Being 29th wouldn't be a big deal to me if this wasn't 80% of our roster going forward.

It won't be as easy for Murray to make moves. We don't have the surplus of assets anymore.

And no, I don't need to go visit other boards or change what team I root for. You're one step from making an Xbox comment
Be better
- sbroads24

We also have 5 players in our top 6/top4 that are all 22 or under and improving.

edit: this is without including Pysyk, who is 23

We also have 5 players in our top 6/top4 that are all 22 or under and improving.
- MattFreaknEllis

Yes very true. Again, I'm not saying we won't be good. I just have doubts as to how good.

Most of those players are already playing at a high level

Until I watched him play regularly, I thought even O'Reilly was a supporting player to the 4 young guys I mentioned above and not a key piece.
- kingcong39

Thats another thing. Murray knew what he was getting in O'Reilly and promptly extended him without him having to lace skates up for us.
Thats a plus for Murray in my book.
#halffullguy

How good are we if murray doesnt make any trades broads? Assemble that roster and compare.

For Goose, myself, and others: the only expectation or hope for on ice performance this season was entirely tied to two things. Having entertaining hockey to watch again and watching the key young players grow and improve.

I don't understand the difference with being in 20th versus 28th or 29th overall.

I'd rather have them lose every single close game and finish with a top 5 pick when it's the most beneficial thing long term to the team's success.
- kingcong39

I'm in that group.

How good are we if murray doesnt make any trades broads? Assemble that roster and compare.
- lung3r

Not much worse.

Lehner-No impact
Kane-Good posession, bad scoring
Bogosian-Bad
O'Reilly- Great
McGinn-Solid

I'd say we would be repping 30th place. But I also never said no trades should have been made

Being 29th wouldn't be a big deal to me if this wasn't 80% of our roster going forward.

It won't be as easy for Murray to make moves. We don't have the surplus of assets anymore.

And no, I don't need to go visit other boards or change what team I root for. You're one step from making an Xbox comment
Be better
- sbroads24

Who are the fixtures> Risto, ROR, Jack, Rhino, ...these are locks.

All the rest, while not exactly the Cup Champion team we all want, are either here for the "long" haul or will garner something in return if they are moved. These untouchables account for less than 20% of a roster.

Let's use your phrase to settle it. The pieces were acquired for "future cup runs" not for a cup run this year. So if we're 29 today - and btw I still believe there's a hot streak that will take us far higher - that doesn't compel either the conclusion that A) we're not better or B) we're not closer to the future cup run.

And if that is "unacceptable" as you and 19 keep repeating, there are 29 other franchises whose play you might be willing to "accept" and whose boards might be more harmonious.
- Der Kaiser

I don't want the other teams to be that brand of acceptable. I want this team to be that brand of acceptable.

It can be quite frustrating how reluctant this fanbase is to demand greatness.

Who are the fixtures> Risto, ROR, Jack, Rhino, ...these are locks.

All the rest, while not exactly the Cup Champion team we all want, are either here for the "long" haul or will garner something in return if they are moved. These untouchables account for less than 20% of a roster.
- LandlordTom

Zemgus feels left out Tom.

Not much worse.

Lehner-No impact
Kane-Good posession, bad scoring
Bogosian-Bad
O'Reilly- Great
McGinn-Solid

I'd say we would be repping 30th place. But I also never said no trades should have been made
- sbroads24

I agree that Bogo is not the key piece we hoped for . He's shaky at reading fast plays and misses open players in front of the net. He's not getting us points in offense, but aside from Risto (and not lately) who else has? He does not kill us with dumb penalties, as Gorges often does, his outlets are ok, His skating is ok, but so far he's not impressed.
Bogo at least brings some snarl which is missing except from weber. Seems like a solid locker room guy which is needed.

Zemgus feels left out Tom.
- RhinoFan

I'd be crushed if he was dealt. I hope he is part of our long term core. Jeez, he's only 21-22 yo?

I agree that Bogo is not the key piece we hoped for . He's shaky at reading fast plays and misses open players in front of the net. He's not getting us points in offense, but aside from Risto (and not lately) who else has? He does not kill us with dumb penalties, as Gorges often does, his outlets are ok, His skating is ok, but so far he's not impressed.
Bogo at least brings some snarl which is missing except from weber. Seems like a solid locker room guy which is needed.
- LandlordTom

Bogosian I think can and will be a little better. But just not a key cog IMO. And we got him at 5.8 mil for what 5 years?

I'd be crushed if he was dealt. I hope he is part of our long term core. Jeez, he's only 21-22 yo?
- LandlordTom

Yeah he should be, one of those heart and soul guys. Plus him telling his Latvian fans not to vote for him to go to the All Star game this year because he "hasn't earned it yet" speaks volumes to me. Who doesn't need someone to eat a lion from time to time?

Being 29th wouldn't be a big deal to me if this wasn't 80% of our roster going forward.

It won't be as easy for Murray to make moves. We don't have the surplus of assets anymore.

And no, I don't need to go visit other boards or change what team I root for. You're one step from making an Xbox comment
Be better
- sbroads24

You forget I'm old and don't even know what an Xbox comment is.

But as far as rooting for the Sabres, I look at a team in a tightly packed East, with lots of first year players, a career backup goalie, a new coach and system, and many lost games we came close to winning.

I see the same questions as you: the way I root believes that all those questions will have good answers. You root how you see fit, but if questions bother you this much, I'm not sure it's me that needs to be better.

Bogosian I think can and will be a little better. But just not a key cog IMO. And we got him at 5.8 mil for what 5 years?
- sbroads24

If he settles in as our 3/4and a steady, long term fixture, I'll be happy. Risto is yet to be paid and I don't see our second yet. I do think Pysyk is the other 3/4 guy long term. His IQ more than makes up for Bogo's lack of it.

You forget I'm old and don't even know what an Xbox comment is.

But as far as rooting for the Sabres, I look at a team in a tightly packed East, with lots of first year players, a career backup goalie, a new coach and system, and many lost games we came close to winning.

I see the same questions as you: the way I root believes that all those questions will have good answers. You root how you see fit, but if questions bother you this much, I'm not sure it's me that needs to be better.
- Der Kaiser

I think some of them will.

I see no issue with viewing a 29th place team as unacceptable. I have never once called for Murray to be fired, Bylsma to be canned, or Kane to be traded. I just always will believe that this was done too quickly. I still want them to win, and if I didn't care, wouldn't be here

I don't want the other teams to be that brand of acceptable. I want this team to be that brand of acceptable.

It can be quite frustrating how reluctant this fanbase is to demand greatness.
- buffalofan19

Why do you keep saying this. Has anyone ever said "Oh, good the team got a few nice trades and moved up to 29. Nothing more to look forward to here."

It's facile, and misrepresents the fan base to fit your own narrative.

I think some of them will.

I see no issue with viewing a 29th place team as unacceptable. I have never once called for Murray to be fired, Bylsma to be canned, or Kane to be traded. I just always will believe that this was done too quickly. I still want them to win, and if I didn't care, wouldn't be here
- sbroads24

I give up. Now it's bad that we got better too fast.

And see above re "acceptable."

I'm going to take the pieces one by one, and see if I can't understand this fully. Murray made four major trades I see as the subject of the hate posts in these threads.

1. ROR/McGinn for Grigo/Zads/Compher/2016#31 (Jeremy Roy)
I think the consensus on this trade is Buffalo win. If there's a question, I haven't heard much about it.

2. Kane/Bogo/Kasdorf for Myers/Stafford/Armia/Lemieux/2015#25 (Jack Roslovic)
I think in most people's minds, this trade is close to a draw. Bogo and Kane are both under contract. Stafford was UFA, and the "potential" aspect of the deal is yet to be realized by either team. Hard to call a winner or a loser.

3. Lehner/Legwand for 2015#21 (Colin White)
This is the one everybody blows up, but I really don't get it. I think the frequent complaint is that Lehner hasn't finished a single game in the NHL since the trade, but Colin White hasn't either. He may be great, but today Jonathan Drouin, a #3 overall, is still playing in the NHL, and Broads tells us all the time and Kane and Bogo are both busts, so why is the uncertainty over Lehner any more unsettling than the uncertainty around a #21? And Legwand is giving us games in the NHL, if nothing else.

4. DLo/Fasching for McNabb, Parker and 2 seconds.
McNabb probably has an edge of DLo as an NHLer, but Parker is a 24yrold in the ECHL, and I don't know about the two seconds. Fasching is a PPG guy at UMinnesota and a regular on the USA Jrs.

A win, two draws, and perhaps a slight loss. But everyone of them gave us NHL talent now. Overall, I hear the "we have no prospects" complaint as saying "Murray doesn't have the ammunition to pull of a FIFTH blockbuster for in 24 months for even more NHL talent." First, none of us knows whether that's true; and second, even if it is, do we care?
- Der Kaiser[/quoo
How about the Miller trade? What did that turn into for us?

I give up. Now it's bad that we got better too fast.

And see above re "acceptable."
- Der Kaiser

Jesus Christ.

[quote=Der Kaiser]I'm going to take the pieces one by one, and see if I can't understand this fully. Murray made four major trades I see as the subject of the hate posts in these threads.

1. ROR/McGinn for Grigo/Zads/Compher/2016#31 (Jeremy Roy)
I think the consensus on this trade is Buffalo win. If there's a question, I haven't heard much about it.

2. Kane/Bogo/Kasdorf for Myers/Stafford/Armia/Lemieux/2015#25 (Jack Roslovic)
I think in most people's minds, this trade is close to a draw. Bogo and Kane are both under contract. Stafford was UFA, and the "potential" aspect of the deal is yet to be realized by either team. Hard to call a winner or a loser.

3. Lehner/Legwand for 2015#21 (Colin White)
This is the one everybody blows up, but I really don't get it. I think the frequent complaint is that Lehner hasn't finished a single game in the NHL since the trade, but Colin White hasn't either. He may be great, but today Jonathan Drouin, a #3 overall, is still playing in the NHL, and Broads tells us all the time and Kane and Bogo are both busts, so why is the uncertainty over Lehner any more unsettling than the uncertainty around a #21? And Legwand is giving us games in the NHL, if nothing else.

4. DLo/Fasching for McNabb, Parker and 2 seconds.
McNabb probably has an edge of DLo as an NHLer, but Parker is a 24yrold in the ECHL, and I don't know about the two seconds. Fasching is a PPG guy at UMinnesota and a regular on the USA Jrs.

A win, two draws, and perhaps a slight loss. But everyone of them gave us NHL talent now. Overall, I hear the "we have no prospects" complaint as saying "Murray doesn't have the ammunition to pull of a FIFTH blockbuster for in 24 months for even more NHL talent." First, none of us knows whether that's true; and second, even if it is, do we care?
- turbo044[/quoo
How about the Miller trade? What did that turn into for us?

[quote=Der Kaiser]
No. I don't hear that. I hear "the team made a few trades, gave up a lot of assets, and they're still only in 29th place, but that's okay." That, to me, isn't a winning mentality. The point isn't just that they're in 29th place. It's that they made trades to improve a certain area of the team, and that area is still the team's weakest and it's not even close.

I give up. Now it's bad that we got better too fast.

And see above re "acceptable."
- Der Kaiser

I'll end this saying for the 50th time

Evander Kane and Robin Lehner weren't once in a lifetime players. Murray didn't have to trade for them specifically.

Other top 6 forwards/goalies/defenseman are traded for every year

I'll end this saying for the 50th time

Evander Kane and Robin Lehner weren't once in a lifetime players. Murray didn't have to trade for them specifically.

Other top 6 forwards/goalies/defenseman are traded for every year
- sbroads24

So there we have it - it's still really just female doging about the trades.

No. I don't hear that. I hear "the team made a few trades, gave up a lot of assets, and they're still only in 29th place, but that's okay." That, to me, isn't a winning mentality. The point isn't just that they're in 29th place. It's that they made trades to improve a certain area of the team, and that area is still the team's weakest and it's not even close.
- buffalofan19

Who says it's okay if we're done? Who's not expecting more?