From what I saw they out worked the caps for the first part of the 1st period, worked hard to gain a 1-0 lead, and then Kunetsov did some magic lickety split with the puck and Oshie cashed.

Maybe the effort sagged a bit but I think more then this they tightened up.
I think the team is not really being out worked, but they just are not that good.

When they play at the very top of their ability level, with confidence (which is in the toilet right now) and get stellar goaltending they can compete for short times with many teams.

At their nadir (right now) they are a bottom 5 team in the league.

If everything has to go just right for them to compete, they are going to lose a lot more then win.

The team is only going to be as strong as their worst players. When they have to roll out guys like Manning and Schultz, VLC, etc for significant minutes, good teams are going to find a way to exploit match ups and take advantage.
- Marc D

Sound reasonable to me. With an acceptable effort they'll win some and lose many. With a poor effort they'll lose very very badly

. What they hypothetically could've gotten today or any other time for Hartnell, isn't and will never be a factor in determining the outcome when all is said and done. For either question. It's simply not real.
- MJL

Yes, it is and will. When we do something with the cap space we get from Umberger expiring/buying out/trading what do you compare it to? What Hartnell was like 3 years ago???

The value of having Umberger off the books 2 years earlier is irrelevant if you trade Hartnell today for someone who has a deal that expires this year or next year. The point of the trade (ignoring the player that Umberger is) is the value to the team in the future and you cant use that as a measuring stick for the trade while ignoring the value to the team if the trade never happened, which is a real, tangible thing.

I remember when everyone complained about #19 and now they love him

He goes hard every shift of every thread. Maybe he's the leader the team needs.
- BulliesPhan87

but not the one we deserve

I remember when everyone complained about #19 and now they love him
- vejim

19?

Yes, it is and will. When we do something with the cap space we get from Umberger expiring/buying out/trading what do you compare it to? What Hartnell was like 3 years ago???


- YuenglingJagr

Why would I compare it to what Hartnell was like 3 years ago? Maybe you would, but I wouldn't. That doesn't make sense.

The value of having Umberger off the books 2 years earlier is irrelevant if you trade Hartnell today for someone who has a deal that expires this year or next year. The point of the trade (ignoring the player that Umberger is) is the value to the team in the future and you cant use that as a measuring stick for the trade while ignoring the value to the team if the trade never happened, which is a real, tangible thing.
- YuenglingJagr

The Flyers cannot trade Hartnell today. He plays for the Columbus Blue Jackets. The trade did happen, which is why I'm looking at what actually happened. I'm not ignoring the players who were actually traded. That Hartnell was the better player between Hartnell and Umberger is a factor when looking at the trade.

but not the one we deserve
- 2Real

I remember when everyone complained about #19 and now they love him
- vejim

It was Love/Hate thing. I loved (the season) when he found a sweet spot to bury one timers from. I hated when he took dumb penalties and when he threw his glove in attempt to stop a breakaway. He was at least a personality and this team has yet to find a solid top line LW since he left

Not all there was to the trade. Do you not think that Hextall knew he was trading the better player?
- MJL

Yes....but if he knew Hartnell was still that capable and Umberger was that brutal....then it was a clueless trade...two extra years of cap relief to sign what ? Who? And as you answer those questions ask yourself was it worth it....the answer is ridiculously easy.

Yes....but if he knew Hartnell was still that capable and Umberger was that brutal....then it was a clueless trade...two extra years of cap relief to sign what ? Who? And as you answer those questions ask yourself was it worth it....the answer is ridiculously easy.
- landros 2

I don't think Hextall expected Umberger to play as poorly as he did last season. He expected to get a better player in my opinion. You can't answer the other questions yet, so I can't offer a final determination yet.

This is hysterical. How can you possibly say that ignoring what a team could get for a player today, when they don't have the player, and two, you don't know what they could get for him, is ignorant? Of course I'm ignoring that as a factor, simply because you can't trade a player you don't have the rights to!

Any hypothetical of what they might be able to get for him today, is completely irrelevant in looking at the outcome of the trade.

To Columbus: Scott Hartnell

To Flyers: R.J. Umberger 4th round draft pick, future cap flexibility due to less years on Umberger's deal.

Those are the only factors of the trade to consider.
- MJL

Those are not the only factors to the trade....there the only ones you wish to address.

19?
- 2Real

Hartnell

I don't think Hextall expected Umberger to play as poorly as he did last season. He expected to get a better player in my opinion. You can't answer the other questions yet, so I can't offer a final determination yet.
- MJL

So at this point the deal looks bad but it may one day work out....I hate hypotheticals...I like reality.

Those are not the only factors to the trade....there the only ones you wish to address.
- landros 2

Feel free to name other factors, and we can address them.

- BulliesPhan87

GOT EM

So at this point the deal looks bad but it may one day work out....I hate hypotheticals...I like reality.
- landros 2

In terms of the actual players that were dealt, it was always known that the Flyers gave up the better player. The Flyers also gained future cap flexibility in the deal, which is not a hypothetical, and is in a fact, reality. Cap flexibility is a real asset, and was the impetus for making the deal. As I stated earlier, I think Hextall expected the gap between the two players to be closer.

Hartnell
- YuenglingJagr

people forgot about his dumb penalties

Feel free to name other factors, and we can address them.
- MJL

your trolling to start with

In terms of the actual players that were dealt, it was always known that the Flyers gave up the better player. The Flyers also gained future cap flexibility in the deal, which is not a hypothetical, and is in a fact, reality. Cap flexibility is a real asset, and was the impetus for making the deal. As I stated earlier, I think Hextall expected the gap between the two players to be closer.
- MJL

Everyone gets what the Flyers gained....I simply think that the price was too high.

people forgot about his dumb penalties
- 2Real

No they didn't. I think when people talk about how much they miss him now it is more about the whole package than the on ice product. He is one of the most interesting personalities in the league and having him on the team would make this season much more watchable/enjoyable in my opinion.

has the very bad no good year begun it's dramatic turn around yet?
- BulliesPhan87

I get that!

No they didn't. I think when people talk about how much they miss him now it is more about the whole package than the on ice product. He is one of the most interesting personalities in the league and having him on the team would make this season much more watchable/enjoyable in my opinion.
- YuenglingJagr

john scott is a much cheaper alternative

I guess I am just reading a completely different blog. Seemed to me that many people were discussing having Hartnell still, whether or not Hextall should have made that trade. It is more than just did Hextall make a good trade. You are suggesting we take into account what is done with the cap space we get after Umberger is gone. Does that involve someone who, dare I say, isn't on the team?!? You are using a hypothetical to support your argument while saying it is hysterical to use one against your argument.
- YuenglingJagr

you must be new here, lol

Feel free to name other factors, and we can address them.
- MJL

One player is a top 6 forward that still produces, still leads and the other guy blows.

One player is a top 6 forward that still produces, still leads and the other guy blows.
- landros 2

If you're claiming that I'm not looking and comparing the two players, and who is the better player as a factor in looking at the trade, you're completely wrong.