I've been doing some research and thinking, I've got some time on my hands and I love the game. I'm now of the opinion I'd tear this sucker down top to bottom.
- LeftCoaster

Way ahead of you.

I use the expression pull the band aid off slowly or get it over with

I don't know that for a "fact" but yes it quite possible, yet still an assumption. If it is true, this team will be stuck in mediocrity for the next decade...I'm not onboard with that!
- LeftCoaster

None of us are. That being said, no GM can build the team we want with an owner who would rather have 2 home games in playoffs every year for the next few decades, than miss for 1-2 years and compete for the cup. I know some of you will blast "We are further than 2 years away", but we are not Edmonton. We have great ground work of prospects and just need a solid #1 centre and #1 dman. Both can be acquired in only 2 drafts if draft high enough.

Haven't we been through this before?
I'm also leaning towards the coaching being suspect but,
what's the alternative course?

I totally understand and respect peoples opinions concerning Bennings failures, but i have yet to hear any alternative approach that would seemingly work "better" then what we are currently witnessing.

Its as though the narrative has become a vicious cycle:

"I hate Benning"
Why?
"Because his moves are poop"
What should he have done?
"Not that"
Ok, what would you have done?
"Not that"
...
- Delta-Bravo

So after a year and a half, plus hindsight, assessments are being handed out.
So if we look at Babcock, over WD and make the judgement that Toronto is doing better with less, with a 10mil a year coach that has 14 years experience against 1.5 for WD. I am also suspect of coaching structure out of WD but to compare him to a marque coach isn't fair to WD.

McCellen has better players (on paper) and he doing poop in Edmonton. WD will learn to be an NHL coach just like all other coaches had to go through, it's just tough to watch as a fan.

He was handed a team in serious decline when he first got here, not to mention the complete lack of a prospect pool from the Nonis and Gillis regimes, BUT, after a year and a half of observation I'm leaning towards he's not very good at his job.

Outside of picking up some good prospects through the draft he's had more missteps that positives ones. He pisses away assets to get what he wants for marginal upgrades and wastes valuable cap space seemingly at will.

His decision to hire a coach that seems lost on more occasions than not is also becoming quite evident. If they sell at the TDL, Willie Desjardins is not the coach to teach young kids the game. Just look to Toronto to see what a difference a tremendous coach can do with less.

All that said, the team was in decline, so despite his unrealistic expectations that this team could still compete, it was never going to happen. And he's made it worse through his trades and acquisitions.

Sorry...
- LeftCoaster

Some good points to be sure but you are off on a few...but not everyone agrees on everything.

Benning added some good ingredients to get a non-playoff team in the PO's last season PLUS WD was a big part of that. We had no business being in the playoffs yet there we were...and still contending for a PO spot this year despite all the injuries. Has to be some coaching savvy there no? All the while Benning has improved out prospect pool to the best it has been in 10 years.

And I still respectfully disagree on WD and your comments on the youth. I watched him his whole time in Med Hat and followed him in Texas. He can bring the youth along with the right personnel and by that I mean ridding ourselves of the rest of the stale core. Once the rest of the stale vets are gone I believe we will see what WD is made of. Might happen as soon as next year hard to say but I hope he gets his shot to do it before the pundits and media demand his firing. The next step is to bring the youth along at the NHL level which I believe he can do...just needs to be given the chance. He has done it at every level no reason to think he can't do it here once he is given the right personnel to work with.

And on the Babcock comparison? That's a weird one to me. Babcock is s seasoned vet with Gold Medal and cup experience where WD will need to learn a bit more given the opportunity. I had Babcock as a brief practise coach when I played junior so I know what he is capable of...so caomparing WD to Babcock is a little unfair. Sure TO's prospect pool finally looks good too but they are also a few years away from contending. As good a coach as babcock is they are still a bottom 5 club and WD has this team competeing for the PO's with 6 starters out of the lineup and the team in the top 20 and you are praising Babcock? Pardon me if I'm alittle confused there.

All the educated fans here knew the team was going into decline. Benning has not made this team worse at all just somehow has impossibly improved the prospect pool while we still have a soft stale brutal core of players to work with. All Gm's make questionable signings and trades...all. To hang that on JB after 1 1/2 years is a tad odd. JB was going to give the old core one more shot at the PO's and he did last year. You may not agree with the rebuild process or even embrace it but now he has to sytematically tear it down and Scout/draft/develop and that will take time. And whether you agree with how he is doing it or not...we are heading in the right direction.

So after a year and a half, plus hindsight, assessments are being handed out.
So if we look at Babcock, over WD and make the judgement that Toronto is doing better with less, with a 10mil a year coach that has 14 years experience against 1.5 for WD. I am also suspect of coaching structure out of WD but to compare him to a marque coach isn't fair to WD.

McCellen has better players (on paper) and he doing poop in Edmonton. WD will learn to be an NHL coach just like all other coaches had to go through, it's just tough to watch as a fan.
- Makita

Agree on all points.

My personal issue with W.D is more-so related to the players he deploys.
I simply wish he would put the kids in a better situation to succeed, i.e Sven.
He's a top sixer who plays like a top-sixer when played in the top six.

So after a year and a half, plus hindsight, assessments are being handed out.
So if we look at Babcock, over WD and make the judgement that Toronto is doing better with less, with a 10mil a year coach that has 14 years experience against 1.5 for WD. I am also suspect of coaching structure out of WD but to compare him to a marque coach isn't fair to WD.

McCellen has better players (on paper) and he doing poop in Edmonton. WD will learn to be an NHL coach just like all other coaches had to go through, it's just tough to watch as a fan.
- Makita

That's fair. Babcock came into TO with a big paycheque and a reputation of being the best.... so far, I could not have dreamed of seeing this rag-tag bunch of depth players play so well. Imagining what he can do once we get players like Nylander and Marner on the ice is quite magical

Agree on all points.

My personal issue with W.D is more-so related to the players he deploys.
I simply wish he would put the kids in a better situation to succeed, i.e Sven.
He's a top sixer who plays like a top-sixer when played in the top six.

- Delta-Bravo

I am begining to like Svens play and work ethic. I find Vey is having a better go round this time, but still I am not sure if he is an NHLer.

I've been doing some research and thinking, I've got some time on my hands and I love the game. I'm now of the opinion I'd tear this sucker down top to bottom.
- LeftCoaster

This team is not tanking!!

Someone told me that.

Go full Leaftarded?
- lumlums

Somewhat…I'd still have veterans around but there'd be a lot of changes if I had my way. Including asking the Sedins to waive.

Some good points to be sure but you are off on a few...but not everyone agrees on everything.

Benning added some good ingredients to get a non-playoff team in the PO's last season PLUS WD was a big part of that. We had no business being in the playoffs yet there we were...and still contending for a PO spot this year despite all the injuries. Has to be some coaching savvy there no? All the while Benning has improved out prospect pool to the best it has been in 10 years.

And I still respectfully disagree on WD and your comments on the youth. I watched him his whole time in Med Hat and followed him in Texas. He can bring the youth along with the right personnel and by that I mean ridding ourselves of the rest of the stale core. Once the rest of the stale vets are gone I believe we will see what WD is made of. Might happen as soon as next year hard to say but I hope he gets his shot to do it before the pundits and media demand his firing. The next step is to bring the youth along at the NHL level which I believe he can do...just needs to be given the chance. He has done it at every level no reason to think he can't do it here once he is given the right personnel to work with.

And on the Babcock comparison? That's a weird one to me. Babcock is s seasoned vet with Gold Medal and cup experience where WD will need to learn a bit more given the opportunity. I had Babcock as a brief practise coach when I played junior so I know what he is capable of...so caomparing WD to Babcock is a little unfair. Sure TO's prospect pool finally looks good too but they are also a few years away from contending. As good a coach as babcock is they are still a bottom 5 club and WD has this team competeing for the PO's with 6 starters out of the lineup and the team in the top 20 and you are praising Babcock? Pardon me if I'm alittle confused there.

All the educated fans here knew the team was going into decline. Benning has not made this team worse at all just somehow has impossibly improved the prospect pool while we still have a soft stale brutal core of players to work with. All Gm's make questionable signings and trades...all. To hang that on JB after 1 1/2 years is a tad odd. JB was going to give the old core one more shot at the PO's and he did last year. You may not agree with the rebuild process or even embrace it but now he has to sytematically tear it down and Scout/draft/develop and that will take time. And whether you agree with how he is doing it or not...we are heading in the right direction.
- LordHumungous

I don't disagree that JB isn't the issue yet and time will tell with him. WD is a small issue in that he seems to play Vets way too much(Higgins?Weber? WTF). He will get better and we need to be bad for a bit, but WD has nothing to do with us being in a Playoff spot. The bad division is what keeps us in that spot. They seem like they are playing to pull the wool over FA's eyes. Lose without looking like you are trying to lose. Problem is that this means no selling at TDL and letting UFA's walk to ensure our 1st is as high as possible.

So after a year and a half, plus hindsight, assessments are being handed out.
So if we look at Babcock, over WD and make the judgement that Toronto is doing better with less, with a 10mil a year coach that has 14 years experience against 1.5 for WD. I am also suspect of coaching structure out of WD but to compare him to a marque coach isn't fair to WD.

McCellen has better players (on paper) and he doing poop in Edmonton. WD will learn to be an NHL coach just like all other coaches had to go through, it's just tough to watch as a fan.
- Makita

If you're referring to my post I wasn't' directly comparing the two coaches, I was simply saying there's better options out there, even for a team without much talent.

This team is not tanking!!

Someone told me that.
- A_SteamingLombardi

No they're not, but that's not what I'm going on about today. If I were in control I'd start to build with some massive player personnel changes. Is that tanking, not to me, it's resetting the clock…but yes they would suck for a few years.

That's fair. Babcock came into TO with a big paycheque and a reputation of being the best.... so far, I could not have dreamed of seeing this rag-tag bunch of depth players play so well. Imagining what he can do once we get players like Nylander and Marner on the ice is quite magical
- lumlums

It is going to take years before Marner Nylander Ehlers Horvat Mccann or Virtanen to impact their clubs. All three teams have good work ethics , all three teams building. This will take years, not just one or two

No they're not, but that's not what I'm going on about today. If I were in control I'd start to build with some massive player personnel changes. Is that tanking, not to me, it's resetting the clock…but yes they would suck for a few years.
- LeftCoaster

Are you saying you would do this with your career/job on the line if you go through with it?

Somewhat…I'd still have veterans around but there'd be a lot of changes if I had my way. Including asking the Sedins to waive.
- LeftCoaster

Trade them to different teams!!!!

Are you saying you would do this with your career/job on the line if you go through with it?
- Retinalz

He hasn't got that much of a reputation to uphold...

I don't disagree that JB isn't the issue yet and time will tell with him. WD is a small issue in that he seems to play Vets way too much(Higgins?Weber? WTF). He will get better and we need to be bad for a bit, but WD has nothing to do with us being in a Playoff spot. The bad division is what keeps us in that spot. They seem like they are playing to pull the wool over FA's eyes. Lose without looking like you are trying to lose. Problem is that this means no selling at TDL and letting UFA's walk to ensure our 1st is as high as possible.
- Retinalz

Maybe not so much this year but he certainly did last year. I agree the division is super weak and has contributed but that isn't the whole reason. But there has to be some credit for some timely wins vs some very good clubs and keeping us in contention with 6 starters out. I am all in favor of picking high for the next 3 years but I will give credit where it's due.

I am begining to like Svens play and work ethic. I find Vey is having a better go round this time, but still I am not sure if he is an NHLer.
- VANTEL

Forsure.

Sven has great hockey I.Q and playmaking ability.
Even in the early going when he wasn't putting up points, atleast a few times a game you'd see him fire out these beautiful open slot passes that the likes of Cracknel, Dorsett, Higgins and Burrows just couldn't handle or bury.

As such, he resorted to trying to force the puck into the net himself which isn't ideal.

Are you saying you would do this with your career/job on the line if you go through with it?
- Retinalz

We are in 20 th place to start the day, by the end of the day we will be in 21 st guaranteed . We are one and two points ahead of 5 other teams with one or two games in hand. Chances are we could be anywhere from 20 th to 27 th by the end of the week.



What do you have to lose by making bold moves

If you're referring to my post I wasn't' directly comparing the two coaches, I was simply saying there's better options out there, even for a team without much talent.
- LeftCoaster

I took it as a comparison, my mistake. There were maybe better options, but looking at all the coaches of who were available, I'm not sure they are/were better.

No they're not, but that's not what I'm going on about today. If I were in control I'd start to build with some massive player personnel changes. Is that tanking, not to me, it's resetting the clock…but yes they would suck for a few years.
- LeftCoaster

Like Buffalo did?

He hasn't got that much of a reputation to uphold...
- lumlums

Like Buffalo did?
- A_SteamingLombardi

Buffalo has some nice pieces in their team. Give them a few years

Some good points to be sure but you are off on a few...but not everyone agrees on everything.

Benning added some good ingredients to get a non-playoff team in the PO's last season PLUS WD was a big part of that. We had no business being in the playoffs yet there we were...and still contending for a PO spot this year despite all the injuries. Has to be some coaching savvy there no? All the while Benning has improved out prospect pool to the best it has been in 10 years.

And I still respectfully disagree on WD and your comments on the youth. I watched him his whole time in Med Hat and followed him in Texas. He can bring the youth along with the right personnel and by that I mean ridding ourselves of the rest of the stale core. Once the rest of the stale vets are gone I believe we will see what WD is made of. Might happen as soon as next year hard to say but I hope he gets his shot to do it before the pundits and media demand his firing. The next step is to bring the youth along at the NHL level which I believe he can do...just needs to be given the chance. He has done it at every level no reason to think he can't do it here once he is given the right personnel to work with.

And on the Babcock comparison? That's a weird one to me. Babcock is s seasoned vet with Gold Medal and cup experience where WD will need to learn a bit more given the opportunity. I had Babcock as a brief practise coach when I played junior so I know what he is capable of...so caomparing WD to Babcock is a little unfair. Sure TO's prospect pool finally looks good too but they are also a few years away from contending. As good a coach as babcock is they are still a bottom 5 club and WD has this team competeing for the PO's with 6 starters out of the lineup and the team in the top 20 and you are praising Babcock? Pardon me if I'm alittle confused there.

All the educated fans here knew the team was going into decline. Benning has not made this team worse at all just somehow has impossibly improved the prospect pool while we still have a soft stale brutal core of players to work with. All Gm's make questionable signings and trades...all. To hang that on JB after 1 1/2 years is a tad odd. JB was going to give the old core one more shot at the PO's and he did last year. You may not agree with the rebuild process or even embrace it but now he has to sytematically tear it down and Scout/draft/develop and that will take time. And whether you agree with how he is doing it or not...we are heading in the right direction.
- LordHumungous

Good post….I wasn't comparing WD to Babcock, I was saying you can do more with less if you have an experienced coach with better systems. WD just seems like a pushover and his deployment of players in certain situations annoys me.

As for Benning, my biggest issue is the prospect pool could be a bunch better without some of the moves he's made, he's overpaid for what he wants and it cost the system. And for what? The teams actually worse than it was last year.

I know they were going to take a step back and inject some youth, that said, McCann and Hutton came out of nowhere. They could have taken a step back and not gave Pittsburgh the second we got from Anaheim for Sutter, idiotic move. They gave Clendening and Forsling away for nothing, again, idiotic!, etc.

Are you saying you would do this with your career/job on the line if you go through with it?
- Retinalz

Of course, it can only be done with ownerships approval AND it's the right thing to do.