If I were Hak, I'd force Simmer to play 1LW and just leave him there.

The pieces behind him fit so much better if that could work.
- Tomahawk

Simmonds struggles to play the puck well a lot of the time on his forehand, let alone his backhand. Moving him to LW did not work last season. He is what he is, a 27 year old right winger.

Funny thing is, Manning isn't even some draft pick you picked and developed and you're giving multiple chances to because pride and you just don't want to give up on a draft pick.

Manning was a FA signing by the organization. It's not like he was Sam Morin.
- johndewar

Maybe they don't want a repeat of the "If they only gave Gustafsson a chance..." rhetoric from the fan base.

They don't want a repeat of the "If they only gave Gustafsson a chance..." rhetoric from the fan base.
- jmatchett383

Maybe.

But Gus had enough decent games where requests of giving him a bigger bite was warranted.

Manning, not so much. He played well enough down the stretch last year to earn a contract this year, so maybe they see something we don't.

Maybe they don't want a repeat of the "If they only gave Gustafsson a chance..." rhetoric from the fan base.
- jmatchett383

still baffled how the great gus cant even fetch a 7th rd pick.

still baffled how the great gus cant even fetch a 7th rd pick.
- rinaldo

If only Buffalo would stop letting the great Jason Akeson rot in the AHL, they may be a contender this year.

Manning would struggle to put up 10 points in a full season, let alone score 10 in 31 games like Gus did in 13-14.

I think it was time to demote Raffl, but I would have tried these lines. I think the 3rd line from today's practice is worryingly small.

Gagner-Giroux-Voracek
Read-Couturier-BSchenn
Leier-Laughton-Simmonds
Raffl-Bellemare-VdV

Manning would struggle to put up 10 points in a full season, let alone score 10 in 31 games like Gus did in 13-14.
- Feanor

I agree. Although, I don't think Gus' offensive prowess impressed the team enough to mask his play on the other side of the puck. But, yeah, given the choice, I'd rather have bad defensive play with some offensive production as opposed to bad defensive play and no offensive production.

If only Buffalo would stop letting the great Jason Akeson rot in the AHL, they may be a contender this year.
- jmatchett383

funny he signed there with all there up and coming talent.

At this point, it doesn't appear that they think much of his game at all.
- Tomahawk

The real problem is that it isn't just Hakstol -- Berube didn't lose sleep over scratching him, either

I don't even know anymore. Manning is a 6/7 who should not be playing as much as he has. I don't even know what the hell to say when you are reportedly eating minutes at the AHL level, make $5 million per year, an NHL guy goes down for six weeks and you STILL don't get called up?

That pretty much means someone really doesn't like what you do

Manning would struggle to put up 10 points in a full season, let alone score 10 in 31 games like Gus did in 13-14.

I think it was time to demote Raffl, but I would have tried these lines. I think the 3rd line from today's practice is worryingly small.

Gagner-Giroux-Voracek
Read-Couturier-BSchenn
Leier-Laughton-Simmonds
Raffl-Bellemare-VdV
- Feanor

I like those lines. I think Schenn needs to be put back on the right side with Coots and Raffl can drive possession with just about anyone. Also, I'm sure Leier and Laughton have some chemistry from the past and Simmonds could provide that size you were talking about.

I actually Manning looked good with gostisbhrere. Seemed more confident and aggressive. I still hate Simmonds with couturier. Would rather have Gagner or schenn.

The real problem is that it isn't just Hakstol -- Berube didn't lose sleep over scratching him, either

I don't even know anymore. Manning is a 6/7 who should not be playing as much as he has. I don't even know what the hell to say when you are reportedly eating minutes at the AHL level, make $5 million per year, an NHL guy goes down for six weeks and you STILL don't get called up?

That pretty much means someone really doesn't like what you do
- AllInForFlyers

Yeah, I never thought much of him as a player, but even I never imagined he could be this deep in the doghouse.

Manning... aggressive.
- J35Bacher

Think that's pretty much the reason why he's in there vs AMac. He's more aggressive at challenging at both bluelines, and Hak's system is predicated on winning the NZ.

Off-topic but still related to defensemen:

I think most people agree that, omitting Jim Vandermeer, Bobby Orr is the best defenseman of all time.

But after that, who comes next? To me, it's between Ray Bourque and Nicklas Lidstrom. Lidstrom basically owned the Norris for 8 years, and Bourque won it 5 times across 2 decades with some of the best defensemen ever (Leetch, Coffey, Chelios, MacInnis) to contend with.

I think cases can be made for Potvin and Coffey, and I doubt most (if any) of us can give an accurate depiction of guys like Eddie Shore or Doug Harvey. But I think it comes down to Bourque or Lidstrom, with an edge to Bourque. Thoughts?

Think that's pretty much the reason why he's in there vs AMac. He's more aggressive at challenging at both bluelines, and Hak's system is predicated on winning the NZ.
- Tomahawk

Saying AMac doesn't challenge at the defensive blueline is quite the understatement.

Yeah, I never thought much of him as a player, but even I never imagined he could be this deep in the doghouse.


- Tomahawk

He certainly doesn't seem to be mailing it in in Allentown. Put up almost as many points as Ghost, +6, playing a lot of minutes and (based on Saturday's game) is a lot more feisty on the ice than he ever was as a Flyer. Maybe all the "NHL reject" chirping he must be hearing from other teams has got under his skin.

If Hextall never calls him up this season then surely he has to be ready to buy him out in June. Burying $4m in the minors till the end of the decade would be absurd.

Think that's pretty much the reason why he's in there vs AMac. He's more aggressive at challenging at both bluelines, and Hak's system is predicated on winning the NZ.
- Tomahawk

And I get that, and it makes sense except for the fact that Manning just shouldn't be playing this many games -- man, I always said MacDonald was a third-pair guy, but come on. He does everything else better than Manning, and while I understand it's shortest midget, yeah, I do want them to ice the best lineup and win hockey games

It's gotten to the point where it's crazy. MacDonald isn't good. Manning is worse than that.

He certainly doesn't seem to be mailing it in in Allentown. Put up almost as many points as Ghost, +6, playing a lot of minutes and (based on Saturday's game) is a lot more feisty on the ice than he ever was as a Flyer. Maybe all the "NHL reject" chirping he must be hearing from other teams has got under his skin.

If Hextall never calls him up this season then surely he has to be ready to buy him out in June. Burying $4m in the minors till the end of the decade would be absurd.
- Feanor

Probably not the case, but do you think Hextall is putting the "have fun riding the bus" pressure on him in hopes of the much-bandied-about mutual termination, but with AMac instead of VLC?

Off-topic but still related to defensemen:

I think most people agree that, omitting Jim Vandermeer, Bobby Orr is the best defenseman of all time.

But after that, who comes next? To me, it's between Ray Bourque and Nicklas Lidstrom. Lidstrom basically owned the Norris for 8 years, and Bourque won it 5 times across 2 decades with some of the best defensemen ever (Leetch, Coffey, Chelios, MacInnis) to contend with.

I think cases can be made for Potvin and Coffey, and I doubt most (if any) of us can give an accurate depiction of guys like Eddie Shore or Doug Harvey. But I think it comes down to Bourque or Lidstrom, with an edge to Bourque. Thoughts?
- jmatchett383

Larry Robinson should be in the discussion. Coffey does not belong in the discussion, except if offense alone is considered. Mark Howe was a very similar player to Lidström, but got a late start playing D and a bad back limited him the rest of his career after 1986-87.

And I get that, and it makes sense except for the fact that Manning just shouldn't be playing this many games -- man, I always said MacDonald was a third-pair guy, but come on. He does everything else better than Manning, and while I understand it's shortest midget, yeah, I do want them to ice the best lineup and win hockey games

It's gotten to the point where it's crazy. MacDonald isn't good. Manning is worse than that.
- AllInForFlyers

Hell, I'll challenge at both blue lines. I'll get beaten every time, but I'll do it. At some point, talent has to come into play, and AMac is flat-out more talented.

I actually Manning looked good with gostisbhrere. Seemed more confident and aggressive. I still hate Simmonds with couturier. Would rather have Gagner or schenn.
- J35Bacher

I see the potential in Manning. He has just made a ton of mistakes so far and has not looked good overall. He has had some moments though where I can see it.

They are giving him a chance, so be it.

Larry Robinson should be in the discussion. Coffey does not belong in the discussion, except if offense alone is considered. Mark Howe was a very similar player to Lidström, but got a late start playing D and a bad back limited him the rest of his career after 1986-87.
- bmeltzer

Crap, forgot to include Robinson. My bad. Also meant to include the caveat about Coffey.

Saying AMac doesn't challenge at the defensive blueline is quite the understatement.
- jmatchett383

Not challenging at the blueline is why MacDonald conceded the most shot attempts per minute on the Flyers defense last season.

http://stats.hockeyanalys...orsi&sort=A60&sortdir=ASC

Oh wait, he actually conceded the third fewest. But why let facts get in the way of an established narrative?

Probably not the case, but do you think Hextall is putting the "have fun riding the bus" pressure on him in hopes of the much-bandied-about mutual termination, but with AMac instead of VLC?
- jmatchett383

No chance. MacDonald is still owed about $23m.

Not challenging at the blueline is why MacDonald conceded the most shot attempts per minute on the Flyers defense last season.

http://stats.hockeyanalys...orsi&sort=A60&sortdir=ASC

Oh wait, he actually conceded the third fewest. But why let facts get in the way of an established narrative?
- Feanor

Does this chart establish that Carlo Coliacovo and Bradon Manning were the best Flyers' defensemen (defensively) last year?