watching V last night he looks a bit thin and sickly
- vejim

LTIR

I honestly think effort had little to do with the performance this game. I think it has had less to do with a lot of the losses than people are saying. This is not a group that doesn't care, that treats games frivolously, that doesn't want to win. They just flat out are a mediocre team. I see guys competing hard on the walls, trying to do what they can most shifts, but when all you can do isn't all that much, well...nuts.

They need perfect performances to have a shot at winning if their opponents aren't going to hand it to them. This is basically last year minus the sterling PP and Voracek leading the Art Ross race. Nothing new -- just last year's struggles accentuated with this year's bad luck.
- Mononoke

I disagree that effort has had little to do with the performance this game. How many times when the Flyers were on the PP, did we see 3 caps on the puck against 2 Flyers? Still seeing players gliding on the backcheck, and not continuing to move their feet. It's still an issue, not to mention once the Caps got the 3rd goal, again, they hanged their heads and their play degraded further. That's not all of it, talent issues are part of it. They aren't even a mediocre team right now, they are below that. There is zero doubt in my mind that this team can be a better team. No doubt. Effort, and playing with urgency, is a big part of why they're not.

I agree with what you are saying but the Leafs are made up of spare parts and one solid young Dman. On paper the Flyers should be putting a better product on the ice. However they are not. I would waive or trade people now! Get the youth in the lineup.
- 3flyerkids

Leafs have 2 dmen better than any of ours.

The leafs skate better than we do. We are the worst skating team in the league.

I disagree that effort has had little to do with the performance this game. How many times when the Flyers were on the PP, did we see 3 caps on the puck against 2 Flyers? Still seeing players gliding on the backcheck, and not continuing to move their feet. It's still an issue, not to mention once the Caps got the 3rd goal, again, they hanged their heads and their play degraded further. That's not all of it, talent issues are part of it. They aren't even a mediocre team right now, they are below that. There is zero doubt in my mind that this team can be a better team. No doubt. Effort, and playing with urgency, is a big part of why they're not.
- MJL

I also feel they are just bad with fundamentals. I've never seen so many players of ours just stand there waiting for the puck to them. They have to keep their skates moving. It's so easy to cut one of our guys off on the boards if they are standing in the corner waiting for it. As well as careless passing. We just can't get any penetration once we get in the O zone too. It's like every team can predict where we are going and it seems we can't get most shots even on the net.

Leafs have 2 dmen better than any of ours.

The leafs skate better than we do. We are the worst skating team in the league.
- Just5

You're probably right.

It's scary because we have a few guys who are thought to be pass first type players rather then shooters and even their passing isn't all that great.

Watch a team like the Sharks. Beautiful passers and skaters. The Flyers can't play anything like that.

I also feel they are just bad with fundamentals. I've never seen so many players of ours just stand there waiting for the puck to them. They have to keep their skates moving. It's so easy to cut one of our guys off on the boards if they are standing in the corner waiting for it. As well as careless passing. We just can't get any penetration once we get in the O zone too. It's like every team can predict where we are going and it seems we can't get most shots even on the net.
- arichardson22

Absolutely, their execution overall is poor, passing and catching passes is poor. Patterns on breakouts and through the neutral zone is poor, they aren't playing with good structure. They're playing as individuals, not as a team. The perfect example is Jake Voracek. His lack of scoring is not due to puck luck, as some want to believe, it's due to the way that he is playing. He doesn't get around the net that often, it's all on the perimeter, and it's all low percentage plays. When he does get a decent chance, he hasn't finished. I know this is not how they're being coached by Hakstol to play. Many want to throw this on just talent. That's bull. This is what happens when a team that does have talent issues, plays poorly as a team both in terms of execution and structure, and lacks urgency in their play. They were improved effort wise from the Avs game, but not good enough.

I understand that Hexy is preaching patience and that the salary cap is causing an inability to make any significant moves, however, I do feel that management's judgment of the talent level of many of the team's core players has been poor. G, Jake (current slump not withstanding) and Mase are all definite keepers and I'd argue DelZotto is too. Most posters on here rave about Coots and that he hasn't been utilized correctly in the past, which has caused his not so great point totals. I disagree...just don't see the finishing ability from him. Simmonds, while being a strong net, physical presence, is pretty awful in the neutral zone and the defensive zone. Raffl looks like a shell of what he was last year, not sure why. B. Schenn is wildly inconsistent offensively and doesn't play hard enough in his own end. I could continue, but what's the point? Too many parts that don't equal a good enough whole

16 goals in 30 games pathetic
Voracek 0 goals in 16 games pathetic
non competitive listless hockey pathetic
inept management pathetic
a non qualified coach in over his head pathetic
no cups in 40 years pathetic

All that being said, the future is bright! 4 future Norris Trophy winners are on the way. Patience everyone.

Anyone else see the article I think from philly mag asking if this is the time to trade Giroux?
- arichardson22

It was pretty stupid. Made analogies to other sports as to why they shouldn't keep him.

He's going to likely be 30 when they start really competing again, but that doesn't mean he won't be effective. He just won't be one of the best centers in the NHL. He'll need more help. By then, the roster should be pretty stocked with high end players. His veteran leadership will be important.

I understand that Hexy is preaching patience and that the salary cap is causing an inability to make any significant moves, however, I do feel that management's judgment of the talent level of many of the team's core players has been poor. G, Jake (current slump not withstanding) and Mase are all definite keepers and I'd argue DelZotto is too. Most posters on here rave about Coots and that he hasn't been utilized correctly in the past, which has caused his not so great point totals. I disagree...just don't see the finishing ability from him. Simmonds, while being a strong net, physical presence, is pretty awful in the neutral zone and the defensive zone. Raffl looks like a shell of what he was last year, not sure why. B. Schenn is wildly inconsistent offensively and doesn't play hard enough in his own end. I could continue, but what's the point? Too many parts that don't equal a good enough whole
- aantny88

Flyers have a lot of good players, but they just don't have the right mix of players. There is no offensive catalyst, for the lower lines, and they lack players with speed, and creativity on the lower lines. Defensively, they lack a top pairing.

It was pretty stupid. Made analogies to other sports as to why they shouldn't keep him.

He's going to likely be 30 when they start really competing again, but that doesn't mean he won't be effective. He just won't be one of the best centers in the NHL. He'll need more help. By then, the roster should be pretty stocked with high end players. His veteran leadership will be important.
- PhillySportsGuy

I don't think it's a preposterous idea. It's not about Giroux not being a good player when he's in his 30's, it's about what a potential trade of Giroux can do to set a team up for the future, if the right deal is out there.

What's going on with you guys, not trying to troll, but i thought the Flyers would've been better than this??
- Rangers_Suck01

I don't think anyone expected them to collapse like this after playing so well against you guys, or to be last in the league in scoring.

giroux for forsberg and jones + .... GID HekSteal...

It was pretty stupid. Made analogies to other sports as to why they shouldn't keep him.

He's going to likely be 30 when they start really competing again, but that doesn't mean he won't be effective. He just won't be one of the best centers in the NHL. He'll need more help. By then, the roster should be pretty stocked with high end players. His veteran leadership will be important.
- PhillySportsGuy

Besides all of the hockey reasons. Cap wise I don't see how they would make it work with a team. Flyers aren't going to want to take salary back. Their going to want picks and prospects exclusively. What team can make a giroux contract fit?

Nashville maybe?

watching V last night he looks a bit thin and sickly
- vejim

I dunno. He always kinda looks like that. He's a ginger.

Keep Simmonds and Medvedev as well. The rest can go for draft picks at the deadline. Embrace the rebuild and after the deadline bring up the best of the Phantoms and give them the experience they will need for next October.
- Slipperypickle

why keep Medvedev? he hasn't shown anything special...not opposed to keeping him though would move in no problem

Flyers have a lot of good players, but they just don't have the right mix of players. There is no offensive catalyst, for the lower lines, and they lack players with speed, and creativity on the lower lines. Defensively, they lack a top pairing.
- MJL

I guess that depends on your definition of a lot...I see maybe 6 good players. 3 that are borderline elite. The rest are average or worse. I do agree that the mix is terrible and the defense corps is pretty awful.

why keep Medvedev? he hasn't shown anything special...not opposed to keeping him though would move in no problem
- rinaldo

I would trade Medvedev at the deadline unless he shows he's worthy of a multi-year extension. Which he hasn't come close to yet.

I guess that depends on your definition of a lot...I see maybe 6 good players. 3 that are borderline elite. The rest are average or worse. I do agree that the mix is terrible and the defense corps is pretty awful.
- aantny88

They have a lot more than just 6 good players. Heck, they have two good goalies alone.

16 goals in 30 games pathetic
Voracek 0 goals in 16 games pathetic
non competitive listless hockey pathetic
inept management pathetic
a non qualified coach in over his head pathetic
no cups in 40 years pathetic

All that being said, the future is bright! 4 future Norris Trophy winners are on the way. Patience everyone.
- PLindbergh31

jake as been struggling since last year. this isn't news really.

you cant rebuild in any half ass way. You need to tear it down and start from the bottom. management def overvalued the talent as someone has mentioned. jake and Giroux are wasted assets on this team.

there is no easy fix. this team flat out stinks. lacks skill and the intangible things the flyers were always known for.

I don't think it's a preposterous idea. It's not about Giroux not being a good player when he's in his 30's, it's about what a potential trade of Giroux can do to set a team up for the future, if the right deal is out there.
- MJL

I just think it's a bad idea. Finding a top 10 center is as hard as finding a top 10 dman.

If they wanted to make a major move, they should have traded Jake at last year's deadline. They opted to re-sign him, which was fine.

I feel their are much better options than trading Giroux. They can deal guys like Simmonds, Streit and B Schenn for mid-late first rounders. Look at what happened with Joe Thornton. The Bruins dealt him and got nothing in return. They were able to rebuild anyway, but imagine how many cups they would have won if they kept Thornton with Chara, Bergeron and Krejci.

Besides all of the hockey reasons. Cap wise I don't see how they would make it work with a team. Flyers aren't going to want to take salary back. Their going to want picks and prospects exclusively. What team can make a giroux contract fit?

Nashville maybe?
- Just5

along as there is one team interested you have potential to make a deal happen.

Nashville has been on the cusp for a long time. Giroux could easily put them over the top. they need to make a move, a legit move, to go for it at some point

I would trade Medvedev at the deadline unless he shows he's worthy of a multi-year extension. Which he hasn't come close to yet.
- Feanor

The dynamic player we saw in pre season, seems to have disappeared somewhat. I still like his puck skills and creativity, and his ability to shoot the puck, but he seems to be having defensive issues lately.

Babcock, due to his body of work, commands respect. I don't think the Flyers have anywhere near that type of respect for Hakstol. The only way to change the on ice results is to change the on ice product. As I posted earlier, waive some dead weight and bring up some kids. Rookies will respect and follow any coach.

Look at the current group of forwards. The only 2 with any jump last night were Laughton and White, a rookie and a journeyman. The veterans, for the most part, need to go.
- BiggE

something that doesn't get talked about much. as you said the coach doesn't command respect and these players are set for life. who has the upper hand?