IMO if Hossa moving to LW is an option, TT deserves the first crack at 1st line RW - not Dano.
- busmaster

The thing with Dano is,

if he could slot in that top line, lines 3 and 4 look sooo much better;

Shaw - Danault - TT
Desi - Krug - Garbutt

Is Rinolodo (F Bruins)


Getting into Matt Cooke / Raffi Tores territory ?

I agree with this Bus. TT has been here, paid his dues a bit, and helped win the Cup last year. Yes, he gets first dibs
- kwolf68

I think TT Has found his nitch playing right wing on the third line. He is racking up points and looks more comfortable on the third line. Why put him again on the first line and get manhandled? TT is physically not ready to play on the top line regardless if he plays as a right winger.....past performance tells you it would be a big mistake.

The thing with Dano is,

if he could slot in that top line, lines 3 and 4 look sooo much better;

Shaw - Danault - TT
Desi - Krug - Garbutt
- vabeachbear

Assuming Denault is the real deal, and Kruger comes back at 100%, and continues his strong play that is a nice looking bottom 6......

The thing with Dano is,

if he could slot in that top line, lines 3 and 4 look sooo much better;

Shaw - Danault - TT
Desi - Krug - Garbutt
- vabeachbear

This. Rasmussen can hopefully hold down the fort as 4C until Kruger returns. What about even getting Dano up now and leaving Shaw on line 1?

Shaw - Toews - Hossa
PAnarin - Anisimov - Kane
Dano - Danault - TT
Desi - Rasmussen - Garbutt

completely OWNED Stan in that deal.
- tredbrta

Seems to be the verdict more often than not. Yeah, he's made some good deals, but more often than not, he has little to show through trades. Call it having a gun to his had post Cup, and in the Sharp deal, but I wonder what another GM could have done in the same scenario.

The thing with Dano is,

if he could slot in that top line, lines 3 and 4 look sooo much better;

Shaw - Danault - TT
Desi - Krug - Garbutt
- vabeachbear

I agree, we all wish that Dano could play on the Toews line. Unfortunately, he is not ready to play on one of the top two lines...our coach right now doesn't even think he is ready to play on any line. I think he should be playing right now on the fourth line.
IMO, Hossa will probably call it quits after next year...he is physically breaking down ...which is understandable, playing in so many playoff finals. Why would Hossa want to continue playing for a million only with a young wife and small children at home. I think Dano would be a good bet to take over for Hossa in two years.

IMO, trading our first pick , Hartman and McNeil and Poka might get you a quality LW to play on the Toews line. Doesn't trade eitherTT or Dano...bottom line or your future will be like it was 12 years ago.

Eli, or other Icehog observers - how is Dano doing at LW - does it look like he is getting more comfortable and effective playing there?

Ryan is great. I am proud to say I helped him get his start here on HB. He both knows the game as a player and as a stat geek. And that's important.

But I agree with you Rico on how stats can be deceiving. Another blogger here has a whole mythology built (and backed up by some "stats" mind you) that Cody Franson is vastly superior to Brent Seabrook. And there is a classic case where stats simply don't hold up to the eye test.

Myself, I definitely will rely on the eye test over stats. Although I have come to use stats more the last couple of years.

That said, and it's why I praise Ryan for knowing the game first and being a stat guy second, there are so many "opinions" out there of people who rely solely on stats because they've never played the game or played in meaningfully. And stats become what they lean on like a drunk uses a lamppost.

Not to pick on one person, but I read a blog last year by someone who often has some good insights, that was titled something that stated that hitting doesn't equal winning in hockey. OK, so if you know me, you know I was interested to read that. The gist of the article was a highly statistical argument for what we have all heard here many times prior and since, that high hit counts generally mean low possession/chasing the puck.

No argument.

But high hit counts are one thing.

A single big hit or series of big hits in a game, or in a playoff series, are often a huge factor in winning. And they can be in a regular season game as well. The article's title, at least, would lead you to believe that hitting is just for "meatheads" and really has no place in what should be more like Disney on Ice.

Which is really just stupid. Anyone who's played meaningful hockey knows: hitting matters big time.

My belief is, if you want to understand hockey, it is best to play it for several years and with as good players and coaches as you can. Failing that, listen to those who have played. Closely. Watch a lot of hockey. And then hold stats up against that. Don't use stats in a vacuum. Even advanced analytics like Corsi, Fenwick, HERO (which I like quite a bit actually, because it outs Corsi into some more useful context).

Oh, and read this thread, haha. There area number of very smart hockey minds on here who I have learned some things from.
- John Jaeckel

Was reading Blashill mention a stat guy was telling him possession doesn't matter and had stats to prove it. As Blashill mentioned scratching his head, how can not having the puck ever be a good thing?

The game where the Hawks sucked v Carolina they dominated Corsi.

With hits being a bad thing by some statistical measure does it take into consideration how many times a Dman, for instance, has been hit that game and how many turnovers he commits, and where they are, after the hits or late in the game when he's been softened?

Point is context. There are sooooo many fancy stats now and a rocket science geek can probably argue both sides of the same point supported by fancy stats. Numbers tell you player A does well with player B and not player C, it can't be disputed. But the eye test should tell you that as well..... I like a hybrid way of looking at evaluating with both the eye and stats, but that was true even before fancy stats to a degree. Again being an old guy eye test trumps as it allows for nuance but fancy stats can help me see when I am wrong.

Good point. If so, Nill completely OWNED Stan in that deal.
- tredbrta

No one really knows what Sharp's demands were in any trade. I could see Sharp being a real b1t(h in his demands.

Ryan is great. I am proud to say I helped him get his start here on HB. He both knows the game as a player and as a stat geek. And that's important.

But I agree with you Rico on how stats can be deceiving. Another blogger here has a whole mythology built (and backed up by some "stats" mind you) that Cody Franson is vastly superior to Brent Seabrook. And there is a classic case where stats simply don't hold up to the eye test.

Myself, I definitely will rely on the eye test over stats. Although I have come to use stats more the last couple of years.

That said, and it's why I praise Ryan for knowing the game first and being a stat guy second, there are so many "opinions" out there of people who rely solely on stats because they've never played the game or played in meaningfully. And stats become what they lean on like a drunk uses a lamppost.

Not to pick on one person, but I read a blog last year by someone who often has some good insights, that was titled something that stated that hitting doesn't equal winning in hockey. OK, so if you know me, you know I was interested to read that. The gist of the article was a highly statistical argument for what we have all heard here many times prior and since, that high hit counts generally mean low possession/chasing the puck.

No argument.

But high hit counts are one thing.

A single big hit or series of big hits in a game, or in a playoff series, are often a huge factor in winning. And they can be in a regular season game as well. The article's title, at least, would lead you to believe that hitting is just for "meatheads" and really has no place in what should be more like Disney on Ice.

Which is really just stupid. Anyone who's played meaningful hockey knows: hitting matters big time.

My belief is, if you want to understand hockey, it is best to play it for several years and with as good players and coaches as you can. Failing that, listen to those who have played. Closely. Watch a lot of hockey. And then hold stats up against that. Don't use stats in a vacuum. Even advanced analytics like Corsi, Fenwick, HERO (which I like quite a bit actually, because it outs Corsi into some more useful context).

Oh, and read this thread, haha. There area number of very smart hockey minds on here who I have learned some things from.
- John Jaeckel

Advanced stats tell part of the story, when combined with what the eye sees.

I like to look at a couple of other season-long team stats that others don't think are important - not sure why, but maybe it's me.

Hawks are 22-13-4=48 points, on pace for 101 points, which should be good enough to get into the tournament - looks like a nice record.

But - their overall record is a bit less bright: 22 wins 17 losses. That's ok, because in the West, only Dallas, St. Louis, Minnesota and LA join Chicago in being over .500.

But - that record is enhanced by being 8-4 in overtime/shootout situation: the Hawks are only 14-13 in games decided in regulation - in the "old" NHL, their record would be 14-13-12. 31% of their games have gone to extra time. That's basically a .500 team - even with the league.

Many have said that the Hawks are not as good as their record - only 4 teams in the league - 3 in the West - have more points - to me, their extra-time record is why.

And, to me, their regulation record is important because unlike the regular season, OT play in the tournament is mostly 5X5, not the 3X3 that Toews and Kane excel at.

I keep seeing a .500 team - win one or two, lose a couple, can't put teams away, struggles 5X5 - that will almost surely play post-season, and will have to rely on their tournament experience and exceptional goaltending to get further than one round.

Seems to be the verdict more often than not. Yeah, he's made some good deals, but more often than not, he has little to show through trades. Call it having a gun to his had post Cup, and in the Sharp deal, but I wonder what another GM could have done in the same scenario.
- howiehandles

Other GM's would have an easier time the worse their team is. Any GM with a post cup cap crunch trying to reload for a title defense is bent over and handcuffed. I give SB credit for moving Daley as soon as he did for anyone that could lace up a pair of skates and play 5 minutes. The largest beef with SB seems to be that he waits too long to make a move, but not this time. I think Q preferred a Scuderi type rather than Daley and SB got er done as well as he could without giving up too much or upsetting the team chemistry apple cart.

Great blog n great post today at 8:30 JJ, JJ I think sometimes we forget how important hitting is especially in the playoffs. Bickell was so important in this regard in 2013 n for a few rounds last year. Big Buffs hitting in the 2010 final especially against Pronger was a huge factor in that series.
I worry without Bickell able to fill that role it could be something we will really miss this year in the playoffs. I know 1LW n maybe another D are the priority but we could use a big time hitter as well. So that is why if we go for a rental I'm hoping for Buff. Can fill 1LW , can crush defenceman hell he can play defense too.

Advanced stats tell part of the story, when combined with what the eye sees.

I like to look at a couple of other season-long team stats that others don't think are important - not sure why, but maybe it's me.

Hawks are 22-13-4=48 points, on pace for 101 points, which should be good enough to get into the tournament - looks like a nice record.

But - their overall record is a bit less bright: 22 wins 17 losses. That's ok, because in the West, only Dallas, St. Louis, Minnesota and LA join Chicago in being over .500.

But - that record is enhanced by being 8-4 in overtime/shootout situation: the Hawks are only 14-13 in games decided in regulation - in the "old" NHL, their record would be 14-13-12. 31% of their games have gone to extra time. That's basically a .500 team - even with the league.

Many have said that the Hawks are not as good as their record - only 4 teams in the league - 3 in the West - have more points - to me, their extra-time record is why.

And, to me, their regulation record is important because unlike the regular season, OT play in the tournament is mostly 5X5, not the 3X3 that Toews and Kane excel at.

I keep seeing a .500 team - win one or two, lose a couple, can't put teams away, struggles 5X5 - that will almost surely play post-season, and will have to rely on their tournament experience and exceptional goaltending to get further than one round.
- StLBravesFan

Nice post. Agree with the last part especially. Their PP could relieve some of the pressure 5 on 5. Would be helpful if they could use their speed to draw penalties, but they don't seem to have that advantage so much these days.

I agree, we all wish that Dano could play on the Toews line. Unfortunately, he is not ready to play on one of the top two lines...our coach right now doesn't even think he is ready to play on any line. I think he should be playing right now on the fourth line.
IMO, Hossa will probably call it quits after next year...he is physically breaking down ...which is understandable, playing in so many playoff finals. Why would Hossa want to continue playing for a million only with a young wife and small children at home. I think Dano would be a good bet to take over for Hossa in two years.

IMO, trading our first pick , Hartman and McNeil and Poka might get you a quality LW to play on the Toews line. Doesn't trade eitherTT or Dano...bottom line or your future will be like it was 12 years ago.
- spanky

Not sure what evidence you are seeing of Hossa breaking down physically, that one is a stretch to me, I don't see it.

My point about Dano was really about playoff time. Dano having almost a full year in Rockford, could be ready. My opinion we won cups because of depth at the Forward spot and Q's ability to roll 4 lines.

I'd still argue even now, that with Dano up, because of what it does for the bottom lines Hawks are deeper and better.

Wouldn't give up all 3 of those guys for a rental LW, maybe McNeill and a pick.

Seems to be the verdict more often than not. Yeah, he's made some good deals, but more often than not, he has little to show through trades. Call it having a gun to his had post Cup, and in the Sharp deal, but I wonder what another GM could have done in the same scenario.
- howiehandles

You can look and see evidence of how other GMs would do, you could be the Penguins!

Be careful what you wish for.

To think that other GMs could somehow wave a magic wand and get rid of cap issues and never lose a good player, or continue to draft at the bottom of the first round and always get the best player in the draft is lunacy.

You can look and see evidence of how other GMs would do, you could be the Penguins!

Be careful what you wish for.

To think that other GMs could somehow wave a magic wand and get rid of cap issues and never lose a good player, or continue to draft at the bottom of the first round and always get the best player in the draft is lunacy.
- vabeachbear

Bowman TDL deals have netted some wins and some less than wins-- BUt Vermette nets the Hawks a 3rd Cup-- That alone is better than most any GM in the NHL-- period--

Regarding a 'rental player' since the Hawks have AZ GM on speed dial (apparently) wonder if there is a scenario where their captain Shane Doan could be an inexpensive rental player for a Cup run (ala Vermette 2015)-- he can return to the desert after he gets a shot at a Cup-- Doan checks the boxes for physical play-- can finish-- and more leadership / will than most anyone who could be available--

Just a musing considering that there is a 'special' relationship between the teams-- not advocating for this just saying-- would love to see someone like Doan physical banging style for the Hawks come playoff time

Not sure what evidence you are seeing of Hossa breaking down physically, that one is a stretch to me, I don't see it.

My point about Dano was really about playoff time. Dano having almost a full year in Rockford, could be ready. My opinion we won cups because of depth at the Forward spot and Q's ability to roll 4 lines.

I'd still argue even now, that with Dano up, because of what it does for the bottom lines Hawks are deeper and better.

Wouldn't give up all 3 of those guys for a rental LW, maybe McNeill and a pick.
- vabeachbear

Doesn't look like he's doing bad down there, 16Games - 2G 10A +9

Yo Mex, any thoughts on why the Hawks tried Rundblad and Svedberg before Gustafsson? Then tried Gustafsson, sent him back keeping both Rundbald and Svedberg before axing Rundbald, sending Sved down and bringing back Gustafsson?

Jury is still out on Gustafsson obviously but the dates these guys played showed they thought more of Sved and Rundblad (twice) than Gustafsson, at least starting in late October.
- Mr Ricochet

They simply wanted him to work on quick DZone exits in Rockford before coming back up. I think he turned even Q's head the first time with the Hawks because of how aggressively he plays his game. EG can become a top 4 DMan, IMO, if he continues to make quick, smart decisions with the puck and works on his upper body strength for play around the crease.

For all the misses that Bowman has had, you have to give him HUGE credit for the additions of Panarin, TVR, Guftasson, Rasmussen and Kero (even Baun looked very good in camp). In this day and age, acquiring personnel has become MUCH MORE than just the "turkey shoot" draft.

http://chicago.suntimes.com/sports/7/71/1220731/blackhawks-holes-fill-cap-space-work

Lazerus thinks a No. 4 defenseman, takes priority over a bottom-six forward.

Thoughts?
- walleyeb1

No, I think that TVR and Guftasson give the Hawks a solid #4/5 mix...the key is the play of the #6/7 rotation, Rozy and Scuderi MUST give the Hawks 12-15 minutes a night of solid, predictable defence...and they SHOULD. There is 20+ years of experience and 4 SC's between them!

The absolute key for the Hawks is finding someone who can score goals next to Toews.

Captain Kane!

http://www.nhl.com/ice/m_news.htm?id=795530

Check this out: http://blackhawks.nhl.com/club/news.htm?id=795535

Nice move by 'Hawks management.

The thing with Dano is,

if he could slot in that top line, lines 3 and 4 look sooo much better;

Shaw - Danault - TT
Desi - Krug - Garbutt
- vabeachbear

I think you are right again VBear...

I am not opposed to Teravainen getting a shot as the 1st line RW, however, like you, I still feel Dano would be better because of how strong he is with the puck. Right now due to his lack of physical strength, TT's game doesn't compliment Toews and Hossa very well. Certainly TT has the skill to play with them.

Another huge key to acquiring a 1st line LW or putting Dano there is the return of Andrew Shaw to the bottom 6. A Line of Danault, Shaw and TT would be dynamite for the Hawks come playoff time and would give opposing coaches loads of matchup nightmares. Plus a 4th line of Krugs with Desi and Garbutt gives Q his "shut down" line. These 4 lines would take a LOT of pressure off of the defence and the goalies.