There's a surprising amount of disappointment in people's voices when I hear them talk about the Sabres this season. Are people really surprised by the results at the "halfway point"?

- OnPoint

I think many really did. They went from one of the worst offences in history to adding ror, Kane and an 18 year old. I can recall speaking to some fans and it was like they had just acquired superstars kopitar and benn, instead of just two solid top 6'ers.
I can also recall trying to talk some sense into a couple guys that were surmising if Tim Murray should be considered in the conversation for "best gm in the game"!!!before a game had been played this year.
No joke.


Just saying Never underestimate what hope and delusion because of shiny new toys can do to the fans. Not meant as a troll at all, just saying as an oiler fan, I've seen it. The Sabres are in the right path, but are still one of the leagues worst.

- Zschalberg

Close, but

Youre right it is. Again, it's not that they are losing, it's how, and what they are struggling with, and the questions that remain unanswered.

Eichel has 12 points in 8 games, his production can't get too much better than it is now, and this team outside of him and O'Reilly cannot score.

I like a lot of this team. Even though I rip on Kane, I like his game some nights. Other nights he is out to lunch.

Getting star players is one thing, and its great we are in line for a top 5 pick. But as you see with Colorado or Edmonton, just those players aren't enough.

I was convinced that with guys like Compher, Lemieux, Fasching, Armia, Zadorov, the 21st,25th pick etc, that we were going to have an amazing supporting cast for Eichel and Reinhart. Right now that is not the case at all.

We have turned into a top heavy team that cannot score
- sbroads24

And that's fine for now if you ask me. I feel like it's a lot easier to find those secondary scoring guys than it is to find those core guys. The model is Chicago. They've drafted and developed well, both in the top 6 and in their bottom 6. We need to do the same. If we have most of the top 6 set we can start to worry about the bottom 6 in Free Agency, trades, and most importantly, developing.

I'd rather be a top heavy team with a good top 6 that needs secondary scoring that the other way around.

True story, of goalies that have 15+ games played, Reimer is #1 in sv% and #3 in GAA. (.936 and 1.96)
- HonkFortheGoose

Right but 40 games in most stats are only looked at with guys who have played 20+ which is why i went with Bernier stats. .896 sv% and 3.09 GAA

I think many really did. They went from one of the worst offences in history to adding ror, Kane and an 18 year old. I can recall speaking to some fans and it was like they had just acquired superstars kopitar and Nash, instead of just two solid top 6'ers.
I can also recall trying to talk some sense into a couple guys that were surmising if Tim Murray should be considered in the conversation for "best gm in the game"!!!
No joke.


Just saying Never underestimate what hope and delusion because of shiny new toys can do to the fans. Not meant as a troll at all, just saying as an oiler fan, I've seen it. The Sabres are in the right path, but are still one of the leagues worst.
- HB77

This guy. Went from historically bad to just bad. That's a step. Next year we need to take that next step.

And that's fine for now if you ask me. I feel like it's a lot easier to find those secondary scoring guys than it is to find those core guys. The model is Chicago. They've drafted and developed well, both in the top 6 and in their bottom 6. We need to do the same. If we have most of the top 6 set we can start to worry about the bottom 6 in Free Agency, trades, and most importantly, developing.

I'd rather be a top heavy team with a good top 6 that needs secondary scoring that the other way around.
- Zschalberg

Last negative thing I'll say for now, I feel for what Murray traded away, he didn't find enough core guys.

Is goaltending not the most up and down, gamble, craps shoot position in the entire league? Murray went with a guy he scouted and believes will be good. He knows him better than other goalies and likes what he saw.

I can't imagine we fire him based on the performance of one guy. Yes, we traded for him, I still don't think if Lehner comes out here and has the same numbers as Johnson does right now at the end of the season that TM is gone.
- Zschalberg

People need to just settle down. Ready for some more stats? Of the guys people wanted us to trade for, here are their numbers:

Martin Jones 2.52 GAA .910 sv%
Cam Talbot 2.76 GAA .910 sv%
Eddie Lack 2.96 GAA .892 sv%

and now the guys that have been in our net this year:

Johnson 2.48 GAA .914 sv%
Ullmark 2.66 GAA .910 sv%

So if Lehner comes in and plays at the same rate at Johnson, he's doing better than all 3 of the goalies that people wanted us to trade for.

Here's another guy that supports my theory:

Kari Ramo. He was a TRAINWRECK at the start of the season and has now, which regular playing time, managed to get his numbers into a respectable area.

To expect Lehner to play a handful of minutes during the preseason after being concussed for 3 months and not playing since February is laughable.

But, you played the position, so that means you're the authority.....
- HonkFortheGoose

Again, I did not say that you were wrong.
I said it differs from man to man (goalie to goalie) is all.
Some come in cold off of the bench and haven't played for weeks and steal their teams hockey games.
Depends on the goalie.

Youre right it is. Again, it's not that they are losing, it's how, and what they are struggling with, and the questions that remain unanswered.

Eichel has 12 points in 8 games, his production can't get too much better than it is now, and this team outside of him and O'Reilly cannot score.

I like a lot of this team. Even though I rip on Kane, I like his game some nights. Other nights he is out to lunch.

Getting star players is one thing, and its great we are in line for a top 5 pick. But as you see with Colorado or Edmonton, just those players aren't enough.

I was convinced that with guys like Compher, Lemieux, Fasching, Armia, Zadorov, the 21st,25th pick etc, that we were going to have an amazing supporting cast for Eichel and Reinhart. Right now that is not the case at all.

We have turned into a top heavy team that cannot score
- sbroads24

That is where you and I have always differed sir.

I was hopeful, but far from convinced regarding the supporting cast and what they had in their system.

If O'Reilly was the only move Murray made and he did not make the Jets or Lehner moves, I think there would be a lot less issue with him from many here.

Right but 40 games in most stats are only looked at with guys who have played 20+ which is why i went with Bernier stats. .896 sv% and 3.09 GAA
- CoHo_to_B-Lo

I filtered based on 15+ because of Ullmark.

That is where you and I have always differed sir.

I was hopeful, but far from convinced regarding the supporting cast and what they had in their system.

If O'Reilly was the only move Murray made and he did not make the Jets or Lehner moves, I think there would be a lot less issue with him from many here.
- kingcong39

Absolutely.

Each trade (although the Jets one IMO looks very sub par) makes sense individually.

Collectively in one offseason seems like this was being rushed.

There's a surprising amount of disappointment in people's voices when I hear them talk about the Sabres this season. Are people really surprised by the results at the "halfway point"?

Our "number 1" goaltender was hurt before he could really show us what he's got. The team is full of washed up vets here for teaching purposes (ex: Gionta), young kids trying to learn what it is to play in this league (ex: Eichel), and also-rans/roleplayers who aren't really all that good (ex: Moulson). The good players (Kane and O'Reilly) are too few to make a real difference. It's a recipe for disaster and dinner is served.

I feel like we've got solid building blocks in the young kids to make something special over the next couple seasons, and it's up to Murray to surround them with proper vets/established players to season them (this season) and then play well with them (next season and the one after). None of this should be so unexpected that people are disappointed.

I feel like I'm stating the obvious. But if that's true, then why are so many people so let down? Did people really lose sight of the fact that this was never going to be a "winning" year?

I don't want to tell anyone how to experience a hockey season, but for me, it's enjoyable that they're more exciting to watch and playing like they actually give a damn, even if they're losing. As they grow and get better, and the proper roster moves are made, the wins will come.

Just enjoy the ride and hope beyond hope that this year we get the first overall pick.
- OnPoint

Couldn't agree more.

Games are at least entertaining to watch for the most part and that's what i've missed from the prior 2 seasons. Sure I would love to watch them in the post season and I know a lot were hoping for a quick turn around the likes of what we saw from Calgary and the Avs the past few seasons, but look at those teams now, they still weren't quite ready to be consistently good.

I'm ok with the team trying their best but maybe having a lottery team this season and getting one more good low pick (heck, maybe when we don't finish dead last is when we get Mathews) that will set the stage for having a playoff contending team for years to come.

Last negative thing I'll say for now, I feel for what Murray traded away, he didn't find enough core guys.
- sbroads24

I'll disagree. I don't think we had a core guy on our team. Vanek would be the one, and he proved when he was the go to guy and the core guy that it didn't work. Vanek is great as that secondary scoring. If we still had him it'd be great, but for what we got with him I'd say we had to do it. Plus, just remembered, that was Darcy's trade.

Murray traded Miller, who was gone at the end of the year, Myers who could have grown to be great but needed a change in scenery. Had we kept Myers I wouldn't have been terribly upset but I did feel it was time to move him.

Zads had his issues. Compher, Armia, Lemiux are all prospects and Armia has taken 5ever to get his game translated into the NHL.

All these guys, to me, are good players. Some are pretty good players. But I wouldn't want them to be my core players. I'd rather have ROR, Eichel, Sam, Girgensons as my core. That's just me.

Last negative thing I'll say for now, I feel for what Murray traded away, he didn't find enough core guys.
- sbroads24

Define "core"? What core guys got traded away/for that causes a loss in that calculation

All these guys, to me, are good players. Some are pretty good players. But I wouldn't want them to be my core players. I'd rather have ROR, Eichel, Sam, Girgensons as my core. That's just me.
- Zschalberg

serious question, if girgens was packaged with player x for a top 6 winger (drouin/eberle etc)

and legwand moved up to 3rd line center, would the product be better on the ice?


I am not saying that murray SHOULD trade girgens, just starting a conversation

Define "core"? What core guys got traded away/for that causes a loss in that calculation
- stashu

O'Reilly = Core
Kane=??
Lehner=??
Bogosian=??

Just my opinion

Absolutely.

Each trade (although the Jets one IMO looks very sub par) makes sense individually.

Collectively in one offseason seems like this was being rushed.
- sbroads24

There is no way to ever confirm this, but I feel like Murray made the move with the Jets because he felt the team was not going to finish last overall, and by making that move, he was able to remove two of the more productive players from the team for one player and another that was out for the season.

Getting rid of Myers was likely a bonus to him as I think he didn't like his style of play.

serious question, if girgens was packaged with player x for a top 6 winger (drouin/eberle etc)

and legwand moved up to 3rd line center, would the product be better on the ice?


I am not saying that murray SHOULD trade girgens, just starting a conversation
- homiedclown

I would do it. I like Girgensons, and like who he is. I'd want it to be a western team and I'd want it to be a top 3, not a top 6 player. It's overvaluing him because I do value him on the team. I think he's got intangibles that are really hard to find and we have him.

I would do the deal.

O'Reilly = Core
Kane=??
Lehner=??
Bogosian=??

Just my opinion
- sbroads24

OK, but what pieces of the "core" did they let go of? So far it's a +1 gain

flynn, stewart, myers, benoit, mitchell, staff, zadorov, meszaros leave

kane, ror, eichel, skunk, mcginn, franson, legwand, colaiacovo, bogo are plugged in


this team is 29th instead of 30th in the standngs

serious question, if girgens was packaged with player x for a top 6 winger (drouin/eberle etc)

and legwand moved up to 3rd line center, would the product be better on the ice?

I am not saying that murray SHOULD trade girgens, just starting a conversation
- homiedclown

Sure, it might look better for this season, but I am not sure that is the best move for the long term.

Staying the course for this season, drafting highly, getting an impact player at the draft, and then trying to trade for player X would be my course of action were I Murray.

O'Reilly = Core
Kane=??
Lehner=??
Bogosian=??

Just my opinion
- sbroads24

If Myers was core and O'Reilly is core then I think we had an even swap in those deals.

I would do it. I like Girgensons, and like who he is. I'd want it to be a western team and I'd want it to be a top 3, not a top 6 player. It's overvaluing him because I do value him on the team. I think he's got intangibles that are really hard to find and we have him.

I would do the deal.
- Zschalberg

I just think if girgens is going to be slotted on the third line, this may be the time to package him for a player with more upside, first line potential

flynn, stewart, myers, benoit, mitchell, staff, zadorov, meszaros leave

kane, ror, eichel, skunk, mcginn, franson, legwand, colaiacovo, bogo are plugged in


this team is 29th instead of 30th in the standngs
- homiedclown

So at this rate we'll be in the playoffs in 13 years.

Like others have said, let's get through the year before we're too worried.