I'm not sure what's left to debate? He's playing where the Flyers think he should be playing . Had he played better he would be in Philly....frankly I wish he had lived up to the billing, because the Flyers would be better for it.
- landros 2

We can apply that to a lot of topics. What's left to debate about the Lecavalier situation? Yet, we do it time and again, and probably will debate it more.

It's the waiver situation that is the biggest reason, as I described in a recent post, and when looking at the situation that other players are in. There is also the fact that MacDonald did not live up to the 5M a year contract last season, and probably never will be able to do so, so the money is a factor.
- MJL

I'm not sure about the waiver situation - you mean the Flyers hope he gets claimed, or that they are really trying to protect Manning?

Sure, money is always a factor. But the Flyers, a cap team who are almost always in it to win it, would have no problem paying him if his performance was better, and they certainly wouldn't mind having him locked up for 5 years if he was getting it done on the ice. Apparently he's not, although why he hasn't been given a real chance this season is baffling considering the situation.

Coutersy of Appleyard:

Some Brandon Manning stats:

35.50 SA/60 (2nd worst amongst NHL D) (200+ mins at EV, ~190 Dmen)
42.86 SF% (8th worst amongst NHL D) (200+ mins at EV, ~190 Dmen)

He has got the easiest minutes on our teams defense.
- Feanor

He's not a NHL dman.

We can apply that to a lot of topics. What's left to debate about the Lecavalier situation? Yet, we do it time and again, and I probably will debate it more.
- MJL

You're relentless

I live in America. My opinion doesn't need to be objective. My goal is to kill time & talk pucks. This isn't a (frank)ing diversity retreat with my co workers
- Jsaquella

We can talk about MacDonald until we're blue in the face if that's what you want. He's not that great though and you're going to have a very hard time convincing anyone here otherwise.
- Mordecai

I couldn't care less about convincing anyone of anything. Not my intention. My only intention is if there is going to be a discussion on MacDonald, is to offer my opinion. I don't think anyone, myself included would use the adjective great to describe MacDonald as a player.

Stats courtesy of @avppleyard:

Some Brandon Manning stats:

35.50 SA/60 (2nd worst amongst NHL D) (200+ mins at EV, ~190 Dmen)
42.86 SF% (8th worst amongst NHL D) (200+ mins at EV, ~190 Dmen)

He has got the easiest minutes on our teams defense.
- Feanor

So your saying there's a chance...

- Mononoke

HomerNinja.

I'm not sure about the waiver situation - you mean the Flyers hope he gets claimed, or that they are really trying to protect Manning?

Sure, money is always a factor. But the Flyers, a cap team who are almost always in it to win it, would have no problem paying him if his performance was better, and they certainly wouldn't mind having him locked up for 5 years if he was getting it done on the ice. Apparently he's not, although why he hasn't been given a real chance this season is baffling considering the situation.
- wolfhounds

Paying him is not a factor, they're paying him the same salary whether he plays for the Flyers or in the AHL. It's a combination of two things. He can safely pass through waivers without getting claimed, while the other defenseman cannot. Secondly, he did not play so well last season that the Flyers feel they can't be without him on the team.

Yes.....I was never a fan...tons of potential, but I had hoped he would have developed more.
I remember thinking there had to be more to the deal....it couldn't be straight up....but it was what it was....
- landros 2

So why don't the Flyers admit the mistake and waive Schenn?

We can apply that to a lot of topics. What's left to debate about the Lecavalier situation? Yet, we do it time and again, and probably will debate it more.
- MJL

No...you assured me Lecavalier's issues were due to a bad back and when he got healthy we would see a guy that was on "pace" to score 32 goals or some crap.

Another guy I wish played to his billing.....because once again the Flyers would be better for it.

I couldn't care less about convincing anyone of anything. Not my intention. My only intention is if there is going to be a discussion on MacDonald, is to offer my opinion. I don't think anyone, myself included would use the adjective great to describe MacDonald as a player.
- MJL

Stop being reasonable I want to hate you with the fury of 1000 suns. How dare you take that away from me.

Gudas is clearly better... his big mistakes/penalties stick in the mind, but overall, the Flyers have been much better overall with him on the ice than Amac, Grossmann, Schultz, etc. It seems like he's got attackers worrying about him when he's out there -- nobody ever worried about those other guys. His puck-moving ability is way underrated, too.

Luke is also better.

Schultz, Manning, Amac... if any of them are better than the others, it's debatable. What's not debatable is that the Flyers obviously don't think much of AMac anymore.
- Tomahawk

Gudas is better.

But I don't think Schenn is. Luke's possession numbers went in the toilet as soon as he moved up the lineup and faced tougher opponents.

Manning definitely isn't. If MacDonald was putting up his stats there would be articles every week from the analytic community laughing about how terrible he is. But no one outside of Philly cares about how Manning is allowing an insane number of shots in very easy minutes.

to be fair he didn't really show anything in the one game he played to warrant sticking around. He was about the same as always. Couple decent plays, couple pretty bad plays.
- Mordecai

I thought he was very solid, and really didn't make any glaring mistakes.

No...you assured me Lecavalier's issues were due to a bad back and when he got healthy we would see a guy that was on "pace" to score 32 goals or some crap.

Another guy I wish played to his billing.....because once again the Flyers would be better for it.
- landros 2

See I was right in the post you're replying to. We will again discuss Lecavalier. Lecavalier has never been the same since the back injury. That has accelerated his decline.

Very solid compared to what though?
- Mordecai

Not compared to anything. Looking at his play as an individual. He played a solid game.

So why don't the Flyers admit the mistake and waive Schenn?
- MJL

Because even though it hasn't worked out he's still in the top 6..(unlike Macdonald).. Just because you got fleeced on a deal doesn't mean you throw a guy away. He simply isn't as good as we all hoped he would be.

See I was right in the post you're replying to. We will again discuss Lecavalier. Lecavalier has never been the same since the back injury. That has accelerated his decline.
- MJL

Convenient.

Because even though it hasn't worked out he's still in the top 6..(unlike Macdonald).. Just because you got fleeced on a deal doesn't mean you throw a guy away. He simply isn't as good as we all hoped he would be.
- landros 2

You said you were glad the Flyers admitted a mistake with MacDonald and rectified it. I then asked you if Schenn was a mistake, and you said yes. So either you have the same standard or you don't.

There's a 5 page conversation about MacDonald...saying somebody is infringing on anyone's ability to beat MacDonald to death is like Billy O'Reilly saying there's a war on Christmas at the Macy's Thanksgiving parade

You said you were glad the Flyers admitted a mistake with MacDonald and rectified it. I then asked you if Schenn was a mistake, and you said yes. So either you have the same standard or you don't.
- MJL

Ah no.

One mistake is still NHL caliber in the eyes of the Flyers and one mistake is AHL caliber in the eyes of the Flyers....

Ah no.

One mistake is still NHL caliber in the eyes of the Flyers and one mistake is AHL caliber in the eyes of the Flyers....
- landros 2

Ah, that's actually wrong in my opinion. MacDonald has not been waived and demoted because he's an AHL caliber defenseman. MacDonald is absolutely an NHL caliber defenseman.

I agree, and objectively, they probably won't be a for a few years. That's a general statement that is wide ranging. There are certainly many subsets if you will to discuss about the team, such as did they player well this game, did this player play well in this game, etc.
- MJL

They could be an awesome team tomorrow

They could be an awesome team tomorrow
- JoeRussomanno

At practice?

I live in America. My opinion doesn't need to be objective. My goal is to kill time & talk pucks. This isn't a (frank)ing diversity retreat with my co workers
- Jsaquella

I thought this was church... I swear to god (donnie baker voice)