Out of the players listed to possibly hit UFA market, I wouldn't be opposed to bringing Jagr back.
- arichardson22

I'm going to say something really crazy here, so bear with me...

Honestly, I'd try to get him back this season. Jagr's influence on the locker room and the guys that one season he was here is understated completely. His influence helped turn Voracek into a work horse, Art Ross candidate, he elevated Claude Giroux's game and made Scott Hartnell a freakin' NHL all-star.

Way too soon to tell. He has done some good things -- running a solid training camp, for starters -- and some things that have left himself open to second-guessing. We'll see how the team evolves in the months to come. Until then, I don't think it's fair to pass judgment one way or the other.

That said, I think the team on the ice so far looks a whole lot like it did under Craig Berube, which is perhaps to be expected.
- bmeltzer

Does he strike you as particularly stubborn as far as NHL coaches go? I'm wondering how bad the PP has to get before he concedes the experiment of Raffl on the top unit hasn't worked.

As much as I don't like Manning being in the lineup I can at least understand that the other options for the 3rd pairing don't have a recent track record of high quality play. But last year the top PP unit was great all season long with BSchenn on it, so it really does seem like change for change's sake. Even the excellent 6 on 5 deflection goal Schenn scored to give the Flyers their only point in the last week hasn't changed Hakstol's mind.

Honestly, it's very concerning.

Out of the players listed to possibly hit UFA market, I wouldn't be opposed to bringing Jagr back.
- arichardson22

He wont do poop to improve the speed of the team but a few slow guys are alright if they are good at protecting the puck, and hard along the boards.

Jagr is still a tank. He's still better than anyone not named G, V, and arguably Couturier/Simmonds.

Agreed. Sometimes I think they should have just re-signed Emery, at least he had a pair.
- BiggE

If only he had a working pair of hips.

Does he strike you as particularly stubborn as far as NHL coaches go? I'm wondering how bad the PP has to get before he concedes the experiment of Raffl on the top unit hasn't worked.

As much as I don't like Manning being in the lineup I can at least understand that the other options for the 3rd pairing don't have a recent track record of high quality play. But last year the top PP unit was great all season long with BSchenn on it, so it really does seem like change for change's sake. Even the excellent 6 on 5 deflection goal Schenn scored to give the Flyers their only point in the last week hasn't changed Hakstol's mind.

Honestly, it's very concerning.
- Feanor

Other PK's are daring Simmonds and/or Raffl to make a play and it's not happening. Streit. G. Jake are getting swarmed with some more room given to Jake and he's not having any luck

Its dangerous but sometimes you can get what you need. Just dont go in there bare skin and you will come out fine.
- flyer_nutter

So the Flyers top PP unit has one 5 on 4 goal this season. It came in the second game against Florida when the score was already 5-0.

So the Flyers top PP unit has one 5 on 4 goal this season. It came in the second game against Florida when the score was already 5-0.


- Feanor

Does Hakstol run the PP or is it one of his boys?

Does he strike you as particularly stubborn as far as NHL coaches go? I'm wondering how bad the PP has to get before he concedes the experiment of Raffl on the top unit hasn't worked.

As much as I don't like Manning being in the lineup I can at least understand that the other options for the 3rd pairing don't have a recent track record of high quality play. But last year the top PP unit was great all season long with BSchenn on it, so it really does seem like change for change's sake. Even the excellent 6 on 5 deflection goal Schenn scored to give the Flyers their only point in the last week hasn't changed Hakstol's mind.

Honestly, it's very concerning.
- Feanor

He did put Schenn back for a couple games last week. Switched him back this game. Raffl had a few great chances too...honestly I'd prefer Schenn but I think he is trying to balance out the units. The PP runs through the top of the umbrella and even Simmer (who hasn't done anything PP wise which hurts a ton for that unit) -- though the Schenn position is valuable in retrievals and quick touch passes and deflections, it is the least important part of the unit to me. That PP lives and dies with the other four, not Raffl or Schenn. But I do agree with don't fix what isn't broke.

Does Hakstol run the PP or is it one of his boys?
- Nucker101

I think it's still Joey Mullen, who has been running it, to good effect, for the past few years.

My central lament about this situation is not the team's record or lack of spirit or bad contracts etc. I look to the future for consolation. And here my regret is: When Read, Simmonds, B.Schenn, Couturier had just started, and especially after that epic Pittsburgh series, and then when Laughton was reranked 12th of 2013 by THN, I really thought we would get one or two ES first line talents, at least on projections. I meant first line talents on contenders, not necessarily the guys who would carry a first line, but guys who would project to belong there on their own, (not just the Raffl type first liners who fill in as the 3rd piece along with 2 all stars). Or, we would get players who could be the primary talents on ES 2nd line, again at the level for contending teams.

Instead, on ES, what we have is a ill-fitting motley crew of third-liners. There is not a single guy who projects to be the sort of guy who can carry a good 2nd line. Many would say Couturier, misused early, best still to come etc. etc., but to me he just does not pass the eye test in the offensive zone.

I dug up this: http://www.hockeysfuture....prospects/sean_couturier/

Where the hell is the evidence of his on ice vision in regards to finding the open teammate? I honestly don't recall a single play by him in the last 3 years that makes me think he can fill that role. He might be an elite checking center, a John Madden type, but to me it seems like the emphasis has gone away from the utility of such players in the modern game.

I'm going to say something really crazy here, so bear with me...

Honestly, I'd try to get him back this season. Jagr's influence on the locker room and the guys that one season he was here is understated completely. His influence helped turn Voracek into a work horse, Art Ross candidate, he elevated Claude Giroux's game and made Scott Hartnell a freakin' NHL all-star.
- KGBflyers10

Yep, and his work ethic is unmatched.

My central lament about this situation is not the team's record or lack of spirit or bad contracts etc. I look to the future for consolation. And here my regret is: When Read, Simmonds, B.Schenn, Couturier had just started, and especially after that epic Pittsburgh series, and then when Laughton was reranked 12th of 2013 by THN, I really thought we would get one or two ES first line talents, at least on projections. I meant first line talents on contenders, not necessarily the guys who would carry a first line, but guys who would project to belong there on their own, (not just the Raffl type first liners who fill in as the 3rd piece along with 2 all stars). Or, we would get players who could be the primary talents on ES 2nd line, again at the level for contending teams.

Instead, on ES, what we have is a ill-fitting motley crew of third-liners. There is not a single guy who projects to be the sort of guy who can carry a good 2nd line. Many would say Couturier, misused early, best still to come etc. etc., but to me he just does not pass the eye test in the offensive zone.

I dug up this: http://www.hockeysfuture....prospects/sean_couturier/

Where the hell is the evidence of his on ice vision in regards to finding the open teammate? I honestly don't recall a single play by him in the last 3 years that makes me think he can fill that role. He might be an elite checking center, a John Madden type, but to me it seems like the emphasis has gone away from the utility of such players in the modern game.
- PT21

http://www.letsgoflyers.n...ads-a-perfect-pass-to-ma/

http://video.nhl.com/videocenter/console?id=502293

My central lament about this situation is not the team's record or lack of spirit or bad contracts etc. I look to the future for consolation. And here my regret is: When Read, Simmonds, B.Schenn, Couturier had just started, and especially after that epic Pittsburgh series, and then when Laughton was reranked 12th of 2013 by THN, I really thought we would get one or two ES first line talents, at least on projections. I meant first line talents on contenders, not necessarily the guys who would carry a first line, but guys who would project to belong there on their own, (not just the Raffl type first liners who fill in as the 3rd piece along with 2 all stars). Or, we would get players who could be the primary talents on ES 2nd line, again at the level for contending teams.

Instead, on ES, what we have is a ill-fitting motley crew of third-liners. There is not a single guy who projects to be the sort of guy who can carry a good 2nd line. Many would say Couturier, misused early, best still to come etc. etc., but to me he just does not pass the eye test in the offensive zone.

I dug up this: http://www.hockeysfuture....prospects/sean_couturier/

Where the hell is the evidence of his on ice vision in regards to finding the open teammate? I honestly don't recall a single play by him in the last 3 years that makes me think he can fill that role. He might be an elite checking center, a John Madden type, but to me it seems like the emphasis has gone away from the utility of such players in the modern game.
- PT21

Prepare to get fancied

I dug up this: http://www.hockeysfuture....prospects/sean_couturier/

Where the hell is the evidence of his on ice vision in regards to finding the open teammate? I honestly don't recall a single play by him in the last 3 years that makes me think he can fill that role. He might be an elite checking center, a John Madden type, but to me it seems like the emphasis has gone away from the utility of such players in the modern game.
- PT21

No offense, but then you need to watch the game better. He is one of the best passers on the team and has great vision. Rarely does he miss a pass and it's usually on the tape. He needs to assert himself and skate more when he has the puck so he can use that vision better. But he certainly is a very good passer.

The forwards seemed pretty good in 13-14 when the defense had a true top pairing in Kimmo-Coburn and the luxury of Streit on the 2nd pairing. Giroux, Voracek, Simmonds, BSchenn, Read and Couturier had 328 points in 485 games that season. That is a solid top six.

But let's rehash the Couturier can't be a 2C and is dragging down the team's offense argument after the Flyers scored eight goals in five games without him.

My central lament about this situation is not the team's record or lack of spirit or bad contracts etc. I look to the future for consolation. And here my regret is: When Read, Simmonds, B.Schenn, Couturier had just started, and especially after that epic Pittsburgh series, and then when Laughton was reranked 12th of 2013 by THN, I really thought we would get one or two ES first line talents, at least on projections. I meant first line talents on contenders, not necessarily the guys who would carry a first line, but guys who would project to belong there on their own, (not just the Raffl type first liners who fill in as the 3rd piece along with 2 all stars). Or, we would get players who could be the primary talents on ES 2nd line, again at the level for contending teams.

Instead, on ES, what we have is a ill-fitting motley crew of third-liners. There is not a single guy who projects to be the sort of guy who can carry a good 2nd line. Many would say Couturier, misused early, best still to come etc. etc., but to me he just does not pass the eye test in the offensive zone.

I dug up this: http://www.hockeysfuture....prospects/sean_couturier/

Where the hell is the evidence of his on ice vision in regards to finding the open teammate? I honestly don't recall a single play by him in the last 3 years that makes me think he can fill that role. He might be an elite checking center, a John Madden type, but to me it seems like the emphasis has gone away from the utility of such players in the modern game.
- PT21

Its all good, everyone has a different viewpoint on a player or the team. Mine has over his time with the Flyers gone to roughly where yours is.

Take the hot streak against Pittsburgh out the window. I see a slow kid who is good at shutting down other players. poopty in the offensive zone. Dont really get the hype, which I think will start to dwindle as what he truly is comes into focus.

He isn't the problem, but I am not really impressed. I am sure there are some videos of great skill plays, which honestly every player not named John Scott has.

Just me.

Its all good, everyone has a different viewpoint on a player or the team. Mine has over his time with the Flyers gone to roughly where yours is.

Take the hot streak against Pittsburgh out the window. I see a slow kid who is good at shutting down other players. poopty in the offensive zone. Dont really get the hype, which I think will start to dwindle as what he truly is comes into focus.

- flyer_nutter

He's not slow, or poopty in any zone. This isn't some crazy exception I had to dig out of the vault, it's his first point this season where he goes the length of the ice to help Gagner and BSchenn score the GWG.

http://video.flyers.nhl.c...onsole?id=2015020035-69-h

The forwards seemed pretty good in 13-14 when the defense had a true top pairing in Kimmo-Coburn and the luxury of Streit on the 2nd pairing. Giroux, Voracek, Simmonds, BSchenn, Read and Couturier had 328 points in 485 games that season. That is a solid top six.

But let's rehash the Couturier can't be a 2C and is dragging down the team's offense argument after the Flyers scored eight goals in five games without him.
- Feanor

I was just looking at the stats and the only team with less goals for in the entire league is the Ducks. That's not good at all.. really hope they start scoring and soon or this might be an epically bad season.

This place has become the on the line version of AA meetings for Flyer fans
A place where we come to admit our problem of thinking we had a team who could at least compete.
- 3flyerkids

amen

The forwards seemed pretty good in 13-14 when the defense had a true top pairing in Kimmo-Coburn and the luxury of Streit on the 2nd pairing. Giroux, Voracek, Simmonds, BSchenn, Read and Couturier had 328 points in 485 games that season. That is a solid top six.

But let's rehash the Couturier can't be a 2C and is dragging down the team's offense argument after the Flyers scored eight goals in five games without him.
- Feanor

that was a true top pairing?

The Flyers are in the midst of a 4 game losing streak, which not only did they lose, but they didn't play well. You can play well and lose to better teams, that wasn't the case with the last 4 games. We can debate whether this team can make the playoffs this year, but that's not going to prove anything. What we have to see at the very least is some kind of growth as a team. Some kind of forward movement. The first few games were very promising, in the hope that this would be an improved skating team that was going to come out and compete, even if they were outgunned by a team. The last 4 games are showing that not to be the case. At the very least, they need to at least fix this issue of uneven and uninspired play. Get some value out of this season, if they're not going to make the playoffs, other than a better draft pick.

we gave up all those picks and players for 34 year old chris pronger but couldn't give up schenn and couturier for weber... we are doomed until a major front office change happens

The Flyers are in the midst of a 4 game losing streak, which not only did they lose, but they didn't play well. You can play well and lose to better teams, that wasn't the case with the last 4 games. We can debate whether this team can make the playoffs this year, but that's not going to prove anything. What we have to see at the very least is some kind of growth as a team. Some kind of forward movement. The first few games were very promising, in the hope that this would be an improved skating team that was going to come out and compete, even if they were outgunned by a team. The last 4 games are showing that not to be the case. At the very least, they need to at least fix this issue of uneven and uninspired play. Get some value out of this season, if they're not going to make the playoffs, other than a better draft pick.
- MJL

the thing is, this 4 game losing streak is a microcosm of the past few seasons.

Or the Philadelphia We'll just keep tanking til Hinkie says stop, aka the Sixers
- BiggE

Draft players to trade them for draft picks to draft players to trade them for draft picks to draft players to trade them for draft picks to draft players to trade them for draft picks to draft players to trade them for draft picks to draft players...