I'm not completely sure either way. It's possible I think. It's so hard to tell with the garbage he is usually saddled with. IMO Simmonds doesn't fit. He's at a position right now that the Flyers are deep in, not to mention Konecny will be banging down the door for time also most likely next year. I think Hak wants a certain style of forward to employ his forechecking model. Look no further than the minutes he gives the 4th line. Most of those guys have the elements that he wants. None of them have all the elements. Hakstol needs forwards that turn the puck over in the offensive zone. Simmonds and B Schenn don't do it enough. Although they're willing to lay the body, its not as important as being in the right spot at the right time. Ryan White is guy who I think the coach loves but is just lacking in the physical skills. But in his head he gets it and often turns the puck over.

Also if G and Coots are the centers going forward, you need more burst in the lineup. Especially guys that have bursts in their first steps (like Laughton) are going to be critical. Yeah maybe B Schenn and Simmonds. I have them on the outside looking in. Read looks more and more like a fit
- Just5

I agree with a lot of this

We also can't assume that no other trade was available at the time. For all we know, the fool GM who made a desperate trade was Hextall, after looking at the contract term.

I respect the other position on this, and I'm not agonizing or losing sleep over this, so I'm just gonna leave it as an "agree to disagree" type jawn.
- BulliesPhan87

Are we going to judge the trade on what may have been available? How do we quantify that? That's irrelevant. We might as well say that Hextall could've gotten Steven Stamkos for Hartnell and he screwed up! That's an exaggeration but it get's a point across.

bet the Leafs could get more then Luke Schenn for JVR too....just sayin.


- landros 2

What does that have to do with the Hartnell deal?

We are all abundantly aware of how you feel, both about Couturier's deal and fellatio.
- BulliesPhan87

What does that have to do with the Hartnell deal?
- MJL

just a comparison....two deals where the better player left....clear?

mood

just a comparison....two deals where the better player left....clear?
- landros 2

Not all there was to the trade. Do you not think that Hextall knew he was trading the better player?

mood
- aightwebang17

Moderate with bursts of absolute rage -- in other words, the usual

mood
- aightwebang17

"horny"


- rinaldo

Are we going to judge the trade on what may have been available? How do we quantify that? That's irrelevant. We might as well say that Hextall could've gotten Steven Stamkos for Hartnell and he screwed up! That's an exaggeration but it get's a point across.
- MJL

Ok.

Ok.
- BulliesPhan87

lol

horny


- rinaldo
- Nucker101

That was new

Why would I include what the Flyers may be able to get for Hartnell today, when one, the Flyers don't have Hartnell to trade today, and second, we don't know what they could get for him. That makes all of that completely irrelevant in determining the outcome of the trade.

Explain to me definitively how it could've been better? I'm not dealing in a hypothetical here, I'm dealing with what actually did happen, and looking at what the Flyers will do when Umberger's deal ends.
- MJL

I know what you are doing and what I am saying is it is completely one sided. You are right to a certain extent. Whats done is done and that is all that really matters, but in the interest of debating whether or not it was a good trade, ignoring what Hextall could get for Hartnell today after most likely more seasons of high end point production on the top line and PP is just being ignorant.

I agree with those that have already stated it, there is value to trading Hartnell and allowing us to draft who we did. In some ways it was a necessary part of the rebuild. Personally, I think more cap relief should have come our way in the deal but whatever. I still would make the trade I think and I don't fault Hextall for doing it. Hartnell makes the team more fun to watch and maybe helps us into the playoffs, but we wouldnt contend for a cup. Plus it gives us someone else to bash and more to talk about on here

is noscoracek still playing? Bigger question what the hell happened to the team that started this season? We all knew they weren't a cup team, maybe maybe a playoff bubble team, but wow have the wheels really come off this one. They started off with fight and looked like a team that cared and was going to change it's evil ways the new coach looked to have brought the fire back, but nope. It looks to be another long season of watching players that talk a big game, but show none of it on the ice were it matters.

I know what you are doing and what I am saying is it is completely one sided. You are right to a certain extent. Whats done is done and that is all that really matters, but in the interest of debating whether or not it was a good trade, ignoring what Hextall could get for Hartnell today after most likely more seasons of high end point production on the top line and PP is just being ignorant.


- YuenglingJagr

This is hysterical. How can you possibly say that ignoring what a team could get for a player today, when they don't have the player, and two, you don't know what they could get for him, is ignorant? Of course I'm ignoring that as a factor, simply because you can't trade a player you don't have the rights to!

Any hypothetical of what they might be able to get for him today, is completely irrelevant in looking at the outcome of the trade.

To Columbus: Scott Hartnell

To Flyers: R.J. Umberger 4th round draft pick, future cap flexibility due to less years on Umberger's deal.

Those are the only factors of the trade to consider.

lol
- Nucker101

He goes hard every shift of every thread. Maybe he's the leader the team needs.

Be nice to see the phantoms put together back to back strong efforts. They're getting healthier lets go boys

mood
- aightwebang17

ballsy

ballsy
- funmaster18

Well-played, sir

ballsy
- funmaster18

has the very bad no good year begun it's dramatic turn around yet?

This is hysterical. How can you possibly say that ignoring what a team could get for a player today, when they don't have the player, and two, you don't know what they could get for him, is ignorant? Of course I'm ignoring that as a factor, simply because you can't trade a player you don't have the rights to!

Any hypothetical of what they might be able to get for him today, is completely irrelevant in looking at the outcome of the trade.
- MJL

I guess I am just reading a completely different blog. Seemed to me that many people were discussing having Hartnell still, whether or not Hextall should have made that trade. It is more than just did Hextall make a good trade. You are suggesting we take into account what is done with the cap space we get after Umberger is gone. Does that involve someone who, dare I say, isn't on the team?!? You are using a hypothetical to support your argument while saying it is hysterical to use one against your argument.

From what I saw they out worked the caps for the first part of the 1st period, worked hard to gain a 1-0 lead, and then Kunetsov did some magic lickety split with the puck and Oshie cashed.

Maybe the effort sagged a bit but I think more then this they tightened up.
I think the team is not really being out worked, but they just are not that good.

When they play at the very top of their ability level, with confidence (which is in the toilet right now) and get stellar goaltending they can compete for short times with many teams.

At their nadir (right now) they are a bottom 5 team in the league.

If everything has to go just right for them to compete, they are going to lose a lot more then win.

The team is only going to be as strong as their worst players. When they have to roll out guys like Manning and Schultz, VLC, etc for significant minutes, good teams are going to find a way to exploit match ups and take advantage.

I guess I am just reading a completely different blog. Seemed to me that many people were discussing having Hartnell still, whether or not Hextall should have made that trade. It is more than just did Hextall make a good trade. You are suggesting we take into account what is done with the cap space we get after Umberger is gone. Does that involve someone who, dare I say, isn't on the team?!? You are using a hypothetical to support your argument while saying it is hysterical to use one against your argument.
- YuenglingJagr

Stating that the Flyers will gain cap space when Umberger's deal expires is a hypothetical, and is not real? Cap space and cap flexibility is a real asset in today's NHL.
If you go back and read my posts, I've left how the Flyers use that cap space as open ended, and a factor that has yet to be determined of the trade. I have not hypothesized how the Flyers will use that cap space.

Really, stating that the Flyers will gain cap space when Umberger's deal expires is a hypothetical, and is not real? Cap space and cap flexibility is a real asset in today's NHL.
- MJL

I've made it clear I know the value of cap space and flexibility. I also said that I agree with you in terms of putting the trade in a vacuum and asking, "Who won that trade?" That is different from, "Did Hextall make a good trade?" which is what I believe was being discussed. It is all very relative at that point and it is fair game to bring in what might have been if Steve Hartnell is on the team today. You can even bring in the other side of that and say maybe it was part of Hextall's plan to torpedo the team into draft picks necessary to rebuild.

I've made it clear I know the value of cap space and flexibility. I also said that I agree with you in terms of putting the trade in a vacuum and asking, "Who won that trade?" That is different from, "Did Hextall make a good trade?" which is what I believe was being discussed. It is all very relative at that point and it is fair game to bring in what might have been if Steve Hartnell is on the team today. You can even bring in the other side of that and say maybe it was part of Hextall's plan to torpedo the team into draft picks necessary to rebuild.
- YuenglingJagr

We are looking at it from two very different perspectives then. I'm looking at what actually happened, and what each team actually acquired. Also from the perspective regardless of what question you want to ask, which doesn't really matter, that there is a factor in the trade that has not completely played out yet. What they hypothetically could've gotten today or any other time for Hartnell, isn't and will never be a factor in determining the outcome when all is said and done. For either question. It's simply not real.