No one is asking him for his crystal ball. Oh... that's right, he is part of the collective.
- SabresPanacea

Do you believe that Zadorov, Grigorenko, or Compher would make the Sabres better today?

Not really. In fact the only player I think Murray got obsessed with and overpaid for was Lehner.

Let's break down that he wanted patience. That's something GM's in sports don't have. Murray had to ride out the storm of back to back last place finishes. He put his stamp on the team by trading youth for youth he thinks better fits the mold of a team he wants to build. Murray also showed he liked some youth on the blue line as we see both Pysyk and McCabe playing and playing well I might add.

If he wants to complain about a trade look at the Lehner trade not the Kane and O'Reilly trades.
- Stripes77

Worth noting he specifically targeted young players as the keystones of those trades, as well. 2nd contract types.

Not really. In fact the only player I think Murray got obsessed with and overpaid for was Lehner.

Let's break down that he wanted patience. That's something GM's in sports don't have. Murray had to ride out the storm of back to back last place finishes. He put his stamp on the team by trading youth for youth he thinks better fits the mold of a team he wants to build. Murray also showed he liked some youth on the blue line as we see both Pysyk and McCabe playing and playing well I might add.

If he wants to complain about a trade look at the Lehner trade not the Kane and O'Reilly trades.
- Stripes77

End of the day he's just valuing Myers as a top player which I don't think he is, and I liked Myers. I think he's a really good 2nd pairing D. And we traded him and a top 9 player as well as some assets who have yet to play in the NHL for a average 2nd pairing D and a top 6 player.

So in my books, we come out looking okay.

Not really. In fact the only player I think Murray got obsessed with and overpaid for was Lehner.

Let's break down that he wanted patience. That's something GM's in sports don't have. Murray had to ride out the storm of back to back last place finishes. He put his stamp on the team by trading youth for youth he thinks better fits the mold of a team he wants to build. Murray also showed he liked some youth on the blue line as we see both Pysyk and McCabe playing and playing well I might add.

If he wants to complain about a trade look at the Lehner trade not the Kane and O'Reilly trades.
- Stripes77

Plus add the fact that Tim being a scout, has seen and evaluated the players he traded and traded for. I'm sure he knew more about the pluses and minus that we never seen of the players. I will trust his choices .

For now.

No one is asking him for his crystal ball. Oh... that's right, he is part of the collective.
- SabresPanacea

Good point.

Not really. In fact the only player I think Murray got obsessed with and overpaid for was Lehner.

Let's break down that he wanted patience. That's something GM's in sports don't have. Murray had to ride out the storm of back to back last place finishes. He put his stamp on the team by trading youth for youth he thinks better fits the mold of a team he wants to build. Murray also showed he liked some youth on the blue line as we see both Pysyk and McCabe playing and playing well I might add.

If he wants to complain about a trade look at the Lehner trade not the Kane and O'Reilly trades.
- Stripes77

I think he may have overpaid for more than just Lenner, but I don't know if we're able to criticize for that. Under Murray's plan, the Sabres were desperate to obtain a certain kind of player at certain key positions, and to get them now. To ensure those assets could be had, immediately, you might have to pay more than market value - paying market value means other buyers have an equal chance to obtain the asset.

Murray decided it was time to flip the switch and time to beat the market. If that decision was right, then I don't know if you can fault him for paying the premium.

End of the day he's just valuing Myers as a top player which I don't think he is, and I liked Myers. I think he's a really good 2nd pairing D. And we traded him and a top 9 player as well as some assets who have yet to play in the NHL for a average 2nd pairing D and a top 6 player.

So in my books, we come out looking okay.
- Zschalberg

What we did have I wasn't all that impressed with . Change it out for something better.
See players we held on to forever hoping they will pan out. (there is a bunch of them)

I think he may have overpaid for more than just Lenner, but I don't know if we're able to criticize for that. Under Murray's plan, the Sabres were desperate to obtain a certain kind of player at certain key positions, and to get them now. To ensure those assets could be had, immediately, you might have to pay more than market value - paying market value means other buyers have an equal chance to obtain the asset.

Murray decided it was time to flip the switch and time to beat the market. If that decision was right, then I don't know if you can fault him for paying the premium.
- Der Kaiser

That's valid

Also, remember you can't field a team of just prospects or you turn into Edmonton. Murray had a vision and had the luxury of numerous draft picks, some he inherited some he acquired. He would have spent them regardless whether it would be actually drafting players (and having to deal with the maximum contract amounts, or packaging them to get better players) he chose the latter. Had he not there rebuild curve would be looking at 5 more years, not 1 or 2.

That's valid

Also, remember you can't field a team of just prospects or you turn into Edmonton. Murray had a vision and had the luxury of numerous draft picks, some he inherited some he acquired. He would have spent them regardless whether it would be actually drafting players (and having to deal with the maximum contract amounts, or packaging them to get better players) he chose the latter. Had he not there rebuild curve would be looking at 5 more years, not 1 or 2.
- Stripes77

Plus still kept a few prospects who we can still hope can contribute in a few years. We didn't trade the entire farm, just a few cows.

I'm not reacting to anything from this season. I have been disgusted by these trades the moment(s) that they happened. I will still root for the Sabres because I love them, I just hate how much they gave away for players that I believe are nothing special.

I think it is terrible that we gave away Zadorov and Myers, 2 firsts in an incredibly deep draft and Compher.

Why do you think Kane is great? Because he is fast? Sort of physical? He cant pass and has an incredibly inaccurate shot.

Bogo is very very average imo.

Oreilly is a good player who makes smart plays, but was it worth it to give up what we did to acquire him when we have Eichel, Zemgus and Samson at Center? Our defense stinks, and we lost a high-end d prospect in Zadorov.

I hate these moves not because we look bad this season, because, imo, we sacrificed a smart way to build future cup contenders to relieve GMTM's infatuation with a couple players.
- hawk33

O'Reilly has shown more heart and hustle in 6 games than Grigorenko and Zadorov combined in their short careers. I will make that trade all day...

Bogo is just as good of a player as Myers. Myers could be great, but he wouldn't hit a fly. I would rather have a mean hard nose D-Man with some offensive upside than an overgrown wannabe offensive defenseman.

Zadorov is the only piece I hated to lose because of upside but you have to give to get. My only issue with GMTM is the Lehner deal. But so far Ocho and our D has played great. Once the offense starts clicking you will be singing a different tune.

Do you believe that Zadorov, Grigorenko, or Compher would make the Sabres better today?
- thatsapickle

1. I don't care about today. But in two or three years, yes I do think they all make the team better.
2. Whether or not they make the team better does not justify massively overpaying for a trade.
3. Zadorov and grigo/armia struggling right now justifies why the trades weren't overpayments, but kane and orielly struggling to put up any stats has no bearing to the conversation because it is only six games in.

This board is a self contradicting hypocritical group of sycophants who are here more to socialize with like-minded homers than to give any real truthful fair analysis of anything. There are many who this does not apply to. All the rest of you know who you are.

I'm not reacting to anything from this season. I have been disgusted by these trades the moment(s) that they happened. I will still root for the Sabres because I love them, I just hate how much they gave away for players that I believe are nothing special.

I think it is terrible that we gave away Zadorov and Myers, 2 firsts in an incredibly deep draft and Compher.

Why do you think Kane is great? Because he is fast? Sort of physical? He cant pass and has an incredibly inaccurate shot.

Bogo is very very average imo.

Oreilly is a good player who makes smart plays, but was it worth it to give up what we did to acquire him when we have Eichel, Zemgus and Samson at Center? Our defense stinks, and we lost a high-end d prospect in Zadorov.

I hate these moves not because we look bad this season, because, imo, we sacrificed a smart way to build future cup contenders to relieve GMTM's infatuation with a couple players.
- hawk33

I'd agree with you at least somewhat if it weren't for the fact we have a very very good stable of prospects being developed now...definitely top 10 or better. So trading away some unknowns for good young (not elite) players like Bogo, ROR, and Kane to me is savvy since a team can only carry so many contracts, and these guys are known commodities. Coming up in the next year or 2 are some damn fine players, and many other teams would love to have our prospect pool.

O'Reilly has shown more heart and hustle in 6 games than Grigorenko and Zadorov combined in their short careers. I will make that trade all day...

Bogo is just as good of a player as Myers. Myers could be great, but he wouldn't hit a fly. I would rather have a mean hard nose D-Man with some offensive upside than an overgrown wannabe offensive defenseman.

Zadorov is the only piece I hated to lose because of upside but you have to give to get. My only issue with GMTM is the Lehner deal. But so far Ocho and our D has played great. Once the offense starts clicking you will be singing a different tune.
- soljor09

Tim Murray is the anti-Darcy Regier. Darcy would never have made those deals. We would still have Myers and we would have gotten a second round pick for Stafford, and Armia would still be useless and at this point would carry extremely minimal value.

I don't know if the trades will work out but it's a whole hell of a lot more interesting.

And if the trades don't work out we can fire Murray and get a new GM.

1. I don't care about today. But in two or three years, yes I do think they all make the team better.
2. Whether or not they make the team better does not justify massively overpaying for a trade.
3. Zadorov and grigo/armia struggling right now justifies why the trades weren't overpayments, but kane and orielly struggling to put up any stats has no bearing to the conversation because it is only six games in.

This board is a self contradicting hypocritical group of sycophants who are here more to socialize with like-minded homers than to give any real truthful fair analysis of anything. There are many who this does not apply to. All the rest of you know who you are.
- SabresPanacea

Relax and breath. No one agrees with every move. We do like the direction things are taking. Chemistry has to be developed when you put this many new players together. I see the improvement in what I am watching . Patience is the key.
I would like to think I know the game well having played it to a fairly high level . But I do not think I am smarter than a man who has worked his whole life at it . He has rose through the management levels in professional hockey and is widely regarded as having a good eye for talent. He accelerated the rebuild as he had lots of assets to do so . And he can only have so many under contract , He has gotten all the best components . Now it is up to the coaching to staff to make them into a well oiled machine. It is not going to happen overnight. But I definitely see improvement every game.

1. I don't care about today. But in two or three years, yes I do think they all make the team better.
2. Whether or not they make the team better does not justify massively overpaying for a trade.
3. Zadorov and grigo/armia struggling right now justifies why the trades weren't overpayments, but kane and orielly struggling to put up any stats has no bearing to the conversation because it is only six games in.

This board is a self contradicting hypocritical group of sycophants who are here more to socialize with like-minded homers than to give any real truthful fair analysis of anything. There are many who this does not apply to. All the rest of you know who you are.
- SabresPanacea

Almost all of these trades are due for long-term evaluation. Any arguments of an overall win for either side is ludicrous.

What is also ludicrous is the name calling of an entire fan group that likes to have discussion about their team, and for the most part, courteously talk about different topics.

I can agree there are 'homers' which can include myself at times, but really dude?

As they say on monday night football pre-game "C'MON MAN!?!?"

We didn't give away anyone. We got players in exchange for them. Kane has hit 30 goals and was more likely than anyone we traded to do so again. Myers had his issues and might still turn into a really decent player but we gave to get. No one claims Bogo is a top 2 defenseman, but he isn't terrible by any stretch.

The only 2 players I'm semi upset we got rid of are Zadorov, whom we traded for another top 6 player, and Compher who has yet to play a game in the NHL so I'm not too worried.

Not to mention, our cupboards are not empty either. Rochester has some good players on it that could hopefully one day replenish the NHL when they develop.
- Zschalberg

i agree with all of this (except maybe the compher part). the sabres were plain vanilla ice cream for 17 years, and it wasnt even good vanilla ice cream. murray brought in guys to compete in todays nhl. on paper the forwards look great. we actually have enough nhl talent to have a competent power play. and you can say that we can run 3 quality lines out without sounding like a complete homer. could still probably use a right wing that can score in the top 6, but 3 of our top prospects are rws. the d looks like it needs work, but that will be addressed either in the 16 draft, by trade, or in free agency. we are in games now, the forwards are almost all new, give it a few games to get some chemistry. it looks pretty good so far.

*comes skipping by...*

*back reads a page to see what is going on*




*same exact stupid bickering about someone's personal feelings about trades that we have zero control over and cannot accurately judge for another 2-4 years if not more*

*leaves*

Ha no that was a race to the bottom. I agree, when Darcy tried to field a good team, it usually ended up as a mad dash towards 9th.

I just really liked the rebuild-style of acquiring 1st and 2nd rounders and letting them develop, rather than giving away soooo much to acquire a few above average players.

I still think Myers is better than any player we acquired, Kane is nothing special, O'reilly isnt that great and Bogo is closer to an average d-man than a good d-man.

Maybe Kasdorf will become Hasek?
- hawk33

............... What

............... What
- gerbe75pts

My biggest gripe is/was the Kane trade.

IMO Myers should have only been moved if it were for someone of Kane's caliber straight up.

O'Reilly has shown more heart and hustle in 6 games than Grigorenko and Zadorov combined in their short careers. I will make that trade all day...

Bogo is just as good of a player as Myers. Myers could be great, but he wouldn't hit a fly. I would rather have a mean hard nose D-Man with some offensive upside than an overgrown wannabe offensive defenseman.

Zadorov is the only piece I hated to lose because of upside but you have to give to get. My only issue with GMTM is the Lehner deal. But so far Ocho and our D has played great. Once the offense starts clicking you will be singing a different tune.
- soljor09

Plus something that has been mentioned but is worth repeating...without that trade for Kane the Sabres don't draft Jack Eichel, they end up with Dylan Strome...

*comes skipping by...*

*back reads a page to see what is going on*




*same exact stupid bickering about someone's personal feelings about trades that we have zero control over and cannot accurately judge for another 2-4 years if not more*

*leaves*
- JVince11

Make any new football helmets lately?

I get it that the scoring isn't there yet, Eichel only has 2 points in 6 games (while McDavid has like 50), Kane just scored his first goal, Enis hasn't produced yet and we're only 2 and 4, BUT. compared to last year it's night and day:

Possession numbers are way up
Shots for are way up
Shots against are way down
Faceoff win % is way up
Other than the 3 on 3 last night, it's looks like a well coached team
Reinhart has found a niche
Pysyk and McCabe look like a pairing for the next 10 years

Give it time to gel, this team is improved abundantly

My biggest gripe is/was the Kane trade.

IMO Myers should have only been moved if it were for someone of Kane's caliber straight up.
- sbroads24

Depending on how its broken down if you take all of the pieces acquired vs all of the pieces given up the Sabres fall a little short but its not this vastly huge overpayment unless Armia and Lemieux turn into All-Stars, IMO of course

Depending on how its broken down if you take all of the pieces acquired vs all of the pieces given up the Sabres fall a little short but its not this vastly huge overpayment unless Armia and Lemieux turn into All-Stars, IMO of course
- Stripes77

In terms of importance to their teams

I'd say Myers as their #2 D-man = Kane being our top line LW

and IMO Lemieux will be a very good top 6-9 winger = Bogosian as a top 4 D

We added in Armia, 25th overall, Stafford as well.