But why is there no fixing it without moving a core member? It's always easier to make good players play well again than it is to get good players on the team. Why not at least try to fix what there is now before doing something drastic like sending away a good player? A new coach woukd be the first thing to do to try to fix the team. Also Crosby isn't go anywhere unless he wants to so its not really worth talking about.
- Zac_O

I know it's not worth talking about, hence the reason why I don't see this team going anywhere for quite some time. How do you suggest the Penguins fix their play with the physically weak by current NHL standards roster?

Very odd hearing that Colorado would be looking to move Duschene and/or Barrie. I wonder if something like Malkin & Scuderi for Duschene & Barrie would work? Would be hard to move Malkin but in a way I think the Pens need to get younger and cheaper.
- MacPatty

Why move Malkin? He's the best core members of the team in recent years. It makes way more sense to trade Sid. But it doesn't matter because either of them would need to choose to leave and I doubt they'd want to go to a struggling team.

I always look at the NHL coaches more as motivators. This is not a game like football where you call individual plays. Like in the NBA, there aren't that many changes to make during an NHL game - double-team a guy, utilize the trap, play zone vs man-to-man type things. The execution has to be on the players, after all. Who is to say that this team has not been run by the Golden Boy all these years? Isn't it the case that no one wants to coach in Pitt?
- chimpira

While I agree that a coach needs to be a motivator, I don't agree that the coach can't make adjustments mid-game.

The real story behind Ruth's coaching search was they were only offering a 2 year contract and were forcing Tochett (owners buddy) on the new coach. Those other coaches wisely turned down that deal. Also, there were ton's of rumors about Babcock floating around.

As ugly as the Pens are playing now, that coaching transition was uglier.

I know it's not worth talking about, hence the reason why I don't see this team going anywhere for quite some time. How do you suggest the Penguins fix their physically weak by current NHL standards roster?
- chimpira

What do you mean physically weak? Not checking enough? That's not what is losing them games so they don't need to "fix" it. Lack of effort is losing them games. A coach with some balls unlike stone face Johnston could possibly make them play with effort again. The four scoring lines system works in the NHL. But only if the players are actually trying to score with all their effort. Teams with "grit" work to but that's not what this team is so why try changing now? It's far to late.

While I agree that a coach needs to be a motivator, I don't agree that the coach can't make adjustments mid-game.

The real story behind Ruth's coaching search was they were only offering a 2 year contract and were forcing Tochett (owners buddy) on the new coach. Those other coaches wisely turned down that deal. Also, there were ton's of rumors about Babcock floating around.

As ugly as the Pens are playing now, that coaching transition was uglier.
- madmike71

What adjustments can the coach make with this group? Bench Sid/Letang for a period or two? If the Defense doesn't know how to move the puck to the Forwards and any "pass" they make either bounces off the Forwards' stick or gets intercepted - what can the coach do about that?

I am freaking mad! think I enjoyed the late 90s/early 2000's play more than this. I'm not even from Pittsburgh. Saw Mario's first year and have been a huge Pens fan since, but this product out there now - I do not like at all.

What do you mean physically weak? Not checking enough? That's not what is losing them games so they don't need to "fix" it. Lack of effort is losing them games. A coach with some balls unlike stone face Johnston could possibly make them play with effort again. The four scoring lines system works in the NHL. But only if the players are actually trying to score with all their effort. Teams with "grit" work to but that's not what this team is so why try changing now? It's far to late.
- Zac_O

It's not the amount of checks, it's the quality of checks. My 5-year old son can lay out a check too, but he won't move me off the puck. That's what I mean.

While I agree that a coach needs to be a motivator, I don't agree that the coach can't make adjustments mid-game.

The real story behind Ruth's coaching search was they were only offering a 2 year contract and were forcing Tochett (owners buddy) on the new coach. Those other coaches wisely turned down that deal. Also, there were ton's of rumors about Babcock floating around.

As ugly as the Pens are playing now, that coaching transition was uglier.
- madmike71

I think the things might turn around after the Pens gets sold. New FO is needed. None of this "country club" mentality.

What do you mean physically weak? Not checking enough? That's not what is losing them games so they don't need to "fix" it. Lack of effort is losing them games. A coach with some balls unlike stone face Johnston could possibly make them play with effort again. The four scoring lines system works in the NHL. But only if the players are actually trying to score with all their effort. Teams with "grit" work to but that's not what this team is so why try changing now? It's far to late.
- Zac_O

Honestly, the 3rd and 4th lines aren't the problem. They should be better but they are at least treading water. It's when Crosby and/or Letang are on the ice. The team is getting killed. That's ~40% of the game and 22% of the Pens cap tied up in the worst 1C and 1D combo in the league right now. That needs to be fixed or the team is going nowhere.

Honestly, the 3rd and 4th lines aren't the problem. They should be better but they are at least treading water. It's when Crosby and/or Letang are on the ice. The team is getting killed. That ~40% of the game. 22% of the Pens cap tied up in the worst 1C and 1D combo in the league right now. That needs to be fixed or the team is going nowhere.
- jfkst1

Yes!

What do you mean physically weak? Not checking enough? That's not what is losing them games so they don't need to "fix" it. Lack of effort is losing them games. A coach with some balls unlike stone face Johnston could possibly make them play with effort again. The four scoring lines system works in the NHL. But only if the players are actually trying to score with all their effort. Teams with "grit" work to but that's not what this team is so why try changing now? It's far to late.
- Zac_O

Exactly. They're not losing the games because of physicality, they're losing because they're getting beaten to the puck all over the ice. They haven't out worked a single opponent.....(Maybe the Habs for two periods and TO but that's it).

If being small were a problem, the Habs would be struggling like us.

It's not the amount of checks, it's the quality of checks. My 5-year old son can lay out a check too, but he won't move me off the puck. That's what I mean.
- chimpira

But that's not what is losing them games. Yes have move checks the free the puck would help but that's something you fix after you fix the bad passes, lack of effort, and not playing the system the coach wants and somehow getting away with it.

Exactly. They're not losing the games because of physicality, they're losing because they're getting beaten to the puck all over the ice. They haven't out worked a single opponent.....(Maybe the Habs for two periods and TO but that's it).

If being small were a problem, the Habs would be struggling like us.
- madmike71

Ok, I think everyone is missing what I am trying to say. Look at our forecheck. I mean it exists, yes the guys throw their bodies from time to time. But those checks by Perron and Sid do no damage whatsoever.

Also, Sid with his signature move of getting into the zone, then looping right, and the backhanding a blind pass - it's in every other team's curriculum now. YAWN!

But that's not what is losing them games. Yes have move checks the free the puck would help but that's something you fix after you fix the bad passes, lack of effort, and not playing the system the coach wants and somehow getting away with it.
- Zac_O

What is your definition of "effort"?

Honestly, the 3rd and 4th lines aren't the problem. They should be better but they are at least treading water. It's when Crosby and/or Letang are on the ice. The team is getting killed. That's ~40% of the game and 22% of the Pens cap tied up in the worst 1C and 1D combo in the league right now. That needs to be fixed or the team is going nowhere.
- jfkst1

I agree. And the first thing to do to fix it is get a coach that will put them in there place so they either play the system and play better or ruin their own careers. If the choose the later the pens are f'ed this season. But its much more likley the first happens.

I agree. And the first thing to do to fix it is get a coach that will put them in there place so they either play the system and play better or ruin their own careers. If the choose the later the pens are f'ed this season. But its much more likley the first happens.
- Zac_O

Run the lazy bums out of town. At least Tanger seems to care when he gets frustrated and takes his standard bonehead penalties after the whistle in the scrums. While Sid - nothing. That crap he pulled against Fleischmann is what our "C" is mostly about.

What is your definition of "effort"?
- chimpira

The opposite of what Crosbys line has been doing along with malkins line once in a while. A total 180 from whatever the pp1 unit thinks it is. Do you need more? Because if you're about to argue the team does a full effort I'll have to stop talking to you so my head doesn't explode in anger.

Sorry, everyone. I am really mad right now.I know this team is "winning" and is 10-7. Maybe I should lay off and take a week or two off from watching them to see if they can regroup. Maybe after something good starts happening after the Turkey Day

Ok, I think everyone is missing what I am trying to say. Look at our forecheck. I mean it exists, yes the guys throw their bodies from time to time. But those checks by Perron and Sid do no damage whatsoever.

Also, Sid with his signature move of getting into the zone, then looping right, and the backhanding a blind pass - it's in every other team's curriculum now. YAWN!
- chimpira

I know what you're saying, I just don't think it's as big a problem as you do. Big hits are nice and fun to watch, but creating "damage" isn't the issue IMO. Beating teams to the puck is where this team is failing.

Yes, Sid is awful. Geno was just as awful the last couple games. Letang is beyond awful too. If those guys continue to suck they will be out of the playoffs by January.

Run the lazy bums out of town. At least Tanger seems to care when he gets frustrated and takes his standard bonehead penalties after the whistle in the scrums. While Sid - nothing. That crap he pulled against Fleischmann is what our "C" is mostly about.
- chimpira

Like I said its easier to make good players play better than get good players on the team. Youre skipping the step of trying to make it work. Youre going straight to blow up the team.

The opposite of what Crosbys line has been doing along with malkins line once in a while. A total 180 from whatever the pp1 unit thinks it is. Do you need more? Because if you're about to argue the team does a full effort I'll have to stop talking to you so my head doesn't explode in anger.
- Zac_O

That's my point - there is no effort. They physically don't have it. They can't go and get the pucks, they are weak on every battle for the puck. The D can't stop opposing forwards, the O can't separate opposing D from the puck. Besides Fehr, Cullen, and Horny - no one is physically capable of doing anything. No muscle.

Like I said its easier to make good players play better than get good players on the team. Youre skipping the step of trying to make it work. Youre going straight to blow up the team.
- Zac_O

The coach is always the move you do first. It's a no brainer. If things don't turn around soon, I don't think MJ see's December behind the bench.

Like I said its easier to make good players play better than get good players on the team. Youre skipping the step of trying to make it work. Youre going straight to blow up the team.
- Zac_O

I am not blowing up the entire team, I am blowing up the supposed "core". Maybe this is not the year to follow the Pens while they are being anchored by the contracts of Scuderi, Kunitz, and no matter how much I love him, Duper. But the top 3 guys need to be held accountable. They are not being held accountable. This is on FO/GM/Coach/Captain Golden Boy. Run them all out.

I miss Ian Moran, Marty Straka days

Ok. Seacrest out ... for now.

The coach is always the move you do first. It's a no brainer. If things don't turn around soon, I don't think MJ see's December behind the bench.
- madmike71

In my opinion for whatever it may be worth, there is plenty reason to fire him now. Bad lineup decisions and not making the team play his system. If he can't make them play their best he isn't doing his job. The problem is lack of good replacements.

The coach is always the move you do first. It's a no brainer. If things don't turn around soon, I don't think MJ see's December behind the bench.
- madmike71

100% right on.
The thing that bothers me most about this team is the puck movement/passing. Either the team is in a system they are incapable of succeeding in or they don't understand what is supposed to be happening.
Even teams with few talented individuals like TOR move the puck with far greater efficiency than the Pens.
This team can't move the puck at all unless someone like Malkin takes it from the d zone to the o zone. There's no excuse for that after 17 games.