No chance. MacDonald is still owed about $23m.
- Feanor

That's why I said probably not the case, but I thought something along the lines of what LA did with Richards could maybe be worked out. But that seemed like outright cap circumvention.

Larry Robinson should be in the discussion. Coffey does not belong in the discussion, except if offense alone is considered. Mark Howe was a very similar player to Lidström, but got a late start playing D and a bad back limited him the rest of his career after 1986-87.
- bmeltzer

thought on rod langway? not the best but always liked him.

Does this chart establishe that Carlo Coliacovo and Bradon Manning were the best Flyers' defensemen (defensively) last year?
- jmatchett383

It establishes that they gave up the fewest shot attempts per minute in their limited playing time.

The real question is, if MacDonald is uniquely bad at giving up the blueline and allowing other teams to enter the offensive zone easily, why was that not reflected in the amount of shot attempts conceded by the Flyers when he was on the ice in 14-15?

No chance. MacDonald is still owed about $23m.
- Feanor

And at this point in time, he should be playing and getting a chance to earn some of that salary in the NHL.

Streit's out six weeks. Should be Manning waived, Ghost and MacDonald called up, someone figure out what the hell is up with Medvedev, and let's try to win hockey games

It establishes they gave up the fewest shot attempts per minute in their limited playing time.

The real question is, if MacDonald is uniquely bad at giving up the blueline and allowing other teams to enter the offensive zone easily, why was that not reflected in the amount of shot attempts conceded by the Flyers when he was on the ice in 14-15?
- Feanor

So yes, they were the 2 best Flyers' defenseman at limiting shots on goal. Okay, just want to make sure that the chart was showing and make sure that was accurate.

As for the second half, no clue. I guess I need to get my glasses fixed as does the majority of the fan base.

And at this point in time, he should be playing and getting a chance to earn some of that salary in the NHL.

Streit's out six weeks. Should be Manning waived, Ghost and MacDonald called up, someone figure out what the hell is up with Medvedev, and let's try to win hockey games
- AllInForFlyers

Has Drewiske been returned? If not, he should be, since they decided to sign him for some reason.

And I get that, and it makes sense except for the fact that Manning just shouldn't be playing this many games -- man, I always said MacDonald was a third-pair guy, but come on. He does everything else better than Manning, and while I understand it's shortest midget, yeah, I do want them to ice the best lineup and win hockey games

It's gotten to the point where it's crazy. MacDonald isn't good. Manning is worse than that.
- AllInForFlyers

AMac is better w/ the puck, but he plays a super-conservative game at both ends. Manning isn't good with the puck, and is a detriment in his own-zone right now, but he's a lot better than AMac on entries and defending his own blueline.

You're basically screwed either way. Both guys are gonna get trampled by better comp, just in different ways. I guess the hope is that Manning has a bit more headroom to improve overall.

I'm no coach, but it seems like it would be easier to get an NHL dman to play less conservatively, than to improve the pucks skills and defensive compsure of a 25 year old AHL player.

And at this point in time, he should be playing and getting a chance to earn some of that salary in the NHL.

Streit's out six weeks. Should be Manning waived, Ghost and MacDonald called up, someone figure out what the hell is up with Medvedev, and let's try to win hockey games
- AllInForFlyers

I think that keeping MacDonald in the AHL, healthy scratching Medvedev and BSchenn, and putting Raffl on the top PP unit for most of this season shows that the management are more concerned with sending messages and showing who's the boss than with winning games right now. I hope that tough guy attitude pays off down the road, because it hasn't made the start of this season much fun to watch.

The real question is, if MacDonald is uniquely bad at giving up the blueline and allowing other teams to enter the offensive zone easily, why was that not reflected in the amount of shot attempts conceded by the Flyers when he was on the ice in 14-15?
- Feanor

We covered this already over the summer: easier minutes.

If only Buffalo would stop letting the great Jason Akeson rot in the AHL, they may be a contender this year.
- jmatchett383

#FreeArtRossAkeson

We covered this already over the summer: easier minutes.
- Tomahawk

MacDonald, Schenn, Streit and Grossmann all had similar usage in terms of zone starts and QoC. And they all conceded more shot attempts per minute than MacDonald.

http://www.behindthenet.c...+30+32+33+34+45+46+63+67#

I'm no coach, but it seems like it would be easier to get an NHL dman to play less conservatively, than to improve the pucks skills and defensive compsure of a 25 year old AHL player.



I think that keeping MacDonald in the AHL, healthy scratching Medvedev and BSchenn, and putting Raffl on the top PP unit for most of this season shows that the management are more concerned with sending messages and showing who's the boss than with winning games right now. I hope that tough guy attitude pays off down the road, because it hasn't made the start of this season much fun to watch.
- Feanor

we all know Homer is the boss

I think that keeping MacDonald in the AHL, healthy scratching Medvedev and BSchenn, and putting Raffl on the top PP unit for most of this season shows that the management are more concerned with sending messages and showing who's the boss than with winning games right now. I hope that tough guy attitude pays off down the road, because it hasn't made the start of this season much fun to watch.
- Feanor

Ding ding ding

That's the part where I always split off. They just got done losing eight of nine in some of the most horrific looking ways I have seen, to the degree where I didn't even post for days

I understand limitations, giving guys chances. I supported giving Manning a legitimate chance, and still do -- he can play games. I honestly mean that.

But come on. You cannot get smacked around the way they were and make the Schenns the whipping boys, Gagner and Wheels No 13/14, when even a blind man can see that MacDonald can help you more with Streit out than Manning, especially if Medvedev can't go

I mean, seriously. Are they really gonna play Manning, Gudas and Schenn in the same lineup repeatedly? Who does that?

MacDonald, Schenn, Streit and Grossmann all had similar usage in terms of zone starts and QoC. And they all conceded more shot attempts per minute than MacDonald.
- Feanor

Visual depiction of 14-15 usage and results:

http://war-on-ice.com/pla...2015-11-16&splitseasons=1

Only Schenn's usage was comparable, and he out-performed AMac in differential.

Or perhaps my theory has some merit: he got his big contract and he doesn't have the same committment to blocking shots and other aspects of the game anymore. At his best, he's a 4/5, so take away playing for a contract and.......??
- BiggE

Bill has written many times about how Mason would rather have his defenseman give him a clear line of sight, rather that try and block a shot and have it get through or deflect it. I think that's part of it. I think the bigger possibility is that some players have a tough time handling the pressure and expectations that come with signing a big contract.

MacDonald, Schenn, Streit and Grossmann all had similar usage in terms of zone starts and QoC. And they all conceded more shot attempts per minute than MacDonald.

http://www.behindthenet.c...+30+32+33+34+45+46+63+67#
- Feanor

MacDonald is probably a better option than Manning at this point, but he's still no better than a 3rd pairing defenseman on his best days. His numbers showed that he was just OK when given 3rd pairing usage. Manning's are terrible despite 3rd pairing usage.

Also, why are you only referring to CA? Guys like MDZ, Streit and Schenn gave up more shots against, but they also generated significantly more offense. If you use relativity, MacDonald only beats the now departed Grossmann and Schultz who had incredibly difficult usage.

Think that's pretty much the reason why he's in there vs AMac. He's more aggressive at challenging at both bluelines, and Hak's system is predicated on winning the NZ.
- Tomahawk

Manning isn't remotely better at anything compared to MacDonald. MacDonald is a better player than 3, or possibly 4 of the current Flyers defenseman. His demotion was about the cap, and wanting to give Manning an extended look.

Ding ding ding

That's the part where I always split off. They just got done losing eight of nine in some of the most horrific looking ways I have seen, to the degree where I didn't even post for days

I understand limitations, giving guys chances. I supported giving Manning a legitimate chance, and still do -- he can play games. I honestly mean that.

But come on. You cannot get smacked around the way they were and make the Schenns the whipping boys, Gagner and Wheels No 13/14, when even a blind man can see that MacDonald can help you more with Streit out than Manning, especially if Medvedev can't go

I mean, seriously. Are they really gonna play Manning, Gudas and Schenn in the same lineup repeatedly? Who does that?
- AllInForFlyers

A team and management who are tanking under the radar ?

Manning isn't remotely better at anything compared to MacDonald. MacDonald is a better player than 3, or possibly 4 of the current Flyers defenseman. His demotion was about the cap, and wanting to give Manning an extended look.
- MJL

I don't know about that. Macdonald doesn't really do anything great. He is pretty much average across the board. I think they know that and in this type of season there is no harm in seeing Manning play. If he can be a 6_7 defenseman for cheap then money can be allocated to fix other needs.

I don't know about that. Macdonald doesn't really do anything great. He is pretty much average across the board. I think they know that and in this type of season there is no harm in seeing Manning play. If he can be a 6_7 defenseman for cheap then money can be allocated to fix other needs.
- J35Bacher

That hinges on removing MacDonald, though. Keeping Manning up and burying MacDonald doesn't leave significant cap dollars to be reallocated.

I can't let the coach and GM act surprised the team is 29th in the league in goals per game when they have given 69 precious OZ starts to an AHL plug who couldn't score in a whore house.

http://stats.hockeyanalys...si&sort=OZFO&sortdir=DESC

And at this point in time, he should be playing and getting a chance to earn some of that salary in the NHL.

Streit's out six weeks. Should be Manning waived, Ghost and MacDonald called up, someone figure out what the hell is up with Medvedev, and let's try to win hockey games
- AllInForFlyers

That hinges on removing MacDonald, though. Keeping Manning up and burying MacDonald doesn't leave significant cap dollars to be reallocated.
- BulliesPhan87

I know. But what does playing Manning in the AHL all season do? They know what he is in the AHL. They need to see what he is in the NHL. It was always the flyers fault for not giving akeson a so called chance. But now they are giving Manning minutes and that is wrong too. Also if McDonald was some kind of player don't you think a team would have grabbed him off waivers. Yes his contract is bad but so many teams are looking for dmen.

I know. But what does playing Manning in the AHL all season do? They know what he is in the AHL. They need to see what he is in the NHL. It was always the flyers fault for not giving akeson a so called chance. But now they are giving Manning minutes and that is wrong too. Also if McDonald was some kind of player don't you think a team would have grabbed him off waivers. Yes his contract is bad but so many teams are looking for dmen.
- J35Bacher

I didn't have the highest of hopes for Akeson, so I don't feel out of line for wanting to pull the plug on the Manning project. As for the latter, I'll give you that he's obviously not a top flight defenseman. That said, most NHL teams profess to have very little wiggle room, either with the cap or with actual dollars. That they couldn't open up five mil for MacDonald overnight isn't the biggest indictment.

- -davies-

Always knew you were asian