Barbara Bach... nobody does it better! Ringo wins by a landslide simply cuz of her.
- LandlordTom

"Lana, zug zug".

It almost as though you have decided to be unreasonable.
- Der Kaiser

How so? O'Reilly is an excellent player, but if we aren't competing for the playoffs, his contributions are pretty meaningless. Thus Zadrorov being in the AHL, or Compher being in college not really a big deal

How so? O'Reilly is an excellent player, but if we aren't competing for the playoffs, his contributions are pretty meaningless. Thus Zadrorov being in the AHL, or Compher being in college not really a big deal
- sbroads24

If, in 6 years, we meet the Avs in the Cup finals, and the Avs win and Zadorov wins the Conn Smythe, we lose the trade.

Some observations:

-Currently, Buffalo has a 48.2% Corsi for. Last year we had a 37.5%. In a statistic where even 1% is huge, we are more than 10% improved. We are MUCH better.

-Jack Eichel leads the team in 5v5 points with 15 (Risto is second with 14)

-Risto and Georges have CF% of 45.7 and 47.8 respectively, but have played the toughest competition with defensive zone starts.

-Eichel has very poor possession numbers (-4.0 Corsi for relative to teammates). He is not a complete player yet.

-Pysyk, Moulson, Reinhart, and Zemgus are the only positive corsi players on the team (Pysyk is first)

-Nic Deslauries is our worst possession player with 39.5%. I nominate him for worst player on the team
- MattFreaknEllis

These two standout to me considering their ice time and competition. Girgensons at one point was amongst the elite in dcorsi

These two standout to me considering their ice time and competition. Girgensons at one point was amongst the elite in dcorsi
- Sabresfan-365

Makes us realize that despite the lack of points, Gus is going to be okay. Also, Moulson is not a waste (yet)

How so? O'Reilly is an excellent player, but if we aren't competing for the playoffs, his contributions are pretty meaningless. Thus Zadrorov being in the AHL, or Compher being in college not really a big deal
- sbroads24

The post I responded to asked how we can be better if we're 29th in the standings. As one of this communities most frequent proponents of Corsica, fr wick, protected o-zone starts, "underlying numbers," and similar data points presently supplementing the "eye test" do you really ask the standing question in good faith?

Makes us realize that despite the lack of points, Gus is going to be okay. Also, Moulson is not a waste (yet)
- MattFreaknEllis

Molson absolutely is.

Makes us realize that despite the lack of points, Gus is going to be okay. Also, Moulson is not a waste (yet)
- MattFreaknEllis

You did a good job compiling all these stats, and sure, they mean something.

But one thing that advance stats do not take in account is contract. Dollar amount or term.

With that in mind, Moulson is a waste in my opinion.

Here is the team as rated by 5v5 close Corsi Relative to Teammates:
Pysyk: +6.2
Girgensons: +5.3
Moulson: +5.2
Reinhart: +4.8
Weber: +2.9
O'Reilly: +2.3
Gorges: +1.5
Kane: +1.1
Franson: +0.9
McGinn: +0.8
Larsson: +0.7
Gionta: +0.1
Folignio: -0.3
McCabe: -1.3
Ristolainen: -2.1
Legwand: -2.8
Ennis: -3.2
Colaiacovo: -3.8
Eichel: -4.0
Bogosian: -4.5
Deslauriers: -8.3

You did a good job compiling all these stats, and sure, they mean something.

But one thing that advance stats do not take in account is contract. Dollar amount or term.

With that in mind, Moulson is a waste in my opinion.
- rmiethaner

Yes, I agree Moulson is overpaid, however he is helping the team (also contracts and salary cap are not a concern now). Had he been hurting the team I would think that he is a waste

edit: and yes, in the future it will probably be an awful contract, but until he starts actually playing poorly I don't think its fair to poop on him for what he does on the ice

Here is the team as rated by 5v5 close Corsi Relative to Teammates:
Pysyk: +6.2
Girgensons: +5.3
Moulson: +5.2
Reinhart: +4.8
Weber: +2.9
O'Reilly: +2.3
Gorges: +1.5
Kane: +1.1
Franson: +0.9
McGinn: +0.8
Larsson: +0.7
Gionta: +0.1
Folignio: -0.3
McCabe: -1.3
Ristolainen: -2.1
Legwand: -2.8
Ennis: -3.2
Colaiacovo: -3.8
Eichel: -4.0
Bogosian: -4.5
Deslauriers: -8.3
- MattFreaknEllis

Weber Top 5 player on the team?

The post I responded to asked how we can be better if we're 29th in the standings. As one of this communities most frequent proponents of Corsica, fr wick, protected o-zone starts, "underlying numbers," and similar data points presently supplementing the "eye test" do you really ask the standing question in good faith?
- Der Kaiser

I guess my definition of better is different.

Yes, our underlying numbers are much better. But again, we are measuring a bar raised 6 inches off the ground as Buff19 says frequently.
We didn't make these moves for watchability. We made them to acquire key pieces to future cup runs.

Right now, I'd say O'Reilly is a fixture. The others have presented more questions than answers IMO. And that's where my issue lies

For Goose, myself, and others: the only expectation or hope for on ice performance this season was entirely tied to two things. Having entertaining hockey to watch again and watching the key young players grow and improve.

I don't understand the difference with being in 20th versus 28th or 29th overall.

I'd rather have them lose every single close game and finish with a top 5 pick when it's the most beneficial thing long term to the team's success.

So when Pysyk comes back, are we at Pysyk/McCabe, Bogo/Franson, Risto/Gorges....plus our highest relative Corsi defenseman sits out?

Weber Top 5 player on the team?
- Der Kaiser

This is why I find numbers interesting.

Note, not top player. Only a top playing in improving his teammates possession. In no world would I take Weber over Eichel, but we should commend Weber for playing well this season (relative to his talent) in his third pairing role as far as possession is concerned

So when Pysyk comes back, are we at Pysyk/McCabe, Bogo/Franson, Risto/Gorges....plus our highest relative Corsi defenseman sits out?
- LandlordTom

Weber has a high percentage of goals against when he is on the ice

Also, Pysyk would be the highest

I guess my definition of better is different.

Yes, our underlying numbers are much better. But again, we are measuring a bar raised 6 inches off the ground as Buff19 says frequently.
We didn't make these moves for watchability. We made them to acquire key pieces to future cup runs.

Right now, I'd say O'Reilly is a fixture. The others have presented more questions than answers IMO. And that's where my issue lies
- sbroads24

Were guys like McGinn, Kane, and Bogosian supposed to be key pieces for the future cup runs or were they supposed to be supporting pieces for the likes of Risto, Girgensons, Eichel, and Reinhart?

Until I watched him play regularly, I thought even O'Reilly was a supporting player to the 4 young guys I mentioned above and not a key piece.

I guess my definition of better is different.

Yes, our underlying numbers are much better. But again, we are measuring a bar raised 6 inches off the ground as Buff19 says frequently.
We didn't make these moves for watchability. We made them to acquire key pieces to future cup runs.

Right now, I'd say O'Reilly is a fixture. The others have presented more questions than answers IMO. And that's where my issue lies
- sbroads24

Let's use your phrase to settle it. The pieces were acquired for "future cup runs" not for a cup run this year. So if we're 29 today - and btw I still believe there's a hot streak that will take us far higher - that doesn't compel either the conclusion that A) we're not better or B) we're not closer to the future cup run.

And if that is "unacceptable" as you and 19 keep repeating, there are 29 other franchises whose play you might be willing to "accept" and whose boards might be more harmonious.

I feel like watching the games this year is way easier than last year,despite the losses.
They still have a lot to work on, but the occasional 3rd period comeback or 5 unanswered goal wins makes me positive about them.
- seedy

Agreed. I try not to get too up when they go on a "won 4 of 5" run and try not to get too down on these little losing streaks. It's fun to watch again, albeit sometimes aggravating.

Were guys like McGinn, Kane, and Bogosian supposed to be key pieces for the future cup runs or were they supposed to be supporting pieces for the likes of Risto, Girgensons, Eichel, and Reinhart?

Until I watched him play regularly, I thought even O'Reilly was a supporting player to the 4 young guys I mentioned above and not a key piece.
- kingcong39

So am I wrong in rembering 90% of us thinking we got Eichel's wing man for the next 5 years? I seem to remember that being a theme.

So am I wrong in rembering 90% of us thinking we got Eichel's wing man for the next 5 years? I seem to remember that being a theme.
- sbroads24

I won't speak for others but I never believed that. They're both "puck on my stick always" players which makes it a bad combo. It's why I love the Girgs-Eichel duo.

Edit: I wasn't the only one though, just can't remember who specifically.

Let's use your phrase to settle it. The pieces were acquired for "future cup runs" not for a cup run this year. So if we're 29 today - and btw I still believe there's a hot streak that will take us far higher - that doesn't compel either the conclusion that A) we're not better or B) we're not closer to the future cup run.

And if that is "unacceptable" as you and 19 keep repeating, there are 29 other franchises whose play you might be willing to "accept" and whose boards might be more harmonious.
- Der Kaiser

Being 29th wouldn't be a big deal to me if this wasn't 80% of our roster going forward.

It won't be as easy for Murray to make moves. We don't have the surplus of assets anymore.

And no, I don't need to go visit other boards or change what team I root for. You're one step from making an Xbox comment
Be better

This is why I find numbers interesting.

Note, not top player. Only a top playing in improving his teammates possession. In no world would I take Weber over Eichel, but we should commend Weber for playing well this season (relative to his talent) in his third pairing role as far as possession is concerned
- MattFreaknEllis

These are also, for the most part, against the weakest competition. He's doing well against them which is good but Im not going to be rushing to hand him an extension.

These are also, for the most part, against the weakest competition. He's doing well against them which is good but Im not going to be rushing to hand him an extension.
- Sabresfan-365

Yes.

I won't speak for others but I never believed that. They're both "puck on my stick always" players which makes it a bad combo. It's why I love the Girgs-Eichel duo.

Edit: I wasn't the only one though, just can't remember who specifically.
- Sabresfan-365

I never did either.