Typical Flyers, dirty Thugs take out McDavid... Some things never change

Anyone worried about the future timeline for this team ?

My main concern is regarding the young group of our stud D prospects coming up and being NHL ready and effective (3-4 years ?) and the age of our current forwards. Our elite guys (G and Jake for example) are going to be 31-32 years old by that time.

Giroux: 27
Voracek: 27 (this summer)
Simmonds: 27
Read: 29
Gagner: 26

Being patient, developing prospects, accumulating and keeping draft picks is the GM's philosophy, I get it in today's cap world, but seeing the prime years of your best players on a bad team waiting for our D prospects is a painful reality.
- Chris48

I think you should brace yourself to watch the current core's best years wasted right in front of your eyes. They may have a shot when they're in their early thirties. Right now you have to start drafting forwards. Hopefully high quality forwards. Forwards develop quicker so they should hit their stride about the same time as the defensive prospects.

While I'm not a proponent of moving our current core, It's something they should probably do over the next few years. With the way they're performing year in and year out as a group. we probably won't be missing much. It's a shame. I really like most of these guys but the team is just terrible.

When you figure out why it keeps happening, or how to keep it from happening, let me know. I can't figure out why it repeatedly happens to this team going back years. I think it's about leadership.

It follows a predictable pattern. They take an opponent lightly, don't play with the urgency that is needed, have a few games of suspect effort, in which poor habits develop, such as not continuing to skate on backchecks, getting outnumbered on the puck, not making routine plays, which in turns leads to almost a team wide paralysis of self doubt, to where it all snowballs, into one big pile of dung!
- MJL

**EPIPHANY**

Maybe we had it wrong all this time. lol
Maybe the pattern should be analyzed from another perspective.
Is it possible the elite teams (TBL, CHI, NYR) are TAKEN US too lightly and we end up being competitive and able keep up with the best of them as a result ?


The mystery of the Philadelphia Flyers continues...

Typical Flyers, dirty Thugs take out McDavid... Some things never change
- Amanion

Exactly, like trolling a thread

No. At worst they got tangled up. The spin seems to be he's such a fast player that he lost his edge trying to stop and that his exit from the ice was soooooo heroic that his legend has just grown.
- mayorofangrytown

I was watching NHL Live a little bit ago and for the first time ever, I wanted to strangle E.J. Hradek. Usually, he's pretty even handed and possessed of common sense, but today he just wouldnt let go of the notion that Manning was responsible for McDavid's injury because he tugged on McDavid's jersey, spinning him around, sending him to the ice and into the boards. Everyone else has pretty much said either they got their skates tangled (which is what it looks like to me) or McDavid lost an edge and went down.

To recap: its the legend of McDavid's heroic speedskating ability vs. the legend of the Flyers' history of dirty play.

My personal take on the play: poop happens. Hockey's dangerous. Wear your helmet.

**EPIPHANY**

Maybe we had it wrong all this time. lol
Maybe the pattern should be analyzed from another perspective.
Is it possible the elite teams (TBL, CHI, NYR) are TAKEN US too lightly and we end up being competitive and able keep up with the best of them as a result ?


The mystery of the Philadelphia Flyers continues...
- Chris48

In my opinion, one of the reasons a team becomes an elite team is that they don't take other teams lightly, and they play with a consistent level of urgency, and work ethic. Teams like the Flyers, don't. When you couple that with the talent weaknesses they're already faced with, not a good combination.

Pavel Bure or Alexander Ovechkin
Sergei Fedorov or Pavel Datsyuk
Peter Forsberg or Evgeni Malkin
Paul Kariya or Rick Nash
Teemu Selanne or Patrick Kane
- Scoob

Agree with all except Kariya over Nash.

In my opinion, the gap between the developing defenseman, and the current core of forwards, is the single biggest issue facing this team in the future. More than the cap and the situation with players like Lecavalier, and MacDonald.
- MJL

G and Jake are elite talents that you keep. The other forwards can be traded to playoff contenders who are looking for that help, they are entirely replaceable through UFA or the picks/prospects you'd be able to get back. You say core, I limit that to G and Jake, everyone else is replaceable. Keep Coots he's the 3C for a long time, and I'd keep B Schenn because he's cost controlled this summer.

Agree with all except Kariya over Nash.
- SuperSchennBros

I'm assuming that the team I'm building will get to the playoffs.

G and Jake are elite talents that you keep. The other forwards can be traded to playoff contenders who are looking for that help, they are entirely replaceable through UFA or the picks/prospects you'd be able to get back. You say core, I limit that to G and Jake, everyone else is replaceable. Keep Coots he's the 3C for a long time, and I'd keep B Schenn because he's cost controlled this summer.
- Just5

B Schenn really isn't cost controlled. What he will cost in a multi year deal is going to depend on how good of a year he has. Flyers can play the QO RFA game, but he can elect arbitration.

Laughton is basically a rookie, who they drafted a few years ago with a #1 pick, and have been developing. They should dump him and start over? I don't see the Flyers using UFA to replace the entirely replaceable players.

General question: If you can leave out injuries and are starting a team today, would you take:

Pavel Bure or Alexander Ovechkin
Sergei Fedorov or Pavel Datsyuk
Peter Forsberg or Evgeni Malkin
Paul Kariya or Rick Nash
Teemu Selanne or Patrick Kane
- jmatchett383

Ovechkin
Datsyuk
Forsberg
Nash
Selanne

I saw the Hakstol interview last night. It seemed like he was just deflecting some blame to himself tbh. A singular timeout wouldn't have cut down on being out shot attempted by almost 50.

I feel like the system is a shell of what it was earlier. I don't see the aggressive NZ play at all now. It's just sit and defend, get the puck, turn it over or chip it in. Everyone is skittish.
- Mononoke

Things have snowballed badly. At first, I'm not sure you could blame leadership. But at this point it's an obvious factor. At some point they need to rally around somebody or something. There's no confidence, and worse not much skill to force other teams to respect the guys not named Giroux or Voracek.

Rather than being aggressive, there's doubt and second thoughts. It's infecting every part of their game.

I think Giroux and Voracek are trying to do everything they can on the ice, to try and lead, but the production is not there. I think Giroux's puck management and discipline has been somewhat of a problem lately. Basically this team has been infected with a virus affecting the OS and performance.

Typical Flyers, dirty Thugs take out McDavid... Some things never change
- Amanion

next!

In my opinion, one of the reasons a team becomes an elite team is that they don't take other teams lightly, and they play with a consistent level of urgency, and work ethic. Teams like the Flyers, don't. When you couple that with the talent weaknesses they're already faced with, not a good combination.
- MJL

Teams are all trying new systems wrinkles, working in new players, auditioning rookies, etc. That makes October hockey relatively sloppy and mistakes/bounces determine more outcomes than at other times of the year. I would think that would have somewhat of a mitigating effect on the talent gap between elite teams and the rest.

Once the good teams get their poop together and get into gear... the talent-disparity becomes much more pronounced and a bigger advantage.

time to trade Voracek, and Giroux
- Winning

Okay

I think Giroux and Voracek are trying to do everything they can on the ice, to try and lead, but the production is not there. I think Giroux's puck management and discipline has been somewhat of a problem lately. Basically this team has been infected with a virus affecting the OS and performance.
- MJL

Their on-ice shooting percentages are way below career norms(both at 5v5 and on the PP) so the production will come soon and likely in bunches.

Typical Flyers, dirty Thugs take out McDavid... Some things never change
- Amanion

Cindy and Gina are next, son.

Things have snowballed badly. At first, I'm not sure you could blame leadership. But at this point it's an obvious factor. At some point they need to rally around somebody or something. There's no confidence, and worse not much skill to force other teams to respect the guys not named Giroux or Voracek.

Rather than being aggressive, there's doubt and second thoughts. It's infecting every part of their game.
- Jsaquella

I just find it difficult to blame Hakstol's system when it did so well against good competition (not directed at you). Forechecking was tenacious and aggressive; NZ play was guarding the blue line; puck was retrieved in the d zone and quickly outletted up the middle. We all know the personnel blows, which makes it even more impressive they looked good in only their first few games with the system. It has nothing to do with the system because the players aren't even playing it anymore. They play like they're ECHL players defending a 5 goal lead against the Gretzky led Oilers (don't ask me how they got that lead haha).

B Schenn really isn't cost controlled. What he will cost in a multi year deal is going to depend on how good of a year he has. Flyers can play the QO RFA game, but he can elect arbitration.

Laughton is basically a rookie, who they drafted a few years ago with a #1 pick, and have been developing. They should dump him and start over? I don't see the Flyers using UFA to replace the entirely replaceable players.
- MJL

The original post was referencing the gap between the young defensemen and current core of forwards. Really I'm talking about that upper 20's group of forwards that's been here

B Schenn really isn't cost controlled. What he will cost in a multi year deal is going to depend on how good of a year he has. Flyers can play the QO RFA game, but he can elect arbitration.

Laughton is basically a rookie, who they drafted a few years ago with a #1 pick, and have been developing. They should dump him and start over? I don't see the Flyers using UFA to replace the entirely replaceable players.
- MJL

He's talking about "core" players though. In that sense I can't get include Laughton in whatever core we have.

That said, I would hang onto Laughton.

Teams are all trying new systems wrinkles, working in new players, auditioning rookies, etc. That makes October hockey relatively sloppy and mistakes/bounces determine more outcomes than at other times of the year. I would think that would have somewhat of a mitigating effect on the talent gap between elite teams and the rest.

Once the good teams get their poop together and get into gear... the talent-disparity becomes much more pronounced and a bigger advantage.
- Tomahawk

One or two players isn't going to change a whole lot, as far matchups between teams. For instance, Chicago is still driven by Toews, Kane, Keith, Seabrooke, Hossa, and Hjamarlsson. Coaches like Quenneville and Vigneault who have had success, aren't changing a whole lot systems wise. So much is misunderstood about systems, and what it is. As an example what has always given the Flyers fits, is Vigneault's simple quick up, and over-over breakouts. Normally kills the Flyers, but it didn't last game because the Flyers actually established a forecheck which changes the dynamic of the game. Even if what you said was true, it would be the same for all teams.

I think Giroux and Voracek are trying to do everything they can on the ice, to try and lead, but the production is not there. I think Giroux's puck management and discipline has been somewhat of a problem lately. Basically this team has been infected with a virus affecting the OS and performance.
- MJL

ctrl-alt-del

The original post was referencing the gap between the young defensemen and current core of forwards. Really I'm talking about that upper 20's group of forwards that's been here
- Just5

You made this statement

"You say core, I limit that to G and Jake, everyone else is replaceable."

"Everyone else" is pretty clear. I consider Laughton very much a part of the core.

He's talking about "core" players though. In that sense I can't get include Laughton in whatever core we have.

That said, I would hang onto Laughton.
- hereticpride

Not sure what you're saying here.