For as long as i can remember, the organization has never drafted a quality number one defenseman, as in a Norris caliber guy. This is a huge issue for the club!
- LeftCoaster

If you were to make an "all-time" roster for the Canucks the D-core has always been suspect. They have had some really good players, but never the #1 stud guy.

Guys like Jovonavski, Ohlund, Lumme ect. All very good players but not on the same level as Bourque, Pronger, Lidstrom, Keith, etc.

I agree. I want to see a fire sale at the deadline when prices are at their highest and continue to draft a develop. I hope Benning really starts focusing on the D core. The Sedins are still carrying the load and can hopefully do so for the next year or 2. With the amount of forward and goal tending prospects they are looking okay for the future there. The D is what concerns me the most going forward.
- fiveandagame

I think that it's going to be more like a bankruptcy auction than a firesale. Even without taking trade protection into account, and with a few exceptions, teams don't want what we have to sell. If most of the veterans can easily be replaced by cheaper AHL players, and it's hard to argue that they can't, other teams are more likely to go that route.

Edit: You can't blame Willie & Benning for both Nonis & Gillis trading away draft picks year after year after year.
- Marwood

And you can't blame Nonis &Gillis for Benning & Willie trading away draft picks, bringing in ineffective players and selling off assets for pennies.

This team is pretty bad right now but to lay that squarely at the previous mgmt is false.
It would be one thing if the current mgmt had said we are rebuilding and taken steps to facilitate that, instead we saw this group try to take short cuts which haven't shown much success yet either.

I still think we see this team improve from where they are now but the problems go deeper than Higgins which includes some of the guys brought in from this regime.

Players like Higgins and Burrows are always in demand for playoff teams at the deadline. They can move up and down the line up, kill penalties and provide depth and experience. Even if the price is low, I think they can be moved to the right team. Dumping contracts and acquiring cap space would be a victory for Benning.
- fiveandagame

Absolutely…but we've gotta wait until that TDL comes. Patience and hockey fans are like oil and water.

Players like Higgins and Burrows are always in demand for playoff teams at the deadline. They can move up and down the line up, kill penalties and provide depth and experience. Even if the price is low, I think they can be moved to the right team. Dumping contracts and acquiring cap space would be a victory for Benning.
- fiveandagame

Except they aren't doing any of these things this season. They have experience, no doubt, but is that worth the increased price tag?

I think that it's going to be more like a bankruptcy auction than a firesale. Even without taking trade protection into account, and with a few exceptions, teams don't want what we have to sell. If most of the veterans can easily be replaced by cheaper AHL players, and it's hard to argue that they can't, other teams are more likely to go that route.
- CubanBuffet

You might be right, but when you look at trade deadlines from years past, teams contending for a cup have been willing to give up mid round picks for versatile vets that have been there before then relying on AHL call-up when preparing for a cup run.

Except they aren't doing any of these things this season. They have experience, no doubt, but is that worth the increased price tag?
- CubanBuffet

If you could get a 3rd and 4th for Burrows and Higgins wouldn't it be worth it. The acquiring team gets the experience and versatility at a cheap price. The Canucks get a couple of mid round picks and cap space.

And you can't blame Nonis &Gillis for Benning & Willie trading away draft picks, bringing in ineffective players and selling off assets for pennies.

This team is pretty bad right now but to lay that squarely at the previous mgmt is false.
It would be one thing if the current mgmt had said we are rebuilding and taken steps to facilitate that, instead we saw this group try to take short cuts which haven't shown much success yet either.

I still think we see this team improve from where they are now but the problems go deeper than Higgins which includes some of the guys brought in from this regime.
- belcherbd

I'm not gonna defend Benning as he hasn't been there long enough yet, but I will say this, at least he tried to acquire some talented players rather than sitting back and doing nothing or waiting on some second round picks to develop, considering he felt the team could compete last year.

There's a reason he had to take those chances and it's because of poor organizational drafting in the Gillis and Nonis years. If they'd have drafted guys that'd be in the 25-28 range you wouldn't see Higgins and Burrows with contracts because those younger guys would have pushed them out the door already.

A huge problem for the organization is a missing generation between the Sedins, Burrows and company and kids like Horvat, McCann and Virtanen.

And you can't blame Nonis &Gillis for Benning & Willie trading away draft picks, bringing in ineffective players and selling off assets for pennies.

This team is pretty bad right now but to lay that squarely at the previous mgmt is false.
It would be one thing if the current mgmt had said we are rebuilding and taken steps to facilitate that, instead we saw this group try to take short cuts which haven't shown much success yet either.

I still think we see this team improve from where they are now but the problems go deeper than Higgins which includes some of the guys brought in from this regime.
- belcherbd

I totally disagree with all of your points. The player gap we see right now is ALL on the previous regimes hands. We can judge Willie & Benning in another year or two.
Ineffective players? Sbisa steadily improving until injured. Boy, do we miss him now! Sutter, improving until injured. Boy, do we miss him!
Dorestt & Prust, pretty much as advertised but maybe a little pricey.

I know you are part of the 'freak out crowd' that hates everything Benning is done and I probably can't change that.

If you were to make an "all-time" roster for the Canucks the D-core has always been suspect. They have had some really good players, but never the #1 stud guy.

Guys like Jovonavski, Ohlund, Lumme ect. All very good players but not on the same level as Bourque, Pronger, Lidstrom, Keith, etc.
- fiveandagame

I was trying to figure out the last team to win a cup without a stud dman. I guess the Pens could qualify (although Letang was playing lights out back then). Other than that, it would have to be the '06 Hurricanes.

Chicago- Keith
LA- Doughty
Boston- Chara
Pens- Letang
Detroit- Lidstrom
Anaheim- Pronger

You get the point...

You might be right, but when you look at trade deadlines from years past, teams contending for a cup have been willing to give up mid round picks for versatile vets that have been there before then relying on AHL call-up when preparing for a cup run.
- fiveandagame

Don't get me wrong, I hope that you're right, but I'm not holding my breath. I don't think that there has ever been so many teams tight to the cap. Cheap talent is more valuable then ever. The only chance is to take bad contracts back in return, which if the Canucks are truly looking a few years down the road might not be a bad idea.

The team is without any quality players in the 24/25/26/27/28 year old range for two reasons, poor drafting and trying to compete for the Stanley Cup.

There's a large generational gap there, Ray Ferraro said yesterday, and I've heard him say it before, there's a bunch of players in the American League that are equal to players like Higgins and Burrows, or better.

The problem, as he stated, is Benning is saddled with those contracts from previous regimes and you can't just make them disappear. You have to wait it out or be creative, because, as he stated, if we can see how brutal they've become, it's pretty obvious other teams pro scouts are seeing the same things.
- LeftCoaster

Sorry I don't buy that our ahl players are equal or as some think better than the Higgins/Burrows etc.

If the problem is just the contracts of those players keeping the AHL talent out of the NHL, we would see them up instead of Virtanen/McCann. The AHL talent just isn't that good yet.

Those contracts he is saddled with are Burrows and that is it.

Higgins, Hansen, Edler, Sedin's are not hurting this team's cap as much as Dorsett, Prust, Sbisa, Miller, Sutter contracts.

Where were these complaints about high salaries when Benning was overpaying ? I kept reading on here that the cap doesn't matter for a team rebuilding.

If you could get a 3rd and 4th for Burrows and Higgins wouldn't it be worth it. The acquiring team gets the experience and versatility at a cheap price. The Canucks get a couple of mid round picks and cap space.
- fiveandagame

If you can get that then make sure you print "no refunds" on the receipt.

DJ Marky Mark is starting in net tonight boys.

I totally disagree with all of your points. The player gap we see right now is ALL on the previous regimes hands. We can judge Willie & Benning in another year or two.
Ineffective players? Sbisa steadily improving until injured. Boy, do we miss him now! Sutter, improving until injured. Boy, do we miss him!
Dorestt & Prust, pretty much as advertised but maybe a little pricey.

I know you are part of the 'freak out crowd' that hates everything Benning is done and I probably can't change that.
- Marwood

I agree with Lefty's point and your agreement that the player gap is dependent upon the previous regime trying to win the Cup.

Where I disagree is laying the blame entirely upon the previous regime's players.

The ineffective players I refer to as well are Baertschi, Vey, Bonino, Clendening.

I agree Sbisa has improved, but still don't think he is part of the solution and still overpaid for his contributions, I've supported Sutter over Bonino from day one, the contract is questionable considering they had a year to watch him play.

Sorry I don't buy that our ahl players are equal or as some think better than the Higgins/Burrows etc.

If the problem is just the contracts of those players keeping the AHL talent out of the NHL, we would see them up instead of Virtanen/McCann. The AHL talent just isn't that good yet.

Those contracts he is saddled with are Burrows and that is it.

Higgins, Hansen, Edler, Sedin's are not hurting this team's cap as much as Dorsett, Prust, Sbisa, Miller, Sutter contracts.

Where were these complaints about high salaries when Benning was overpaying ? I kept reading on here that the cap doesn't matter for a team rebuilding.
- belcherbd

He didn't say "OUR" AHL franchise, I'm quoting him, he said in the AHL as a whole.

I was trying to figure out the last team to win a cup without a stud dman. I guess the Pens could qualify (although Letang was playing lights out back then). Other than that, it would have to be the '06 Hurricanes.

Chicago- Keith
LA- Doughty
Boston- Chara
Pens- Letang
Detroit- Lidstrom
Anaheim- Pronger

You get the point...
- nucks_94

Aside from Edmonton, the Canucks might have the worse d core in the league.

He didn't say "OUR" AHL franchise, I'm quoting him, he said in the AHL as a whole.
- LeftCoaster

Ahh, my mistake, I was pretty surprised to see him calling our players better.

I understand now.

And you can't blame Nonis &Gillis for Benning & Willie trading away draft picks, bringing in ineffective players and selling off assets for pennies.

This team is pretty bad right now but to lay that squarely at the previous mgmt is false.
It would be one thing if the current mgmt had said we are rebuilding and taken steps to facilitate that, instead we saw this group try to take short cuts which haven't shown much success yet either.

I still think we see this team improve from where they are now but the problems go deeper than Higgins which includes some of the guys brought in from this regime.
- belcherbd

Uh...actually you can thank Nonis and Gillis for a lot of the current problems. At one time Gillis had 10 NTCs in the mix and getting rid of picks for rentals almost three straight years after the 2011 cup final? We all understood the panic to 'win now' but that window was slammed shut after the playoffs of 2012. Gillis didn't fix anything after that except the Horvat pick. Look how long it took the Flames to get out of that funk. years. We are the Flames 2.0 they had 9 NTC's at one time it took five years to get that club back on track to the PO's last year. It will take Benning another 3.5 years to fix all of Gillis' fck ups. Can't believe you don't see that.

Sorry I don't buy that our ahl players are equal or as some think better than the Higgins/Burrows etc.

If the problem is just the contracts of those players keeping the AHL talent out of the NHL, we would see them up instead of Virtanen/McCann. The AHL talent just isn't that good yet.

Those contracts he is saddled with are Burrows and that is it.

Higgins, Hansen, Edler, Sedin's are not hurting this team's cap as much as Dorsett, Prust, Sbisa, Miller, Sutter contracts.

Where were these complaints about high salaries when Benning was overpaying ? I kept reading on here that the cap doesn't matter for a team rebuilding.
- belcherbd

Boy it's a damn good thing you aren't a scout for this team or involved in player assessment. Have you even watched the past 10 games with Higgins Burrows Weber? They could EASILY be replaced by Utica players for what we are getting out of them. And it's not by a small margin.

Boy it's a damn good thing you aren't a scout for this team or involved in player assessment. Have you even watched the past 10 games with Higgins Burrows Weber? They could EASILY be replaced by Utica players for what we are getting out of them. And it's not by a small margin.
- LordHumungous

Not to mention the cap savings.

Uh...actually you can thank Nonis and Gillis for a lot of the current problems. At one time Gillis had 10 NTCs in the mix and getting rid of picks for rentals almost three straight years after the 2011 cup final? We all understood the panic to 'win now' but that window was slammed shut after the playoffs of 2012. Gillis didn't fix anything after that except the Horvat pick. Look how long it took the Flames to get out of that funk. years. We are the Flames 2.0 they had 9 NTC's at one time it took five years to get that club back on track to the PO's last year. It will take Benning another 3.5 years to fix all of Gillis' fck ups. Can't believe you don't see that.

- LordHumungous

Both Nonis and Gillis made mistakes and left this team with some NTC's but in no way is that carte blanche for this regime. I criticized Gillis on his (frank) ups and Nonis as well but signing Higgins to 2.5 and a limited NTC isn't what is holding this team back.

Had a thought last night.

(just to annoy Vantel)

Sedin
Sedin
Weber

for

Shea Weber.

Salaries match, names match, needs match.
Get er done.

Both Nonis and Gillis made mistakes and left this team with some NTC's but in no way is that carte blanche for this regime. I criticized Gillis on his (frank) ups and Nonis as well but signing Higgins to 2.5 and a limited NTC isn't what is holding this team back.
- belcherbd

What's holding this team back is trading draft picks for rentals year after year after year after year.
And now, here we are.

Had a thought last night.

(just to annoy Vantel)

Sedin
Sedin
Weber

for

Shea Weber.

Salaries match, names match, needs match.
Get er done.
- dbot

Dear god!