I don't know how to fix this kind of thinking. How did Kane and Toews work out? How about Sid and Malkin? For every failure you will find 10 success stories.
- VANTEL

Why you bringing chicago into this. They made sure to surround Toews, Kane and co with vetern players.

The edm massacre and the Chicago rebuild are to far different scenerios.
We are trying the Chicago rebuild
You are asking for a edm rebuild

Or do knowledgeable fans see edm as a more successful rebuild?

See again failing to see things.

I was trying to point out that Oilers dedication to someone who had stayed way too long and was hurting the club , much like some of the Canucks favorites . You take it as I am an Oiler fan with a Kevin Lowe jersey.
- VANTEL

Then why did u point out Chicago in the same reasoning?

Why you bringing chicago into this. They made sure to surround Toews, Kane and co with vetern players.

The edm massacre and the Chicago rebuild are to far different scenerios.
We are trying the Chicago rebuild
You are asking for a edm rebuild

Or do knowledgeable fans see edm as a more successful rebuild?
- Bieksa#3

I never once said I want an Oiler type rebuild . I don't know why saying I want top 10 picks means I want an Oiler rebuild. People jump to conclusions so easily.

LA Ott Fla Minny Dal Cgy Col. Bos all come to mind of they type of planning I prefer

Then why did u point out Chicago in the same reasoning?
- Bieksa#3

huh


I said Chi and LA are success stories. What are you talking about saying I think they are like the Oilers?

I don't know how to fix this kind of thinking. How did Kane and Toews work out? How about Sid and Malkin? For every failure you will find 10 success stories.
- VANTEL

I don't think anyone is arguing to reunite the 2011 roster for one more tour, but you make it sound like there is a short cut to icing a competitive team. Chicago never thought that. They were absolutely terrible for years, which obviously increases your chances of being terrible when a couple of franchise players are available. Ditto the Islanders, Lightening, Panthers, etc. They didn't tank, they sucked for a long time.

The Oilers tried the short cut, as did the Sabers. Obviously we know how it's worked for Edmonton, and we'll see how it works for Buffalo. Right now the best you can say for either team is they both have some amazing players on shltty teams.

I never once said I want an Oiler type rebuild . I don't know why saying I want top 10 picks means I want an Oiler rebuild. People jump to conclusions so easily.

LA Ott Fla Minny Dal Cgy Col. Bos all come to mind of they type of planning I prefer
- VANTEL

I think it's the cheering for losing that gives that impression. And Colorado is bad at hockey. They would totally trade Jay Buhner. They don't know what the hell they're doing.

I never once said I want an Oiler type rebuild . I don't know why saying I want top 10 picks means I want an Oiler rebuild. People jump to conclusions so easily.

LA Ott Fla Minny Dal Cgy Col. Bos all come to mind of they type of planning I prefer
- VANTEL

The hawks kept vets around while injecting youth. You don't wanna do that. Thus you want an edm rebuild. It's either keep the vets around and inject youth or cut them and do an edm rebuild.

I think it's the cheering for losing that gives that impression. And Colorado is bad at hockey. They would totally trade Jay Buhner. They don't know what the hell they're doing.
- CubanBuffet

Is that a Seinfeld reference

Is that a Seinfeld reference
- Bieksa#3

Not that there's anything wrong with that...

Is that a Seinfeld reference
- Bieksa#3

Of course.

Finally you realize it
jk
But I don't think you could argue(let alone suggest) that Higgins is an upgrade over Gaunce. Higgins is no longer needed on the PK, and he no longer provides scoring. He isn't even scoring at a 4th line level. Waive him, bring up Gaunce. I don't see Grenier being an upgrade over burrows at this time, however i would like to see Burrows sit 3-4 games and Grenier play in his stead.
Trades that I think would help us BIG TIME come TDL would be Hansen, Vrbata, Hammer. Hammer is worth a 1st+, i know a lot of you disagree, but you are stupid to think so. Hammer Is better than a 5/6 dman on any team, and an upgrade on most teams #4 and some #3 dmen. Lesser defensemen got more than a 1st last year TDL. He would also waive to go to a team he would look to resign in, unless he plans to retire at the end of the season.
Vrbata is worth up to a 1st, most likely a 2nd + B prospect or 3rd. The fact that his contract ends at the end of the season makes him the perfect rental as teams don't have to shed salary to keep him in the offseason. This in itself has value for players like him.
Hansen is having a career year, and has proven that he can play on any line, and in any situation. He would get us a 1st + prospect due to term with such a low cap hit for a player who can slot into 3/2/1 lines as needed/injuries during playoffs and season. Only downside to trading him is that we need players like him to teach young guys how to be on the ice. This is a situation where you weigh to options. He will be useless and in decline when we are ready to compete. Would he be better served to quicken our rebuild, or better served teaching the youngins when they make the show?
- Retinalz

The thing about rebuilds/retools or what-ever, is that everything is seamlessly connected with regards to development and success.

The reason we have the Higgins, Burrows, Sbisas, Prusts, Dorssets etc etc etc on the team is because we are void of depth at all levels.

Yes, Gaunce and even Grenier might be an upgrade over some of the above names, but moving them into a losing environment at the NHL level when they are developing just fine is a risky move.

Think about it, Utica has a great thing going right now, what happens to them if you poach 2/3rds of their top line?

What happens to the development of Shink, Subban, Cassels etc?

It's a slow process, but it's working.

The young guns are coming along, the NHL team is frankly, where most of us expected them to be. Knee-jerking in one direction (Buying) or the other (Selling), will have negative consequences. Buying would constitute a quick fix band aid solution that we have seen fail numerous times before our own eyes. Selling everything while easy in theory, represents hitting rock bottom. Once there, its very very difficult to recover (EDM, FLA, COL, CLB, BUF, TOR, ETC).

Why risk it when you can just ride it out?
Why implement a EDM/BUF mandate when we can select the Detroit model?

Edit, response wasn't aimed directly at you, more so the Tank Nationers

The thing about rebuilds/retools or what-ever, is that everything is seamlessly connected with regards to development and success.

The reason we have the Higgins, Burrows, Sbisas, Prusts, Dorssets etc etc etc on the team is because we are void of depth at all levels.

Yes, Gaunce and even Grenier might be an upgrade over some of the above names, but moving them into a losing environment at the NHL level when they are developing just fine is a risky move.

Think about it, Utica has a great thing going right now, what happens to them if you poach 2/3rds of their top line?

What happens to the development of Shink, Subban, Cassels etc?

It's a slow process, but it's working.

The young guns are coming along, the NHL team is frankly, where most of us expected them to be. Knee-jerking in one direction (Buying) or the other (Selling), will have negative consequences. Buying would constitute a quick fix band aid solution that we have seen fail numerous times before our own eyes. Selling everything while easy in theory, represents hitting rock bottom. Once there, its very very difficult to recover (EDM, FLA, COL, CLB, BUF, TOR, ETC).

Why risk it when you can just ride it out?
Why implement a EDM/BUF mandate when we can select the Detroit model?
- Whiskey-Tango

Perfect post

The thing about rebuilds/retools or what-ever, is that everything is seamlessly connected with regards to development and success.

The reason we have the Higgins, Burrows, Sbisas, Prusts, Dorssets etc etc etc on the team is because we are void of depth at all levels.

Yes, Gaunce and even Grenier might be an upgrade over some of the above names, but moving them into a losing environment at the NHL level when they are developing just fine is a risky move.

Think about it, Utica has a great thing going right now, what happens to them if you poach 2/3rds of their top line?

What happens to the development of Shink, Subban, Cassels etc?

It's a slow process, but it's working.

The young guns are coming along, the NHL team is frankly, where most of us expected them to be. Knee-jerking in one direction (Buying) or the other (Selling), will have negative consequences. Buying would constitute a quick fix band aid solution that we have seen fail numerous times before our own eyes. Selling everything while easy in theory, represents hitting rock bottom. Once there, its very very difficult to recover (EDM, FLA, COL, CLB, BUF, TOR, ETC).

Why risk it when you can just ride it out?
Why implement a EDM/BUF mandate when we can select the Detroit model?

Edit, response wasn't aimed directly at you, more so the Tank Nationers
- Whiskey-Tango

Very well said.

The thing about rebuilds/retools or what-ever, is that everything is seamlessly connected with regards to development and success.

The reason we have the Higgins, Burrows, Sbisas, Prusts, Dorssets etc etc etc on the team is because we are void of depth at all levels.

Yes, Gaunce and even Grenier might be an upgrade over some of the above names, but moving them into a losing environment at the NHL level when they are developing just fine is a risky move.

Think about it, Utica has a great thing going right now, what happens to them if you poach 2/3rds of their top line?

What happens to the development of Shink, Subban, Cassels etc?

It's a slow process, but it's working.

The young guns are coming along, the NHL team is frankly, where most of us expected them to be. Knee-jerking in one direction (Buying) or the other (Selling), will have negative consequences. Buying would constitute a quick fix band aid solution that we have seen fail numerous times before our own eyes. Selling everything while easy in theory, represents hitting rock bottom. Once there, its very very difficult to recover (EDM, FLA, COL, CLB, BUF, TOR, ETC).

Why risk it when you can just ride it out?
Why implement a EDM/BUF mandate when we can select the Detroit model?

Edit, response wasn't aimed directly at you, more so the Tank Nationers
- Whiskey-Tango

I couldn't have articulated that better myself; I expect around two veteran players to be moved out per year to make room for youth, to maintain a good balance, falling to the bottom will still happen IMO but the compete level will be there.

It's a slow and arduous process, collecting talented youth, and there's a lot of luck involved with drafting. There's an equal number of failures to winners with drafting, it's the development and surrounding with good experience, not to mention the right coach, that's so important.

A lot of factors at play, but it all starts with picking some good young prospects.

I couldn't have articulated that better myself; I expect around two veteran players to be moved out per year to make room for youth, to maintain a good balance, falling to the bottom will still happen IMO but the compete level will be there.

It's a slow and arduous process, collecting talented youth, and there's a lot of luck involved with drafting. There's an equal number of failures to winners with drafting, it's the development and surrounding with good experience, not to mention the right coach, that's so important.

A lot of factors at play, but it all starts with picking some good young prospects.
- LeftCoaster

F*ck tank nation!

F*ck tank nation!
- Marwood

I want the top pick as much as anybody. But it has to be done the right way. It's a learning curve. Development is as important as talent

I want the top pick as much as anybody. But it has to be done the right way. It's a learning curve. Development is as important as talent
- Bieksa#3

I'm not very advanced, I don't understand.
I like bubbles and watching insects on water.

The thing about rebuilds/retools or what-ever, is that everything is seamlessly connected with regards to development and success.

The reason we have the Higgins, Burrows, Sbisas, Prusts, Dorssets etc etc etc on the team is because we are void of depth at all levels.

Yes, Gaunce and even Grenier might be an upgrade over some of the above names, but moving them into a losing environment at the NHL level when they are developing just fine is a risky move.

Think about it, Utica has a great thing going right now, what happens to them if you poach 2/3rds of their top line?

What happens to the development of Shink, Subban, Cassels etc?

It's a slow process, but it's working.

The young guns are coming along, the NHL team is frankly, where most of us expected them to be. Knee-jerking in one direction (Buying) or the other (Selling), will have negative consequences. Buying would constitute a quick fix band aid solution that we have seen fail numerous times before our own eyes. Selling everything while easy in theory, represents hitting rock bottom. Once there, its very very difficult to recover (EDM, FLA, COL, CLB, BUF, TOR, ETC).

Why risk it when you can just ride it out?
Why implement a EDM/BUF mandate when we can select the Detroit model?
- Whiskey-Tango

The problem is that, we HAVE to play Grenier this year. No choice in the NHL. He looks like he will be a 4th/3rd liner and is no longer waiver exempt at the end of the season. IF we don't look now and wait until he tries to win a spot next season, what is the likelihood that a team like Toronto picks him off of waivers next season. Surrounding Youth with Vets is of utmost importance. Problem is that when those vets(HIggins) are useless, our youth aren't learning how to be NHL players. Send Higgins down, bring Gaunce up. Leave Burrows in. Trade Hammer and Vrbata no matter what, think on Hansen. I would love to see 2vets to 1 youth. I would consider Bo more of a vet than youth at this point. When Sutter gets back.

Sedins-X
Gaunce-Sutter-Grenier
Baer-Bo-Burrows
Prust-Mcann-Dorsett
Edler-Tanev
Hutton-Sbisa
Bart-Biega
Fedun

I'm not very advanced, I don't understand.
I like bubbles and watching insects on water.
- Marwood

I like insects on the water too = fly fishing

I'm not very advanced, I don't understand.
I like bubbles and watching insects on water.
- Marwood

We really don't deserve to talk hockey with him. He's wasting his knowledge. We are not worthy

The problem is that, we HAVE to play Grenier this year. No choice in the NHL. He looks like he will be a 4th/3rd liner and is no longer waiver exempt at the end of the season. IF we don't look now and wait until he tries to win a spot next season, what is the likelihood that a team like Toronto picks him off of waivers next season. Surrounding Youth with Vets is of utmost importance. Problem is that when those vets(HIggins) are useless, our youth aren't learning how to be NHL players. Send Higgins down, bring Gaunce up. Leave Burrows in. Trade Hammer and Vrbata no matter what, think on Hansen. I would love to see 2vets to 1 youth. I would consider Bo more of a vet than youth at this point. When Sutter gets back.

Sedins-X
Gaunce-Sutter-Grenier
Baer-Bo-Burrows
Prust-Mcann-Dorsett
Edler-Tanev
Hutton-Sbisa
Bart-Biega
Fedun
- Retinalz

The problem is you clearly didn't read Whiskey Tangos post. It covers this quite nicely

I'm not on board for a 100% tank, but I do have to say I enjoy being a canucks fan right now. If they win great... my team won and that's always a good thing. If they lose we're that much closer to a top pick. The only time I get upset with the team is when they put in zero effort (vs Minny, Boston to name a few)

I would love the Sedins to have another crack at the cup. I wouldn't mind if the Canucks got a top 5 pick this year and unloaded a ton of salary at the deadline so they can be super active at July 1.

The problem is you clearly didn't read Whiskey Tangos post. It covers this quite nicely
- Bieksa#3

It did not. His advocated keeping Higgins. Mine advocated giving him the boot and why. His advocated keeping Gaunce and Grenier in Utica to help develop Shink, Cassels, Subban, etc. Mine advocates bringing those 2 up. Gaunce because he deserves it, and Grenier because he deserves it and needs a look before he becomes waiver eligible.

It did not. His advocated keeping Higgins. Mine advocated giving him the boot and why. His advocated keeping Gaunce and Grenier in Utica to help develop Shink, Cassels, Subban, etc. Mine advocates bringing those 2 up. Gaunce because he deserves it, and Grenier because he deserves it and needs a look before he becomes waiver eligible.
- Retinalz

No his advocated the right path. You advocate the wrong path.
If Grenier is waiver eligible next season and doesn't play well enough to make the team then so be it
As was stated you drop a few vets each yr to create room for the young guys to compete for a spot.

Over 28yrs of age...

Henrik
Daniel
Burrows
Higgins
Hansen
Vrbata - UFA
Dorsett
Cracknell - UFA
Hamhuis - UFA
Edler
Miller

Aged 25 to 28...

Sutter - Benning
Bartkowski - Benning
Tanev - Gillis
Sbisa - Benning
Biega - AHL callup - Benning
Markstrom - Gillis

Aged 18 to 24...

Horvat - Gillis
McCann - Benning
Baertschi - Benning
Hutton - Gillis
Virtanen - Benning
Vey - Benning

That bottom 2/3rds of the lineup needs a lot of work!!!