There D is bad when everyone is healthy. Now subtract Steit and MDZ and it's just awful. Manning is a 7/8 depth guy and Schultz, Schenn and Medvedev are generic 3rd pair guys. Gudas, on a strong team is also only a #5 and Ghost, while extremely skilled offensively, is far from someone you'd want matching up against top lines or killing penalties.

I don't know. Probably? What does it matter? He's not the GM. For all we know, Hextall consults Coatsey and his son Brett about trades.

The point is, constant whining about Paul Holmgren being the President of the team is sort of silly at this point. He doesn't have his hands on the controls anymore. Let it go.
- johndewar

let what go? you or I have no idea how much control or say Holmgren has.

where have I once whined about Holmgren being president? please show me and if you do you win a prize

let what go? you or I have no idea how much control or say Holmgren has.

where have I once whined about Holmgren being president? please show me and if you do you win a prize
- rinaldo

While I'll agree we don't know exactly how much power he has, I am confident Hextall didn't come here to be GM and just a yes man. He was talked about for a lot of GM jobs before coming here. I don't think he comes here unless they do it his way.

I mean look at the Eagles. Howie Roseman was promoted to executive vice president of football operations. Do we really think he has any say in the eagles roster.

Thats cool. Fire away. Maybe its not looking for a scapegoat and just actually assessing a player. Manning had (imo) his worst pro game last night. Multiple bad angles, twice was the cause for a breakaway, couldnt control the puck... just a really bad night.

I havent read anywhere on here where someone is saying "It was all Mannings fault, he was the only bad player. Bah"

Spade-Spade
- jak521

No, it's scapegoating when a team collectively played poorly, and one player only is singled out for criticism. Manning didn't play any worse than a large number of players on the team did. It was a really bad night for the majority of the team.

let what go? you or I have no idea how much control or say Holmgren has.

where have I once whined about Holmgren being president? please show me and if you do you win a prize
- rinaldo

I never said you whined about it. Others do and it's pointless.

No, it's scapegoating when a team collectively played poorly, and one player only is singled out for criticism. Manning didn't play any worse than a large number of players on the team did. It was a really bad night for the majority of the team.
- MJL

I actually thought the feistiness of the game in the beginning would maybe help them push through and kind of offset the layoff but they just didn't executed well. Giroux really struggled. you could tell they hadn't played in a little.

Manning shouldn't be singled out. The majority of the team was bad. Much easier to single out who played well.
- MJL

Manning, Medvedev, L Schenn were all bad on the blue line. Manning has become a player that is singled out. He was bad last night but like you said the whole team was not good. I think that was the worst game game I seen Giroux play this year. Costly penalty, couldn't win a face off, and just didn't look good. Mason played well but it seems he continually lets in ONE soft goal. That can't happen in a tight game.
RJ=fried
Couturier=3rd line Centre

Manning, Medvedev, L Schenn were all bad on the blue line. Manning has become a player that is singled out. He was bad last night but like you said the whole team was not good. I think that was the worst game game I seen Giroux play this year. Costly penalty, couldn't win a face off, and just didn't look good. Mason played well but it seems he continually lets in ONE soft goal. That can't happen in a tight game.
RJ=fried
Couturier=3rd line Centre
- 3flyerkids

Couturier was one of the few players who actually had a solid game. He was good on the cycle, had two assists, and played well over all. He finally has some good offensive players around him, and he has 6 points in the last 5 games. He's more than a 3rd line center.
Medvedev had a decent game with the exception of a poor choice on the hip check. Read and Laughton also played well in limited ice time.

Couturier was one of the few players who actually had a solid game. He was good on the cycle, had two assists, and played well over all. He finally has some good offensive players around him, and he has 6 points in the last 5 games. He's more than a 3rd line center.
Medvedev had a decent game with the exception of a poor choice on the hip check. Read and Laughton also played well in limited ice time.
- MJL

Agree.

I thought Raffl had an ok game. Brayden seemed to disappear again. I mean the team last night showed a lot of flaws that come up when you don't have enough talent. But these games happen to middle of the pack teams.

Giroux is pointless in his last 5 games. Brutal.

While I'll agree we don't know exactly how much power he has, I am confident Hextall didn't come here to be GM and just a yes man. He was talked about for a lot of GM jobs before coming here. I don't think he comes here unless they do it his way.

I mean look at the Eagles. Howie Roseman was promoted to executive vice president of football operations. Do we really think he has any say in the eagles roster.
- J35Bacher

you don't have to be a yes man to allow others have a say....Holmgren consulted with Clarke all the time...not saying hex tall does or doesn't.

Giroux is pointless in his last 5 games. Brutal.
- PLindbergh31

And Brayden has gone in to witness protection again

Couturier was one of the few players who actually had a solid game. He was good on the cycle, had two assists, and played well over all. He finally has some good offensive players around him, and he has 6 points in the last 5 games. He's more than a 3rd line center.
Medvedev had a decent game with the exception of a poor choice on the hip check. Read and Laughton also played well in limited ice time.
- MJL

in your opinion.

And Brayden has gone in to witness protection again
- J35Bacher

I'm starting to think B. Schenn is what he is at this point. A streaky player who disappears for long stretches. Pretty underwhelming.

And Brayden has gone in to witness protection again
- J35Bacher

Putting Brayden on the same level as G?

you don't have to be a yes man to allow others have a say....Holmgren consulted with Clarke all the time...not saying hex tall does or doesn't.
- rinaldo

What's your definition of have a say? If Hextall wants to trade Giroux tomorrow for Stamkos is Holmgren going to tell him he cant?

I think we all can agree he might use Holmgren as a sounding board but if Hextall wants to do something with the team he will. With or without Holmgren's approval.

Putting Brayden on the same level as G?
- SuperSchennBros

not on same level. But considering they are line mates they do have some influence on each other. If Schenn is playing well you don't think that might help Giroux? And vice versa.

in your opinion.
- rinaldo

I agree with him.

not on same level. But considering they are line mates they do have some influence on each other. If Schenn is playing well you don't think that might help Giroux? And vice versa.
- J35Bacher

Does Schenn hold an impact on Giroux's game?

What's your definition of have a say? If Hextall wants to trade Giroux tomorrow for Stamkos is Holmgren going to tell him he cant?

I think we all can agree he might use Holmgren as a sounding board but if Hextall wants to do something with the team he will. With or without Holmgren's approval.
- J35Bacher

While I don't think Holmgren would veto Hextall, he is the team President, and is essentially Hextall's boss. Holmgren still goes on scouting trips to look at players, so he is still involved somewhat on the player level.

Couturier was one of the few players who actually had a solid game. He was good on the cycle, had two assists, and played well over all. He finally has some good offensive players around him, and he has 6 points in the last 5 games. He's more than a 3rd line center.
Medvedev had a decent game with the exception of a poor choice on the hip check. Read and Laughton also played well in limited ice time.
- MJL

Hey , I want Couturier to succeed so let's hope he ends up in the range of 50 points as to that is what a 2nd line Centre should be getting. I just think he doesn't have the best hands in the offensive zone. Great shut down guy.
I would like too see Laughton with more ice.
Medvedev had issues controlling puck all night.
Luke was Luke.
Totally seen enough of RJ

Does Schenn hold an impact on Giroux's game?
- SuperSchennBros

If they are on the ice together then yes he has some impact. If your wingers are doing nothing offensively then yes it can effect the center.

I am not disagreeing that Giroux hasn't been good, but this isn't golf. He's not out there alone and if he hits a bad shot he only has himself to blame.

Hey , I want Couturier to succeed so let's hope he ends up in the range of 50 points as to that is what a 2nd line Centre should be getting. I just think he doesn't have the best hands in the offensive zone. Great shut down guy.
I would like too see Laughton with more ice.
Medvedev had issues controlling puck all night.
Luke was Luke.
Totally seen enough of RJ
- 3flyerkids

Do me a favor, and take a look at the scoring stats for centers last year, and see how many 2nd line centers in the league had 50 points. Couturier, even with the poor offensive start this season, is on pace for 40 points currently. If his increase in scoring keeps going, he could put up a 50 point season.

If they are on the ice together then yes he has some impact. If your wingers are doing nothing offensively then yes it can effect the center.

I am not disagreeing that Giroux hasn't been good, but this isn't golf. He's not out there alone and if he hits a bad shot he only has himself to blame.
- J35Bacher

Wow...

No debating with this logic.

Giroux is pointless in his last 5 games. Brutal.
- PLindbergh31

the guy (frank)ing sucks. Probably Holmgrens fault too.