Can anyone recommend an intelligent hockey board instead of the kuntfarm that is hockeybuzz? I'm not surprised about all the hate because this is the internet, but I'd really enjoy some thoughtful discussion as opposed to throwing poop.

It seems to me like you're expecting JV to be a messiah instead of a contributing member to this hockey team. I'm fairly certain he's good enough to be a member of the canucks (whether thats the first line or the fourth line) for years to come. Yes, it would be ideal if he turned into Todd Bertuzzi, but that level of expectation is extremely hard to live up to.

Jamie Benn currently leads the NHL with 24 goals. He also has 80 hits. If you had to guess how many players have at least half as many goals (12) and at least 80 hits, how many players do you think that is?

Ovi 21G, 109 Hits
Jenner 14G, 108 Hits
Abdelkader 12G, 99 Hits

That's it.

Notable mention to Hartnell (15/79) and Pavelski (20/76)

JV at 19 years old gets 2.79 hits per game and 1.32 shots on goal per game in his rookie season. Why do you give a fuxk if he didn't show up for a junior tournament?
- Max.Betts

Who is this rant addressed to? If it's this group I think you need to take a pill. You want intelligent discussion, there has been some, join in or better yet initiate it.

lumlums, Retinalz, DariusKnight, Canuck Don seem to be discussing intelligent hockey, join in and relax...step away from the key board, take 10 deep breathes and exhale, and give it another try.

What was Alexandre daigles ppg in his draft year? Jus sayin what ya do in jr....is not transferable to the NHL. 1st rounders flame out all the time
- Bullfrog77

Of course. In Daigle's case it seemed to be a lack of giving a (frank) and relying on skill alone, he's the anomoly really... the biggest problem with drafting high at times is valuing the wrong attributes (strength, toughness, grit etc) when you should be going for skill.

Me???
- Makita

Who is this rant addressed to? If it's this group I think you need to take a pill. You want intelligent discussion, there has been some, join in or better yet initiate it.

lumlums, Retinalz, DariusKnight, Canuck Don seem to be discussing intelligent hockey, join in and relax...step away from the key board, take 10 deep breathes and exhale, and give it another try.
- Makita

specifically? ...the last 30 pages of comments on Carol's blogs.

Both took extremely stupid penalties in this one. Marner could have been on the PP going for a hat trick to tie the game and instead he couldn't control himself.
- Cape Breton Bruins

Caper why are you in here

Of course. In Daigle's case it seemed to be a lack of giving a (frank) and relying on skill alone, he's the anomoly really... the biggest problem with drafting high at times is valuing the wrong attributes (strength, toughness, grit etc) when you should be going for skill.
- lumlums

I want to put my first through the TV every draft when they say "Well his skill isn't developed enough to be drafted this high, but he comes with the benefit of being able to play right now"

Especially in the top 10.

Of course. In Daigle's case it seemed to be a lack of giving a (frank) and relying on skill alone, he's the anomoly really... the biggest problem with drafting high at times is valuing the wrong attributes (strength, toughness, grit etc) when you should be going for skill.
- lumlums

Or a combination of both skill and strength?
I like Torontos young prospects, I just think that they may have to many of the same ilk. Which is good I guess as one or more may not pan out, it's just that they need to get a big winger or two to ride shotgun with the smaller guys.
I don't think virtanen is the next coming off big burt but I do think that he can be an effective top 6 player who will make his centre better by giving him more space.
If Mccann becomes or 1c 5 years down the road, would you rather have him paired up with a shinkuruk and another small(I'd use a name but we don't have any other small forwards) or have virtanen and Boeser with him? I'd rather have one larger meaner player on each line even if he isn't as skilled as his line mates.
Toronto needs to get a couple of bigger players to ride shotgun.
Anyways

specifically? ...the last 30 pages of comments on Carol's blogs.
- Max.Betts

Then you have selective interpretation.

I want to put my first through the TV every draft when they say "Well his skill isn't developed enough to be drafted this high, but he comes with the benefit of being able to play right now"

Especially in the top 10.
- Lindenis#1

Exactly. Too many focussed on the now, not enough on the future.

Or a combination of both skill and strength?
I like Torontos young prospects, I just think that they may have to many of the same ilk. Which is good I guess as one or more may not pan out, it's just that they need to get a big winger or two to ride shotgun with the smaller guys.
I don't think virtanen is the next coming off big burt but I do think that he can be an effective top 6 player who will make his centre better by giving him more space.
If Mccann becomes or 1c 5 years down the road, would you rather have him paired up with a shinkuruk and another small(I'd use a name but we don't have any other small forwards) or have virtanen and Boeser with him? I'd rather have one larger meaner player on each line even if he isn't as skilled as his line mates.
Toronto needs to get a couple of bigger players to ride shotgun.
Anyways
- Pres.cup

Size is useful for sure. I'm just happy that the Leafs are focusing on skill... It's easy too teach a kid to eat well and get them to the gym, much tougher to teach them the hands and hockey IQ.

Exactly. Too many focussed on the now, not enough on the future.
- lumlums

Thing is, it's hard with 18 year olds to predict their eventual place/NHL career because they haven't developed and reached their potential yet (whatever that may be). You have to be focused on the now because with the way the salary cap is set up, you can't afford not to. The NHL is quickly becoming a league where you have 1-2 even 3 guys taking up 50% of the cap space and the rest are all on ELCs or bridge contracts. There's a lot of guys who are free agents and can play that aren't getting contracts in the NHL because there's just no cap space available for them.

It's why again I advocate that the draft age gets raised to 20. Let the kids finish their CHL careers and give kids in the NCAA a chance to decide whether they want turn pro or finish their degrees (and for gods sake, close the damned loophole that Justin Schultz used to become a UFA) and those draftees will be much better prepared to play in the NHL or season in the AHL rather than wreck their bodies when they're 18/19 because the team desperately needs them to fill a hole in their lineup.

I want to put my first through the TV every draft when they say "Well his skill isn't developed enough to be drafted this high, but he comes with the benefit of being able to play right now"

Especially in the top 10.
- Lindenis#1

So basically you did what I did when they took Virtanen over Ehlers?

So basically you did what I did when they took Virtanen over Ehlers?
- Nucker101

And Nylander.

I thought if they were going to take a big player they should have gone Ritchie. Not a 17yr old playing on a line with a pair of 20 year olds on a team with an insane PDO

Thing is, it's hard with 18 year olds to predict their eventual place/NHL career because they haven't developed and reached their potential yet (whatever that may be). You have to be focused on the now because with the way the salary cap is set up, you can't afford not to. The NHL is quickly becoming a league where you have 1-2 even 3 guys taking up 50% of the cap space and the rest are all on ELCs or bridge contracts. There's a lot of guys who are free agents and can play that aren't getting contracts in the NHL because there's just no cap space available for them.

It's why again I advocate that the draft age gets raised to 20. Let the kids finish their CHL careers and give kids in the NCAA a chance to decide whether they want turn pro or finish their degrees (and for gods sake, close the damned loophole that Justin Schultz used to become a UFA) and those draftees will be much better prepared to play in the NHL or season in the AHL rather than wreck their bodies when they're 18/19 because the team desperately needs them to fill a hole in their lineup.
- DariusKnight

That first paragraph reads as "A lot of team management groups/scouts are incompetent"

And Nylander.

I thought if they were going to take a big player they should have gone Ritchie. Not a 17yr old playing on a line with a pair of 20 year olds on a team with an insane PDO
- Lindenis#1

Blasphemy!!

canada eliminated

Blasphemy!!
- Nucker101

I think I had him 9th in his draft year for the reasons listed and then people were surprised that he didn't show big strides in his draft+1 year.

I even remember writing about this when I used to blog regularly and remember people replying back with "yeah but wut if he is lucic!" "canucks need there own lucic" "good local kid with a good attitude is important tho"

And Jake isn't even a big kid. He's 6'1 which makes him bigger than average in the CHL and blandly a hair bigger than average in the NHL. He's shorter than the Sedins. The same height as Hansen.

I think I had him 9th in his draft year for the reasons listed and then people were surprised that he didn't show big strides in his draft+1 year.

I even remember writing about this when I used to blog regularly and remember people replying back with "yeah but wut if he is lucic!" "canucks need there own lucic" "good local kid with a good attitude is important tho"

And Jake isn't even a big kid. He's 6'1 which makes him bigger than average in the CHL and blandly a hair bigger than average in the NHL. He's shorter than the Sedins. The same height as Hansen.
- Lindenis#1

If he turns out to be Chris Kreider, I'd say the Canucks should be happy considering his lack of progress since being drafted. That's who he reminds me of.

I remember reading about his high sh% and such, but I doubt Benning puts any stock into things like that when evaluating players.

canada eliminated
- SMBDragon

Yes they were, haven't you heard it was all Virtanen fault. All 6 goals against, and 3 penalties.

If he turns out to be Chris Kreider, I'd say the Canucks should be happy considering his lack of progress since being drafted. That's who he reminds me of.

I remember reading about his high sh% and such, but I doubt Benning puts any stock into things like that when evaluating players.
- Nucker101

Benning is a dope.

Kreider was at the top of the NCAA outplaying kids three years his senior and holding his own against young men as a freshman. I'd love it if Virtanen showed that kind of ability.

He should be back in Junior. I have no idea why he wasn't sent back in October. Probably just Benning not wanting to keep McCann who was drafted later.

I've seen people say "Well what does he have to prove?" I'm not sure, maybe that he can dominate his own age level? That would be a good place to start. Its not like he scored 100pts in 40 games. He was barely over PPG across two seasons combined.

My views on McCann on the team are a whole 'nother pit.

Benning is a dope.

Kreider was at the top of the NCAA outplaying kids three years his senior and holding his own against young men as a freshman. I'd love it if Virtanen showed that kind of ability.

He should be back in Junior. I have no idea why he wasn't sent back in October. Probably just Benning not wanting to keep McCann who was drafted later.

I've seen people say "Well what does he have to prove?" I'm not sure, maybe that he can dominate his own age level? That would be a good place to start. Its not like he scored 100pts in 40 games. He was barely over PPG across two seasons combined.

My views on McCann on the team are a whole 'nother pit.
- Lindenis#1

Isn't WHL a bit harder to score than the other 2 CHL? he was also more of a goals guy than a 2nd assist guy like a lot of "2pt/game" players.

Can anyone recommend an intelligent hockey board instead of the kuntfarm that is hockeybuzz? I'm not surprised about all the hate because this is the internet, but I'd really enjoy some thoughtful discussion as opposed to throwing poop.

It seems to me like you're expecting JV to be a messiah instead of a contributing member to this hockey team. I'm fairly certain he's good enough to be a member of the canucks (whether thats the first line or the fourth line) for years to come. Yes, it would be ideal if he turned into Todd Bertuzzi, but that level of expectation is extremely hard to live up to.

Jamie Benn currently leads the NHL with 24 goals. He also has 80 hits. If you had to guess how many players have at least half as many goals (12) and at least 80 hits, how many players do you think that is?

Ovi 21G, 109 Hits
Jenner 14G, 108 Hits
Abdelkader 12G, 99 Hits

That's it.

Notable mention to Hartnell (15/79) and Pavelski (20/76)

JV at 19 years old gets 2.79 hits per game and 1.32 shots on goal per game in his rookie season. Why do you give a fuxk if he didn't show up for a junior tournament?
- Max.Betts

Are you sure that's it? I know Komarov has 15g and 163 hits, 80 hits for Benn seems low. In any case, Virtanen is getting some rough treatment, the whole team didn't play well throughout the tourney.

Yes they were, haven't you heard it was all Virtanen fault. All 6 goals against, and 3 penalties.
- Makita

you must be kidding..... but I didnt watch the game so I wouldnt know

So basically you did what I did when they took Virtanen over Ehlers?
- Nucker101

Big old broken record.

I suppose i can understand your continued contempt for the Virtanen selection, but in that case you fail to acknowledge the McCann selection.

Ehlers: 37gp, 5g, 7a, 12pts.
McCann: 36gp, 7g, 4a, 11pts.

So Benning took a big, quick "power forward" and a skilled, analytical poster boy.

I don't see anything wrong with diversifying draft picks, seeking to fill specific needs. Perhaps, just maybe....Benning believed McCann would still be available later in the 1st and opted to pursue 2 needs as opposed to selecting two somewhat comparable players in Ehlers + McCann?

Big old broken record.

I suppose i can understand your continued contempt for the Virtanen selection, but in that case you fail to overlook the McCann selection.

Ehlers: 37gp, 5g, 7a, 12pts.
McCann: 36gp, 7g, 4a, 11pts.

So Benning took a big, quick "power forward" and a skilled, analytical poster boy.

I don't see anything wrong with diversifying draft picks, seeking to fill specific needs. Perhaps, just maybe....Benning believed McCann would still be available later in the 1st and opted to pursue 2 need as opposed to selecting two somewhat comparable players in Ehlers + McCann?
- Delta-Bravo

Virtanen isn't big.

Ehlers also has 30~ more shots than McCann in the same amount of games on top of being an offensive dynamo at the WJC and Junior level.

And the argument of McCann vs Ehlers just further proves what a nothing Virtanen is and has been since his draft.

Its bad drafting and process to draft based on need since generally a teams situation 2-5 years from now changes so much. And if Jimbo was really drafting for need then he's blind if he did so and didn't think of taking a defenceman before the third round each year since taking the helm.