Draft players to trade them for draft picks to draft players to trade them for draft picks to draft players to trade them for draft picks to draft players to trade them for draft picks to draft players to trade them for draft picks to draft players...
- jmatchett383

that was a true top pairing?
- JoeRussomanno

Yes. They were excellent together that season, as they were in a few other seasons.

http://www.behindthenet.c...+30+32+33+34+45+46+63+67#

we gave up all those picks and players for 34 year old chris pronger but couldn't give up schenn and couturier for weber... we are doomed until a major front office change happens
- JoeRussomanno

The deal wasn't "Couturier and Schenn" for Weber. There were other players and picks involved. And as much as I am a huge fan of Shea Weber, he's no Chris Pronger, even at 34.

the thing is, this 4 game losing streak is a microcosm of the past few seasons.
- JoeRussomanno

It's definitely a repeated issue.

http://www.letsgoflyers.net/2014/12/11/video-sean-couturiers-threads-a-perfect-pass-to-ma/

http://video.nhl.com/videocenter/console?id=502293
- wilsonecho91

I watched this with interest, thanks.

The first one: the way he turns around seems to fling the 'pass', it is not at all clear to me that he is not just shooting one on goal and is hoping for Read to collect the garbage. He often does that - turn around and fling the puck. A couple of times last season he scored almost zero angle goals that way.

The second one is a nice play, but I would not call that elite. I would expect a NHL regular to make that pass - he sees Read getting open and head for the net before he lowers his head. He does not 'thread' that pass, nor is it no look.

Sometimes B.Schenn makes high skill plays of the sort I am talking about. Remember his slap pass to Voracek on the pp in the playoff series against the Rangers? He looked Lundquist off and found Voracek. And the wrister Laughton snapped against the same goalie a few days ago.

I wish Couturier would show more glimpses like that. And I wish those glimpses would increase in frequency. There are two kinds of passes I see #14 make. One is a no look backhand. Usually this goes to a covered guy. The other is the kind of 'flinging' passes referred to earlier. Simmonds also 'flings' his passes the same way. Its not what I would call a deft pass, with a measured velocity.

we gave up all those picks and players for 34 year old chris pronger but couldn't give up schenn and couturier for weber... we are doomed until a major front office change happens
- JoeRussomanno

Are you advocating that we should have traded couts and schenn for Weber? Serious question, I don't quite understand your post.

I watched this with interest, thanks.

The first one: the way he turns around seems to fling the 'pass', it is not at all clear to me that he is not just shooting one on goal and is hoping for Read to collect the garbage. He often does that - turn around and fling the puck. A couple of times last season he scored almost zero angle goals that way.

The second one is a nice play, but I would not call that elite. I would expect a NHL regular to make that pass - he sees Read getting open and head for the net before he lowers his head. He does not 'thread' that pass, nor is it no look.

Sometimes B.Schenn makes high skill plays of the sort I am talking about. Remember his slap pass to Voracek on the pp in the playoff series against the Rangers? He looked Lundquist off and found Voracek. And the wrister Laughton snapped against the same goalie a few days ago.

I wish Couturier would show more glimpses like that. And I wish those glimpses would increase in frequency. There are two kinds of passes I see #14 make. One is a no look backhand. Usually this goes to a covered guy. The other is the kind of 'flinging' passes referred to earlier. Simmonds also 'flings' his passes the same way. Its not what I would call a deft pass, with a measured velocity.
- PT21

What is your definition of elite? And, are you expecting Couts to be that?

Sometimes the best thing to do is to put the puck to the net, good things happen when you get in front of the net.

I watched this with interest, thanks.

The first one: the way he turns around seems to fling the 'pass', it is not at all clear to me that he is not just shooting one on goal and is hoping for Read to collect the garbage. He often does that - turn around and fling the puck. A couple of times last season he scored almost zero angle goals that way.

The second one is a nice play, but I would not call that elite. I would expect a NHL regular to make that pass - he sees Read getting open and head for the net before he lowers his head. He does not 'thread' that pass, nor is it no look.

Sometimes B.Schenn makes high skill plays of the sort I am talking about. Remember his slap pass to Voracek on the pp in the playoff series against the Rangers? He looked Lundquist off and found Voracek. And the wrister Laughton snapped against the same goalie a few days ago.

I wish Couturier would show more glimpses like that. And I wish those glimpses would increase in frequency. There are two kinds of passes I see #14 make. One is a no look backhand. Usually this goes to a covered guy. The other is the kind of 'flinging' passes referred to earlier. Simmonds also 'flings' his passes the same way. Its not what I would call a deft pass, with a measured velocity.
- PT21

So your shtick is to come up with reasons why any good play by Couturier isn't really that good, and to bring up Couturier's supposed lack of offensive ability while the team is the middle of a nightmare stretch of offensive ineptitude without him in the lineup.

Noted.

that was a true top pairing?
- JoeRussomanno

It was sufficient as a top pairing, IMO. Bot great but sufficient. Kimmo was still an All-Star caliber player at that point (at least til getting worn down in the second half of the season) and Coburn was a good enough complimentary player.

I watched this with interest, thanks.

The first one: the way he turns around seems to fling the 'pass', it is not at all clear to me that he is not just shooting one on goal and is hoping for Read to collect the garbage. He often does that - turn around and fling the puck. A couple of times last season he scored almost zero angle goals that way.

The second one is a nice play, but I would not call that elite. I would expect a NHL regular to make that pass - he sees Read getting open and head for the net before he lowers his head. He does not 'thread' that pass, nor is it no look.

Sometimes B.Schenn makes high skill plays of the sort I am talking about. Remember his slap pass to Voracek on the pp in the playoff series against the Rangers? He looked Lundquist off and found Voracek. And the wrister Laughton snapped against the same goalie a few days ago.

I wish Couturier would show more glimpses like that. And I wish those glimpses would increase in frequency. There are two kinds of passes I see #14 make. One is a no look backhand. Usually this goes to a covered guy. The other is the kind of 'flinging' passes referred to earlier. Simmonds also 'flings' his passes the same way. Its not what I would call a deft pass, with a measured velocity.
- PT21

He's just shooting one on goal, from behind the net?

No offense, but then you need to watch the game better. He is one of the best passers on the team and has great vision. Rarely does he miss a pass and it's usually on the tape. He needs to assert himself and skate more when he has the puck so he can use that vision better. But he certainly is a very good passer.
- Mononoke

I think he is a ok passer. I just don't see this terrific on-ice vision thing in the offensive zone. He is stellar in the defensive zone in anticipating passes though.

Are you advocating that we should have traded couts and schenn for Weber? Serious question, I don't quite understand your post.
- VladDrag

If it was honestly only Couturier and Schenn for Shea Weber, I'd have done the deal instantly.

I watched this with interest, thanks.

The first one: the way he turns around seems to fling the 'pass', it is not at all clear to me that he is not just shooting one on goal and is hoping for Read to collect the garbage. He often does that - turn around and fling the puck. A couple of times last season he scored almost zero angle goals that way.

The second one is a nice play, but I would not call that elite. I would expect a NHL regular to make that pass - he sees Read getting open and head for the net before he lowers his head. He does not 'thread' that pass, nor is it no look.

Sometimes B.Schenn makes high skill plays of the sort I am talking about. Remember his slap pass to Voracek on the pp in the playoff series against the Rangers? He looked Lundquist off and found Voracek. And the wrister Laughton snapped against the same goalie a few days ago.

I wish Couturier would show more glimpses like that. And I wish those glimpses would increase in frequency. There are two kinds of passes I see #14 make. One is a no look backhand. Usually this goes to a covered guy. The other is the kind of 'flinging' passes referred to earlier. Simmonds also 'flings' his passes the same way. Its not what I would call a deft pass, with a measured velocity.
- PT21

you're welcome. those two just came to mind. i think he is a great passer. my issue with him is that he needs to be more selfish and aggressive, but that's what this season is for.

In any event, I'll take these kinds of plays any day:
http://video.nhl.com/videocenter/console?id=801042

What is your definition of elite? And, are you expecting Couts to be that?

Sometimes the best thing to do is to put the puck to the net, good things happen when you get in front of the net.
- VladDrag

I gave you a couple of examples. I was hoping he could anchor a 2nd line, yes. Not elite, but certainly a bona fide offensive threat. It is too early to expect him to be that in every game, but I dont see enough projections. He just looks awkward and clumsy with the puck to me.

I gave you a couple of examples. I was hoping he could anchor a 2nd line, yes. Not elite, but certainly a bona fide offensive threat. It is too early to expect him to be that in every game, but I dont see enough projections. He just looks awkward and clumsy with the puck to me.
- PT21

He's already shown that he can be a bona fide offensive threat. I think they need to tweak the mix. The Flyers need a player with speed and creativity for the 2nd line, preferably a LW, to play with Couturier.

you're welcome. those two just came to mind. i think he is a great passer. my issue with him is that he needs to be more selfish and aggressive, but that's what this season is for.

In any event, I'll take these kinds of plays any day:
http://video.nhl.com/videocenter/console?id=801042
- wilsonecho91

That's a very nice pass.

But, not often enough.

Did you hear Pierre refer to Couturier and White collectively as "depth players"?

That's a very nice pass.

But, not often enough.

Did you hear Pierre refer to Couturier and White collectively as "depth players"?
- PT21

now why would i subject myself to that?!

If it was honestly only Couturier and Schenn for Shea Weber, I'd have done the deal instantly.
- jmatchett383

+1, I'd imagine it wasn't however.

http://www.tsn.ca/pronger...-in-hall-of-fame-1.387374

In Philadelphia, Pronger was back together with Holmgren, the Flyers GM who 16 years earlier was his first NHL head coach. "It always comes full circle," Pronger said.

"We paid a big price for Chris, but I think it was worth it," Holmgren said. "We still got one of the best defensemen in the game, a guy that could control the play at both ends of the rink. His leadership on our team was important, he helped a young Mike Richards along those lines. So, he was a very good player for us."

In 2010, Pronger's first season in Philadelphia, the Flyers squeaked into the playoffs and made it all the way to the Stanley Cup finals before losing to the Chicago Blackhawks. Again, Pronger was a postseason monster.

"When we made that trade, we had just played the Penguins two years in a row and we thought, well, they're going to have [Sidney] Crosby and [Evgeni] Malkin forever, if we could just add one more top defenseman," Holmgren said. "We had Kimmo [Timonen] at the time, and a decent supporting case with [Brayden] Coburn and [Matt] Carle. If we could get one more guy, we could be more competitive with the Penguins."

Sadly, it would be the last great moment of Pronger's career, his career halted prematurely only a year and a half later by concussion issues and an eye injury. He was only a year and a half into a seven-year extension he had signed with the Flyers, a contract the Flyers honored.

It's not just that, Pronger said, but how the Flyers dealt with him after his injuries that he has so much respect for them, especially Holmgren and owner Ed Snider.

Holmgren made sure Pronger had everything he needed during this difficult period, while also beginning to open the door to life in hockey after his playing career, including Pronger's front-office life.

"To have his support and friendship and help, he was always asking me what I needed, what I wanted to do. I was able to bounce questions off him," Pronger said of Holmgren.

"He was so sincere. For anybody who has gone through it to have somebody to have your best interests at heart, it speaks volume to his character. Had I been somewhere else, who knows what would have happened? I was making a lot of money and wasn't playing. You can just imagine what the GM and owner are feeling. You're stuck in the abyss and not knowing what's next."

I gave you a couple of examples. I was hoping he could anchor a 2nd line, yes. Not elite, but certainly a bona fide offensive threat. It is too early to expect him to be that in every game, but I dont see enough projections. He just looks awkward and clumsy with the puck to me.
- PT21

I think high 40ies, low 50ies would do the job and Couts can certainly put that up with the right players around him.

I gave you a couple of examples. I was hoping he could anchor a 2nd line, yes. Not elite, but certainly a bona fide offensive threat. It is too early to expect him to be that in every game, but I dont see enough projections. He just looks awkward and clumsy with the puck to me.
- PT21

Sounds like you made your mind up a long time ago and nothing that he does will be enough.

But we saw at the World Champs how dangerous he can be offensively when given a chance.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ujr8Dwugkz4

Dunno if anybody posted this yet... nice Pronger retrospective as he prepares to enter the HHOF:

http://www.tsn.ca/pronger...-in-hall-of-fame-1.387374
- Tomahawk

One teammate Pronger won't ever forget, though, was the late Brad McCrimmon, who took the youngster under his wing and showed him the ropes.

"You need a veteran presence like that to help school you and bring you along and teach you how to be a professional," Pronger said. "I roomed with him on the road, he was my D partner. I spent every waking minute with this guy, who was old enough to be my dad. He left a lasting impression on me. A lot of the things I do today I say, 'This is what Beast taught me.' Some good, some bad," Pronger said, chuckling.

"To have somebody like that that to learn from, it was huge."

So, when are we trading Streit?

I think 2017-2018 is when it starts to get exciting again.
- Scoob

terrific.

Couts: Out
Medvedev: Out
Manning: In

Discuss

He's just shooting one on goal, from behind the net?
- MJL

I was referring to the first video.