hes a solid 3rd pairing Dman, smart and moves the puck well. But Roy likes his foot soliders like Stuart and Guenin in that role.
- DDM-Coga

while we all say this about certain players on our favorite teams, if he was what you think he is don't you think some team would have given up a lousy 7th rd pick for him? teams are hurting for Dman. someone surely would have taken a shot no?

i would say he won the Kovy trade (initially), but "didn't give up anything" isn't quite true...aside from the no name players that were swapped, he gave up a First and Oduya.....and then not only did he lose Kovy for nothing 3 seasons later, but also were fined $3M, lost a 1st and a 3rd!!

Like i said, prior to 2005, sure he was pretty keen, picking up Parise and Zajac in pick swaps....but since then he's done absolutely nothing extraordinary.
- nikel

oduya and a 1st was well worth the price for a trip to a cup finals imo

i agree on the signing players. i see kovalchuk as among a few questionable/bad signings he made in his last years in NJ.

I think if you add the ROR and Myers trades together, the Sabres still come out ahead, but that deal with OTT was was way to cute. The Sabres weren't going anywhere this year regardless. Just being competitive (which they now are) should have been the goal.

Is that pick they traded for Lehner protected at all?
- Snowblind

No, it was a 15' pick that turned into Colin White

Nope - not thinking a grinder at all, I'm thinking of a Jordan Staal or Jared Stoll kinda guy, someone who's very good on the dot, very good on the PK, but can still contribute offensively etc.

I just think you're (a GM/coach not you) undervaluing RNH if you stick him on a third line and you're paying him 6 million dollars. He's a top six guy, just my opinion but I think it's good asset management to trade him for a weakness in other areas….especially given his salary in a cap world.
- LeftCoaster

Agreed, you can find a competent and skilled 3rd line centre to do all those things while also filling in a hole you desperately need. Having RNH play the 3rd line isn't bad, in fact every team would love to have that problem, but having it at the cost of a top pairing defence is counter productive.

while we all say this about certain players on our favorite teams, if he was what you think he is don't you think some team would have given up a lousy 7th rd pick for him? teams are hurting for Dman. someone surely would have taken a shot no?
- rinaldo

I dont think he gets through waivers, and he would trade value if moved. Hes a good Dman, just Roy is legit playing plugs over him.

Thats one of Roys biggest negatives about him as a coach, he likes to play those bottom rung guys in Roles that are over their heads, he "rewards" playing hard with that kind of crap

You can't assume that they will have to trade Marner at that point because:

1- Nobody knows where the Canadian dollar and by extension the salary cap will be in 6 years
2 - Nobody knows what player perssonel decisions will be made between now and then
3 - Nobody knows what terrible or terrific contracts the Leafs will have at that point
4 - Nobody knows how exactly any of their prospects will pan out by then

There are far too many unknown variables in this equation to allow for such an assertion as the one made above. I know the math behind the reasoning regarding Stamkos' inevitable decline but that alone shouldn't preclude a rebuilding team who are already showing definite improvement in on ice play, prospect depth and organizational philosophy from acquiring a bonafide star centre who still has some very productive seasons remaining in his career even if he spends his twilight years being somewhat overpaid.
- BlueBallz

Probably means on the low-end, he'll be an over paid 25-goal/60 point guy at the end of his contract in toronto ... unless he has a vinny like decline.

edit: hey, i missed #3 the 1st time around. GFY. and the correct answer for terrible is Stamkos, after his vinny like decline.

I dont think he gets through waivers, and he would trade value if moved. Hes a good Dman, just Roy is legit playing plugs over him.

Thats one of Roys biggest negatives about him as a coach, he likes to play those bottom rung guys in Roles that are over their heads, he "rewards" playing hard with that kind of crap
- DDM-Coga

then if you think he has trade value don't you think the avs tried to move him instead of risk losing him for nothing?

The Jackets just made the trade the Oilers have need to make for about 4 years now.

then if you think he has trade value don't you think the avs tried to move him instead of risk losing him for nothing?
- rinaldo

I cant explain that, I dont think they want to lose him, Roy talks about how he thinks hes a godo player, but just want to give him more playing time in the AHL.

My thought is that they want to call up Duncan Siemens and Roy wont have both of them on the roster at the same time.

The Jackets just made the trade the Oilers have need to make for about 4 years now.
- Snowblind

after the isles made the 2 trades the year before

ARE YOU SERIOUSLY AGAINST SIGNING STEVEN (frank)ING STAMKOS IF HE COMES BANGING ON MLSE'S DOORS???

WHAT'S THE ALTERNATIVE? NOT SIGNING HIM? THINK ABOUT HOW CRAZY THAT IS.

GO GET YOUR PAIR OUT OF YOUR WIFE'S PURSE BEFORE RESPONDING TANNER

Probably means on the low-end, he'll be an over paid 25-goal/60 point guy at the end of his contract in toronto ... unless he has a vinny like decline.
- Tumbleweed

Quite possibly, yes. And if he is a major cog that helps the team make some deep playoff runs and helps bring some of the kids along by allowing them to play some more sheltered minutes early in their pro careers as well as being able to mentor them during their learning how to be professionals on and off the ice then it's money well spent.

Additionally, I think you mentioned it earlier that teams can find creative ways to manage their cap. Stamkos no longer effective and Leafs not particularly ccompetitive? Retain some salary and try to move him (NTC to consider I'm sure) to a contender looking for depth to make a deep run. It definitely isn't as simple as "Stamkos has already had his most offensively productive seasons therefor signing him now means you will be forced to trade Marner 6 years from now."

Quite possibly, yes. And if he is a major cog that helps the team make some deep playoff runs and helps bring some of the kids along by allowing them to play some more sheltered minutes early in their pro careers as well as being able to mentor them during their learning how to be professionals on and off the ice then it's money well spent.

Additionally, I think you mentioned it earlier that teams can find creative ways to manage their cap. Stamkos no longer effective and Leafs not particularly ccompetitive? Retain some salary and try to move him (NTC to consider I'm sure) to a contender looking for depth to make a deep run. It definitely isn't as simple as "Stamkos has already had his most offensively productive seasons therefor signing him now means you will be forced to trade Marner 6 years from now."
- BlueBallz

agreed.

and see my previous edit

grossman > gormley. fact.

Tanner please tell us all how gormley has got shafted once again.
- rinaldo

In two years doing this, you are the single most annoying person I have come across. Why do you even bother talking to me when you don't care to learn anything? You aren't open to changing your mind, so think what you want.

For any team with the cap space, there is no downside to signing Stamkos. The guy is 25-26 years old. He's a long way from Lecavalier territory. Plus the Leafs haven't had a legit 1st line center since about 2008, so there's that.

calling out GM's as chickens and than being afraid to sign stamkos??? c'mon man.

honestly, i was initially thinking the same thing; but i've come around.

the opportunity to acquire elite talent through free agency rarely (for some teams maybe never) comes around, and like you said, he'll only be 32 at contracts end.

not sure that it'll be so cut and dry as making a decision of stamkos vs. marner. a lot can happen between now and then. teams have proven to find a lot of creative solutions to cap dilemmas.

i also think this is a great time to bet on the canadian dollar. i see more upside potential than downside risk over the next few years. I think it is a smart risk to bet on the canadian dollar fueling some bigger cap increases. maybe not in the next year or 2, but beyond that.
- Tumbleweed

It's not a "risk" to sign Stamkos, it's a flat out terrible move. He's a 6 or 7 million dollar player with zero chance of returning any value on an 11 million dollar deal.

Nope - not thinking a grinder at all, I'm thinking of a Jordan Staal or Jared Stoll kinda guy, someone who's very good on the dot, very good on the PK, but can still contribute offensively etc.

I just think you're (a GM/coach not you) undervaluing RNH if you stick him on a third line and you're paying him 6 million dollars. He's a top six guy, just my opinion but I think it's good asset management to trade him for a weakness in other areas….especially given his salary in a cap world.
- LeftCoaster

Jordan Staal is one of the best allround players in the NHL, so I dunno what you're talking about. If you play RNH low, you get an edge. That's all you need to win.

You can't assume that they will have to trade Marner at that point because:

1- Nobody knows where the Canadian dollar and by extension the salary cap will be in 6 years
2 - Nobody knows what player perssonel decisions will be made between now and then
3 - Nobody knows what terrible or terrific contracts the Leafs will have at that point
4 - Nobody knows how exactly any of their prospects will pan out by then

There are far too many unknown variables in this equation to allow for such an assertion as the one made above. I know the math behind the reasoning regarding Stamkos' inevitable decline but that alone shouldn't preclude a rebuilding team who are already showing definite improvement in on ice play, prospect depth and organizational philosophy from acquiring a bonafide star centre who still has some very productive seasons remaining in his career even if he spends his twilight years being somewhat overpaid.
- BlueBallz

NOthing can change the fact that Stamkos is not - at age 25 - going to live up to a max contract in year one, let alone year seven. The Leafs signing Stamkos would be worse than the Kessel trade.

ARE YOU SERIOUSLY AGAINST SIGNING STEVEN (frank)ING STAMKOS IF HE COMES BANGING ON MLSE'S DOORS???

WHAT'S THE ALTERNATIVE? NOT SIGNING HIM? THINK ABOUT HOW CRAZY THAT IS.

GO GET YOUR PAIR OUT OF YOUR WIFE'S PURSE BEFORE RESPONDING TANNER
- Tumbleweed

In a salary cap, a UFA is not free. You're making a trade, whether its with the team the UFA came from or not.

This couldn't be any clearer and very few seem to get it.

NOthing can change the fact that Stamkos is not - at age 25 - going to live up to a max contract in year one, let alone year seven. The Leafs signing Stamkos would be worse than the Kessel trade.
- James_Tanner

I think he is somewhat overrated myself, but it's way too presumptuous to say Stamkos definitely won't be worth his deal. Maybe he takes a hometown discount and plays great for TOR. At the very least TOR should look into it.

For any team with the cap space, there is no downside to signing Stamkos. The guy is 25-26 years old. He's a long way from Lecavalier territory. Plus the Leafs haven't had a legit 1st line center since about 2008, so there's that.
- Snowblind

Except for the fact that Kadri has been miles better than Stamkos so far this year.

Weren't you one of those who blasted Sweeney last summer James?

Jordan Staal is one of the best allround players in the NHL, so I dunno what you're talking about. If you play RNH low, you get an edge. That's all you need to win.
- James_Tanner

I like J Staal. But here's a comfortable list of centers better all around than him in the Metro alone:
Crosby, Malkin, Brassard, Stepan, Tavares, Kuznetsov, Backstrom, Giroux. Kinda hard to be a great all around player when he is so limited offensively.

Except for the fact that Kadri has been miles better than Stamkos so far this year.
- James_Tanner

40 games, what a great sample.

Jordan Staal is one of the best allround players in the NHL, so I dunno what you're talking about. If you play RNH low, you get an edge. That's all you need to win.
- James_Tanner

As long as you're paying McDavid and Draisaitl on ELC's it's all good sure, but when they wanna get paid it makes no sense to be paying your third line center 6 million per. I guess I'm looking ahead and I'm considering the fact Oilers fans and best players for that matter have suffered for a looooooooooong time.

Trading RNH speeds up the process, or it potentially could.