this (frank)in' place, i swear....
- hammarby31

this (frank)in' place, i swear....
- hammarby31

explain yourself now

this (frank)in' place, i swear....
- hammarby31

Its like insanity on steroids

most ppl think he's good but when you win one playoff series and miss the playoffs two times in 4 years, the pitchforks and torches are coming out.
- JoeRussomanno

Any logical hockey fan can see he is better than good or know that it takes more than 1 player to win a playoff series or even get in the playoffs.

Somehow thinking Giroux is part of the reason they didnt make the playoffs or win series when he is a PPG player in the playoffs and leads or in the case of last year was second on the team in scoring is insane to me.

see that's the problem you take it like i have an axe to grind. I don't but i'm not gonna act like the guy is above all criticism. Personally No I don't see him as elite, very good but not elite in my book. Reason being he needs to be able to line up against and be able to beat anybody they send out there against him. He couldn't do it against new jersey a few years ago the playoffs and was stymied for most of the series against new york. Ok he played against girardi etc... but at some point you gotta beat the guys they send at you he can't.
- JoeRussomanno

I don't think you have anything against the guy, I just think criticizing Giroux for the product the Flyers have turned out the past few years is downright stupid. There is not a single player in the NHL that can produce no matter who is against him on a nightly basis. He may not be "elite" in even strength scoring, but in most aspects of his game he is the very definition of elite. Size was always his biggest weakness and he has become who he is in spite of that all.

Not only did he have surgery on both wrists after the NJ series you speak of, but it is also pretty easy for teams to completely shutdown one guy of their choosing in a playoff series. Thats why the best TEAMS win and not the teams with the best PLAYERS

Any logical hockey fan can see he is better than good or know that it takes more than 1 player to win a playoff series or even get in the playoffs.

Somehow thinking Giroux is part of the reason they didnt make the playoffs or win series when he is a PPG player in the playoffs and leads or in the case of last year was second on the team in scoring is insane to me.
- opeth_pa

You're expecting logical fans? Here? At hockeybuzz??

We need to talk. I've got this bridge up in Brooklyn that I really need to unload. I can sell it to ya cheap.

Venerable Michigan head coach Red Berenson...LOL, I thought he retired years ago!

- BiggE

I'm sorry allow me to prostate myself before the alter of elite better than everyone else all knowing flyer fans because i am ok with ppl criticising the face of a franchise who makes 8 million a year on team that can't make the playoffs, with solid goaltending and teams that are better on paper than several flyer teams that have made the playoffs. Glad you guys are satisfied with perpetual mediocrity.
- JoeRussomanno

I will say this... the offense this season is pathetic. By far the biggest surprise to me is this.

explain yourself now
- 2Real

don't tell me what to do.

I will say this... the offense this season is pathetic. By far the biggest surprise to me is this.
- mayorofangrytown

I agree, and I have been trying to decide why it is (besides terrible S% for some). I have noticed they arent dumping as much. One theory is that Hakstol first focused on the defensive accountability. Get that down and work from there. Or did Hakstol learn and adjust and ask for something else from his team? I doubt they will suddenly start scoring 5 a game, but there has been a noticeable difference in the product on the ice even before this 3 game winning streak

I will say this... the offense this season is pathetic. By far the biggest surprise to me is this.
- mayorofangrytown

It's not surprising to me...

1. Prior to Ghost no offensive catalyst on back end though Streit did produce it was more in a supplementary way.

2. Other than Giroux and Voracek you have no high end offensive talent. Shut them down and this team is easy to defend against.

3. The offense being good is dependent on Couturier, Simmonds, Read and Schenn showing growth and it now 20 games in that is starting to happen.

Any logical hockey fan can see he is better than good or know that it takes more than 1 player to win a playoff series or even get in the playoffs.

Somehow thinking Giroux is part of the reason they didnt make the playoffs or win series when he is a PPG player in the playoffs and leads or in the case of last year was second on the team in scoring is insane to me.
- opeth_pa

Any pom pom shaker can see he is better than good or know that it takes more than 1 player to win a playoff series or even get in the playoffs.

Somehow thinking Giroux is part of the reason they didnt make the playoffs or win series when he is a PPG player in the playoffs and leads or in the case of last year was second on the team in scoring is insane to me.
- opeth_pa

ftfy

I don't think you have anything against the guy, I just think criticizing Giroux for the product the Flyers have turned out the past few years is downright stupid. There is not a single player in the NHL that can produce no matter who is against him on a nightly basis. He may not be "elite" in even strength scoring, but in most aspects of his game he is the very definition of elite. Size was always his biggest weakness and he has become who he is in spite of that all.

Not only did he have surgery on both wrists after the NJ series you speak of, but it is also pretty easy for teams to completely shutdown one guy of their choosing in a playoff series. Thats why the best TEAMS win and not the teams with the best PLAYERS
- YuenglingJagr

even strength play is most of the game if he's not elite in that how can he be considered elite?

I agree, and I have been trying to decide why it is (besides terrible S% for some). I have noticed they arent dumping as much. One theory is that Hakstol first focused on the defensive accountability. Get that down and work from there. Or did Hakstol learn and adjust and ask for something else from his team? I doubt they will suddenly start scoring 5 a game, but there has been a noticeable difference in the product on the ice even before this 3 game winning streak
- YuenglingJagr

You know, at the beginning of the season I though they were dumping the puck more than they needed to. They were retrieving the puck pretty well but couldn't contain it. They always seemed to miss on the outlet coverage. Now they're carrying it more like they did last season.

At first I blamed it on the PP but it's deeper than that. They aren't getting scoring from any part of the lineup on a consistent basis. I haven't watched enough of their games lately to have an up to date opinion. I've just been catching portions of games and highlights.

I'd like to think Gostisbehere has helped bring some fun back into the offense but that's just my bias and like I said, in the last two weeks Ive only seen bits.

I don't think you have anything against the guy, I just think criticizing Giroux for the product the Flyers have turned out the past few years is downright stupid. There is not a single player in the NHL that can produce no matter who is against him on a nightly basis. He may not be "elite" in even strength scoring, but in most aspects of his game he is the very definition of elite. Size was always his biggest weakness and he has become who he is in spite of that all.

Not only did he have surgery on both wrists after the NJ series you speak of, but it is also pretty easy for teams to completely shutdown one guy of their choosing in a playoff series. Thats why the best TEAMS win and not the teams with the best PLAYERS
- YuenglingJagr

I'm not laying it all his feet but i can throw almost any name out there and most likely Someone will have to swoop in amd defend that player(s) honor. No it's not all his fault, sure I think they can win with him, but if it were up to me He's the 2c and not fave of the franchise. That doesn't mean he sucks either. ... I swear these conversations are like flashbacks to me telling ppl the phillies were better off without bobby abreu

I will say this... the offense this season is pathetic. By far the biggest surprise to me is this.
- mayorofangrytown

the biggest problem with this season from a roster standpoint has probably been streit and schultz as your top pairing... that's scary to think of.

the biggest problem with this season from a roster standpoint has probably been streit and schultz as your top pairing... that's scary to think of.
- JoeRussomanno

I expected that. When they didn't make room for any of the prospects It was going to be a continued poop show back there. That wasn't a surprise.

What's even scarier is if Streit and Schultz are your top pairing... what's behind that?

even strength play is most of the game if he's not elite in that how can he be considered elite?
- 2Real

Because even strength scoring is not the only part of the game, and teams are able to match up to shut his line down at ES knowing the flyers dont have much else and that is the part that I really struggle to see how it isn't obvious

You know, at the beginning of the season I though they were dumping the puck more than they needed to. They were retrieving the puck pretty well but couldn't contain it. They always seemed to miss on the outlet coverage. Now they're carrying it more like they did last season.

At first I blamed it on the PP but it's deeper than that. They aren't getting scoring from any part of the lineup on a consistent basis. I haven't watched enough of their games lately to have an up to date opinion. I've just been catching portions of games and highlights.

I'd like to think Gostisbehere has helped bring some fun back into the offense but that's just my bias and like I said, in the last two weeks Ive only seen bits.
- mayorofangrytown

Ghost has definitely added a fun element that was missing.

I noticed the dumping the puck as well and it drove me nuts. It happens much less now

I expected that. When they didn't make room for any of the prospects It was going to be a continued poop show back there. That wasn't a surprise.

What's even scarier is if Streit and Schultz are your top pairing... what's behind that?
- mayorofangrytown

medvedev was a big question mark but i think it's safe to safe he could probably do better than schultz on the top pair... ffs

Because even strength scoring is not the only part of the game, and teams are able to match up to shut his line down at ES knowing the flyers dont have much else and that is the part that I really struggle to see how it isn't obvious
- YuenglingJagr

go back to 1974 amd tell bob clarke he can't be out there scoring goals with bobby orr on the ice

Because even strength scoring is not the only part of the game, and teams are able to match up to shut his line down at ES knowing the flyers dont have much else and that is the part that I really struggle to see how it isn't obvious
- YuenglingJagr

I'm not going to wade in and tell you your opinion is wrong but what you're saying here is true of every elite player in the NHL. They manage to over come the match ups, they find a way to put up dominate performances even in the playoffs against the best of teams.

I do find that to be Giroux's weakness. I don't think it's something he can't do but it's certainly something he doesn't do on any kind of a consistent basis.

And I love the player. If he was on another team though and was never a Flyer I wouldn't pay to see him as a fan. Of course I won't pay to see this team right now and feel bad for the people who are and can't enjoy it.

I'm not going to wade in and tell you your opinion is wrong but what you're saying here is true of every elite player in the NHL. They manage to over come the match ups, they find a way to put up dominate performances even in the playoffs against the best of teams.

I do find that to be Giroux's weakness. I don't think it's something he can't do but it's certainly something he doesn't do on any kind of a consistent basis.

And I love the player. If he was on another team though and was never a Flyer I wouldn't pay to see him as a fan.
- mayorofangrytown

that's all I'm saying really

ok i've been in an eagles-induced philly sports coma for the last 6 weeks and just read that sam gagner is recovering from facial lacerations and head injury. what happened to him?