstoll can't entirely throw their histories in the trash when making decisions. They're going to be considered in regards to their capabilities. What does Vinny's recent track record suggest he can bring to the table that we didn't see in the preseason? The Flyers must get off to a good start to have any hopes of a playoffs appearance this year. There's no time to worry about being fair to Vinny, not in October at least.
- BulliesPhan87

You can't throw out a player's history when offering a freah start? Vinny's history is practically Hall of fame worthy. Gagner's history is him never reaching expectations.

1 game at the start of the year will not make or break an average team in October.

I don't mean to hate on the guy, it's not like he wants to be a sub-NHL quality player. I just don't agree that it hurts Hakstoll's credibility as a fair coach to not play Vinny anytime soon. It wouldn't be fair to the rest of the team to prioritize one player's career over much needed wins.
- BulliesPhan87

It doesn't hurt his credibility -- these players know that they are there to win. They don't want to see their peers humiliated in the media or berated in front of each other, but those cats in there want to win hockey games, because the vast majority understand that it is a business and there are consequences when you don't win games

What other basis do you think hakstol is going on?
- funmaster18

You tell me but be positive.

You tell me but be positive.
- SuperSchennBros

I think he's looking at his players in practice and going with the ones he believes will execute his system the best.

I just don't agree that it hurts Hakstoll's credibility as a fair coach to not play Vinny anytime soon. It wouldn't be fair to the rest of the team to prioritize one player's career over much needed wins.
- BulliesPhan87

Ideally, yes... but human beings being what they are... dressing room politics is a real and unavoidable thing.

Vinny, even though he looks like poop to us, still commands a lot of respect from people in the game. I'm sure nobody on that team would want to give up their roster spot to see him in, but neither are they comfortable watching their venerable companion get pushed out to sea on that proverbial ice floe.

I do kind of worry that Hak may be committing the rookie coach mistake of burning through his political capital too quickly while waving his sheriff's badge around.

Vinny, Simmer, Schenn... those are all pretty well-liked, well-respected guys.

You can't throw out a player's history when offering a freah start? Vinny's history is practically Hall of fame worthy. Gagner's history is him never reaching expectations.

1 game at the start of the year will not make or break an average team in October.
- SuperSchennBros

You can't throw it out entirely, no. You aren't going to try Gudas at forward, or Gagner in net. And you have to weight their recent history more heavily than multiple years ago. Regardless of missing expectations his entire career, Gagner did score points. Vinny has been struggling to prove he's an NHL player for a year and a half now.

I think that each and every game in October does matter. It matters so much more than being "fair" to Vinny right now. I just can't agree with you on this one. If Dave has to try him in the lineup, I think it's reasonable to wait for an injury, or some other change of circumstance.

Ideally, yes... but human beings being what they are... dressing room politics is a real and unavoidable thing.

Vinny, even though he looks like poop to us, still commands a lot of respect from people in the game. I'm sure nobody on that team would want to give up their roster spot to see him in, but neither are they comfortable watching their venerable companion get pushed out to sea on that proverbial ice floe.

I do kind of worry that Hak may be committing the rookie coach mistake of burning through his political capital too quickly while waving his sheriff's badge around.

Vinny, Simmer, Schenn... those are all pretty well-liked, well-respected guys.
- Tomahawk

You left out MacDonald...

Ideally, yes... but human beings being what they are... dressing room politics is a real and unavoidable thing.

Vinny, even though he looks like poop to us, still commands a lot of respect from people in the game. I'm sure nobody on that team would want to give up their roster spot to see him in, but neither are they comfortable watching their venerable companion get pushed out to sea on that proverbial ice floe.

I do kind of worry that Hak may be committing the rookie coach mistake of burning through his political capital too quickly while waving his sheriff's badge around.

Vinny, Simmer, Schenn... those are all pretty well-liked, well-respected guys.
- Tomahawk

What you are saying is true, in a vacuum. If it was just "Rookie Coach Scratches HOFer, Other Vets," nothing else, then I would shift my stance, slightly

But this isn't going down in a vacuum. For better or worse, Paul Holmgren, Peter Laviolette and Craig Berube have already walked the plank for the results that this roster has produced

Hakstol has a five-year contract. That doesn't make him bulletproof, because all coaches get the axe eventually. But I bet this: He is gonna outlast 95 percent of this current roster that doesn't buy in or doesn't produce or hasn't helped them win enough

I think he's looking at his players in practice and going with the ones he believes will execute his system the best.
- funmaster18

Sure he could be. I just saw Luke Schenn play two good road games and still get scratched for game 3.

You can't throw it out entirely, no. You aren't going to try Gudas at forward, or Gagner in net. And you have to weight their recent history more heavily than multiple years ago. Regardless of missing expectations his entire career, Gagner did score points. Vinny has been struggling to prove he's an NHL player for a year and a half now.

I think that each and every game in October does matter. It matters so much more than being "fair" to Vinny right now. I just can't agree with you on this one. If Dave has to try him in the lineup, I think it's reasonable to wait for an injury, or some other change of circumstance.
- BulliesPhan87

Did Riley Cote ever keep us out of the playoffs?