Exactly. The good thing about prospects is that they always make more of them
- AllInForFlyers

Pretty sure this line is on a poster inside of Homer's office.

I was the one who originally brought up Sanhiem as Tampa's probable trade target. You have to give to get. Face it, on almost any other team Drouin would be logging big minutes and he never gets flustered.

I'm still for it. If theymove Streit they'll head into this draft with two firsts to address the loss of Sanhiem.
- hereticpride

I'd be suprised if the Flyers can get a first for Streit.

Hey Bill, fellow Flyer fans and stragglers.

What do you think of this trade proposal?

Tampa trades Matt Carle to Philly for AMac or Lecavalier (500k retained on either)

To me this helps both teams. Tampa gets cap space and Philly loses either a longer contract or a useless player. The trade would void Vinny's NMC would it not? He could be demoted for the extra 950k or they can get an equal player in AMac and save a million in cap space.
- xShoot4WarAmpsx

TB would never agree to it.

Matt Carle has done nothing this season and yet I would trade Mark Streit, RJ Umberger or Andrew MacDonald for him.

Exactly. The good thing about prospects is that they always make more of them
- AllInForFlyers

Is Drouin so unique that there won't be another prospect that the Flyers can get that is similar. That's a two way street. There is also development time to consider.

Pretty sure this line is on a poster inside of Homer's office.
- Mononoke

Ha! Yeah. Hell, look at the Promger deal...Sbisa's been moved, Etem was one of the picks and he's been moved, Lupul was moved...Pronger is long since gone.

You either make moves or you don't. All the hand-wringing over prospects ignores the fact that you can win any number of ways, and successful teams use all avenues available to them to do so

Chicago doesn't win without Hossa and Brian Campbell, when they beat the Flyers. They had traded for Andrew Ladd and Kris Versteeg. It's a lie when people say you can only win by drafting. It's simply not true

You either make moves or you don't

There is a lot of money coming off the books the next two summers. Would you buyout Umberger this summer or the next? I'm hoping we can trade him for half off his cap hit.
- SuperSchennBros

Umberger only has one year left after this season.

I'd be suprised if the Flyers can get a first for Streit.
- MJL

If he didn't get hurt, I wouldn't be. He had a solid offensive season last year and a great start to this season before he went down. The injury complicates things.

TB would never agree to it.
- MJL

Why not? Carle is not any better than AMac and it would save them cap space. Lecavalier one is a longshot but that is the only way he'd leave. AMac will be with the team next season anyways if not dealt. We have a surprising amount of cap room to play with.

Umberger only has one year left after this season.
- MJL

I didn't properly word it. Would you buy him out this summer or wait his deal out?

Umberger only has one year left after this season.
- MJL

Yea might as well wait that one out. Vinny can be considered but not really worth it. Better to deal with the 3 extra years then carry the problem out longer and affect the contending team with the D prospects up

I didn't properly word it. Would you buy him out this summer or wait his deal out?
- SuperSchennBros

Wait it out. Same with Lecavalier. The only way I would consider buying out, is if the cap space was needed to make a trade that I couldn't turn down. Otherwise, I let both deals play out.

Why not? Carle is not any better than AMac and it would save them cap space. Lecavalier one is a longshot but that is the only way he'd leave. AMac will be with the team next season anyways if not dealt. We have a surprising amount of cap room to play with.
- xShoot4WarAmpsx

MacDonald has 4 years left on his deal after this season. Carle only has two. TB is going to take on two extra years to save 500K in cap space?

Does anyone remember who Chicago traded to get Andrew Ladd?

It was Tuomo Ruutu. A former top 10 pick who, IIRC, was once said to be the best player outside of the NHL and was possibly the top prospect on the Hockey News's Top 50, or close to it -- I would have to do some digging to confirm his rating, so don't quote me on that.

But it wound up being that Ruutu wasn't that great, Ladd helped Chicago win and then he got moved.

That's just the way it is

Wait it out. Same with Lecavalier. The only way I would consider buying out, is if the cap space was needed to make a trade that I couldn't turn down. Otherwise, I let both deals play out.
- MJL

I'd push hard to trade Umberger and take salary back.

Ha! Yeah. Hell, look at the Promger deal...Sbisa's been moved, Etem was one of the picks and he's been moved, Lupul was moved...Pronger is long since gone.

You either make moves or you don't. All the hand-wringing over prospects ignores the fact that you can win any number of ways, and successful teams use all avenues available to them to do so

Chicago doesn't win without Hossa and Brian Campbell, when they beat the Flyers. They had traded for Andrew Ladd and Kris Versteeg. It's a lie when people say you can only win by drafting. It's simply not true

You either make moves or you don't
- AllInForFlyers

Deciding to include Sanheim in a trade has nothing to do with whether a player can be traded, or anything to do with what players had been traded in past history. It's simply about what is best for the Flyers future. This team's achillies heel is it's defense, and not being able to draft and develop defenseman. Now we should trade one of the team's top defense prospects because there is a shiny new toy available possibly?

Does anyone remember who Chicago traded to get Andrew Ladd?

It was Tuomo Ruutu. A former top 10 pick who, IIRC, was once said to be the best player outside of the NHL and was possibly the top prospect on the Hockey News's Top 50, or close to it -- I would have to do some digging to confirm his rating, so don't quote me on that.

But it wound up being that Ruutu wasn't that great, Ladd helped Chicago win and then he got moved.

That's just the way it is
- AllInForFlyers

Honestly, what does this have to do with anything?

Deciding to include Sanheim in a trade has nothing to do with whether a player can be traded, or anything to do with what players had been traded in past history. It's simply about what is best for the Flyers future. This team's achillies heel is it's defense, and not being able to draft and develop defenseman. Now we should trade one of the team's top defense prospects because there is a shiny new toy available possibly?
- MJL

He's not a shiny new toy. You don't have any LWs either. He was a highly rated prospect who has actually produced in the NHL and is 20 years old.

You can like Sanheim. But trying to diminish a guy who has actually cracked an NHL lineup and produced a 30-point season at age 19 is simply petty and ignores the honest reality that Travis Sanheim is still a junior player who no one knows -- absolutely no one -- is ever going to even be a regular.

Honestly, what does this have to do with anything?
- MJL

Overrating prospects is fool's gold. There's moves you make, moves you don't. But there's no reason to not move a player just because you think he's going to be something that he hasn't accomplished.

You can choose to not do it. But saying that you can't trade Sanheim because of what he might do is silly.

He's not a shiny new toy. You don't have any LWs either. He was a highly rated prospect who has actually produced in the NHL and is 20 years old.

You can like Sanheim. But trying to diminish a guy who has actually cracked an NHL lineup and produced a 30-point season at age 19 is simply petty and ignores the honest reality that Travis Sanheim is still a junior player who no one knows -- absolutely no one -- is ever going to even be a regular.
- AllInForFlyers

Misses the point. In terms of why it's even being discussed, is because he is the symbolic shiny new toy. What's also missing from your point is the possibility that Drouin could be a "Ruutu"

Overrating prospects is fool's gold. There's moves you make, moves you don't. But there's no reason to not move a player just because you think he's going to be something that he hasn't accomplished.

You can choose to not do it. But saying that you can't trade Sanheim because of what he might do is silly.
- AllInForFlyers

Your doing the same exact thing. How do you know your not overrating Drouin and chasing fool's gold? Your willing to trade for Drouin because of what he might do.
You're also not understanding why I'm reluctant to trade Sanheim. It's more about hedging bets.

Misses the point. In terms of why it's even being discussed, is because he is the symbolic shiny new toy. What's also missing from your point is the possibility that Drouin could be a "Ruutu"
- MJL

No, MJL. I didn't miss the point. I'm saying that you can either make the move or not. But there's no guarantee either way.

Trying to diminish or overstate what one guy is or isn't doesn't change that

I'd push hard to trade Umberger and take salary back.
- SuperSchennBros

He is not resembling much of an NHL player this year.

No, MJL. I didn't miss the point. I'm saying that you can either make the move or not. But there's no guarantee either way.

Trying to diminish or overstate what one guy is or isn't doesn't change that
- AllInForFlyers

Focus on why to make the move, and the reasoning behind it. That's what matters. You're obviously willing to include Sanheim in the deal, why? That answer will reveal the truth.
Are we discussing the merits of trading for Drouin and for what cost, or are we just debating that players can be traded?

Your doing the same exact thing. How do you know your not overrating Drouin and chasing fool's gold? Your willing to trade for Drouin because of what he might do.
You're also not understanding why I'm reluctant to trade Sanheim. It's more about hedging bets.
- MJL

No. I do understand. You prefer Samheim because of the position he plays and the fact that the Flyers don't have top three defensemen and you prefer to have as many potential candidates as possible.

And there is not a single thing wrong with that. At all.

But I am not overrating Drouin. He's already cracked the NHL, put up points. He's developing, just like Sanheim is. He plays a position the Flyers don't have, is 20 years old, and I am simply more comfortable moving Sanheim, with Ghost, Provorov and Morin developing.

It's not any more complex than that. It's not rocket science