So you're saying that, if the Penguins aren't going to win in the next 2 years, trading Malkin and Crosby would be the smart move??? Giroux is 1 year younger than Crosby, 2 than Malkin, and they could be a player in 3 years.
- jmatchett383

No doubt about it. If this roster healthy cannot make the playoffs, a full rebuild should absolutely be considered in the offseason. Doubt it will be though. Better to trade them two years too early than one year too late. I don't even think it is fair to top end players to have them waste their last few good years on mediocrity. Give them a chance to win something and get some good futures back. Giroux is only 5 months younger than Crosby too.

I would love nothing more than Hextall to throw a massive long term contract at Byfuglien. It would be the absolute worst thing the team could do. If he's smart he'll stay patient. Maybe even move Giroux who is gonna well past his prime by the time they are competing again.
- jfkst1

Moving G might not be a bad idea for the Fly Guys but Hextal should see how this offseason works out. Say they either land Matthews or put their new found cap space to really good use. All of a sudden their rebuild is excelerated. G might be past his prime by the time they're contending, but as long as he's still effective and a fringe 1st liner at least by the time they're making a cup push, you'd rather have Claude Giroux than not have Claud Giroux.

No doubt about it. If this roster healthy cannot make the playoffs, a full rebuild should absolutely be considered in the offseason. Doubt it will be though. Better to trade them two years too early than one year too late. I don't even think it is fair to top end players to have them waste their last few good years on mediocrity. Give them a chance to win something and get some good futures back. Giroux is only 5 months younger than Crosby too.
- jfkst1

Okay, I wasn't sure about the exact age difference, just know he was draft-eligible the year after Sid.

Still, the Penguins cannot trade Crosby. It may be the smart on-ice move, but they just can't. I know the whole, "If Wayne Gretzky can be traded..." but that was a different time and different circumstances. Sidney Crosby is the Penguins, the brand. Unless he comes out in his late 30's asking to go somewhere, they can't trade him. The hardcore fans would understand, but all of the casual fans/hangers-on would be outraged.

That said, as for the Flyers, Giroux should still have 5-6 good years (maybe not Hart level, but All-Star level) years and I am comfortable with him being the captain as the younger guys start coming in to make them more competitive again.

No doubt about it. If this roster healthy cannot make the playoffs, a full rebuild should absolutely be considered in the offseason. Doubt it will be though. Better to trade them two years too early than one year too late. I don't even think it is fair to top end players to have them waste their last few good years on mediocrity. Give them a chance to win something and get some good futures back. Giroux is only 5 months younger than Crosby too.
- jfkst1

Not sure if you've ever done something/anything, with a group of people for a long time. Loyalty to a team & to other players you love playing with is sometimes more important than leaving & going somewhere where the results are no better but you are playing with strangers.

These core guys have already won & I think people here are missing the part where players love playing with friends, & would rather go through the rough trots & get out of them together, than leave & go somewhere else.

Sid & Geno signed lower than market value to play together & try & win together. :thumbsupsomething that they can still do!!).

Okay, I wasn't sure about the exact age difference, just know he was draft-eligible the year after Sid.

Still, the Penguins cannot trade Crosby. It may be the smart on-ice move, but they just can't. I know the whole, "If Wayne Gretzky can be traded..." but that was a different time and different circumstances. Sidney Crosby is the Penguins, the brand. Unless he comes out in his late 30's asking to go somewhere, they can't trade him. The hardcore fans would understand, but all of the casual fans/hangers-on would be outraged.

That said, as for the Flyers, Giroux should still have 5-6 good years (maybe not Hart level, but All-Star level) years and I am comfortable with him being the captain as the younger guys start coming in to make them more competitive again.
- jmatchett383

The Oilers are the poster child of having older experienced players with the young guns! Too many firsts & not enough experience!

Moving G might not be a bad idea for the Fly Guys but Hextal should see how this offseason works out. Say they either land Matthews or put their new found cap space to really good use. All of a sudden their rebuild is excelerated. G might be past his prime by the time they're contending, but as long as he's still effective and a fringe 1st liner at least by the time they're making a cup push, you'd rather have Claude Giroux than not have Claud Giroux.
- Victoro311

The problem with the Flyers moving Giroux is that there really isn't a better solution. He's still a legit 1C and a top PP player who also plays on the second PK unit, and should be for 3-4 years minimum. Travis Konecny is the only player in the system who could replace him, and he's still 2 years away from turning pro, no way he'd be ready for at least 4-5 years to take up that mantle. Yes, if they can land Matthews or somehow land a legit 1C in a trade, then it becomes more realistic in a few years. But he's the heart of the team and the fan base loves him (much more than Mike Richards was loved) so I don't see it happening any time soon.

For the Penguins, I would consider moving Malkin if the team misses the playoffs/gets bounced in the first, assuming they are healthy come playoff time. His talent in undeniable when he wants it to be, but the mix seems to be just a bit off.

Moving G might not be a bad idea for the Fly Guys but Hextal should see how this offseason works out. Say they either land Matthews or put their new found cap space to really good use. All of a sudden their rebuild is excelerated. G might be past his prime by the time they're contending, but as long as he's still effective and a fringe 1st liner at least by the time they're making a cup push, you'd rather have Claude Giroux than not have Claud Giroux.
- Victoro311

I really dont think trading giroux is a nessacy thing at this point. Being a serious threat,projected, in two two three years I think he would be a large part in that. I could be wrong but I dont think the wheels fall off by that time for him. However, he still needs a legit lw on his line and jake isnt made for the left side even though he has looked ok in that role. Our list should be a legit 2c center and at least 1 top line lw. our third line is a great 4th line. So that tells you our bottom 6. that needs to be addressed as well but we have konecky coming up and should fit nicely there. Our d...well....besides ghost..

The problem with the Flyers moving Giroux is that there really isn't a better solution. He's still a legit 1C and a top PP player who also plays on the second PK unit, and should be for 3-4 years minimum. Travis Konecny is the only player in the system who could replace him, and he's still 2 years away from turning pro, no way he'd be ready for at least 4-5 years to take up that mantle. Yes, if they can land Matthews or somehow land a legit 1C in a trade, then it becomes more realistic in a few years. But he's the heart of the team and the fan base loves him (much more than Mike Richards was loved) so I don't see it happening any time soon.

For the Penguins, I would consider moving Malkin if the team misses the playoffs/gets bounced in the first, assuming they are healthy come playoff time. His talent in undeniable when he wants it to be, but the mix seems to be just a bit off.
- jmatchett383

Moving any one of 87/71/58 moves the team further from it's stated short term objective. Best return will always be futures. Move one and they might as well go for a total rebuild. Malkin and Neal were a great duo. Now he has zero wingers that fit with him.

I really dont think trading giroux is a nessacy thing at this point. Being a serious threat,projected, in two two three years I think he would be a large part in that. I could be wrong but I dont think the wheels fall off by that time for him. However, he still needs a legit lw on his line and jake isnt made for the left side even though he has looked ok in that role. Our list should be a legit 2c center and at least 1 top line lw. our third line is a great 4th line. So that tells you our bottom 6. that needs to be addressed as well but we have konecky coming up and should fit nicely there. Our d...well....besides ghost..
- jmdodgeser4

It's equivalent to trading 71/87 and this board was ready to burn when anyone suggested trading Geno. And I don't feel we have really been contenders the past 2 seasons and it's looking that way again. We will still spend assets we don't really have to try and address needs for a run.

It's equivalent to trading 71/87 and this board was ready to burn when anyone suggested trading Geno. And I don't feel we have really been contenders the past 2 seasons and it's looking that way again. We will still spend assets we don't really have to try and address needs for a run.
- dbell646

Last season in the first half the Pens were contenders. One of the best teams in the league before injuries. This season however I would agree that at no point have they looked like contenders. And this is the first season in a long time that I can say that. Things can change quickly however, and in their case it better or they should seriously consider being sellers for once.

I really dont think trading giroux is a nessacy thing at this point. Being a serious threat,projected, in two two three years I think he would be a large part in that. I could be wrong but I dont think the wheels fall off by that time for him. However, he still needs a legit lw on his line and jake isnt made for the left side even though he has looked ok in that role. Our list should be a legit 2c center and at least 1 top line lw. our third line is a great 4th line. So that tells you our bottom 6. that needs to be addressed as well but we have konecky coming up and should fit nicely there. Our d...well....besides ghost..
- jmdodgeser4

That's why I really hope you don't land Matthews. Cooter would be an elite shut down defenseman in a third line role. Basically Jordan Staal with less offensive prowess but maybe even better defensively. If Matthews is actually Malkin caliber, Giroux, a clear cut 1st liner, would instantly become one of the best 2Cs in the league probably only rivaled my Malkin himself. We can speak from experience: the Three Center Model is pretty (frank)ing awesome

It's equivalent to trading 71/87 and this board was ready to burn when anyone suggested trading Geno. And I don't feel we have really been contenders the past 2 seasons and it's looking that way again. We will still spend assets we don't really have to try and address needs for a run.
- dbell646

I don't believe you trade players like that unless the future is really bleak. I don't feel that way about the Pens or the Flyers. You still have to entertain the fans.

I also don't believe Ruth will trade much of the future at the TDL for rentals (maybe that extra 2nd). I could see a deal with Pouliot leaving for a similar piece.

That's why I really hope you don't land Matthews. Cooter would be an elite shut down defenseman in a third line role. Basically Jordan Staal with less offensive prowess but maybe even better defensively. If Matthews is actually Malkin caliber, Giroux, a clear cut 1st liner, would instantly become one of the best 2Cs in the league probably only rivaled my Malkin himself. We can speak from experience: the Three Center Model is pretty (frank)ing awesome
- Victoro311

yes!!!I have been saying that and I keep getting bashed. Coots is an amazing 3c but really a 2c he is not. But with his recent run on getting points every game laely is adding to the 2c argument. I dont buy it and I want mathews

Last season in the first half the Pens were contenders. One of the best teams in the league before injuries. This season however I would agree that at no point have they looked like contenders. And this is the first season in a long time that I can say that. Things can change quickly however, and in their case it better or they should seriously consider being sellers for once.
- jfkst1

Well for a while they were regular season contenders and then no shows in the playoffs. I dont think much has changed other than players just getting older. I dont see a trade they can make that pushes them this year, I dont see FA helping either. Lots of big names that will be $$$$. JR and the sale situation make it difficult to do anything of significance. But I would rather see the Pens do something drastic this off season to set up the next 5 years. The game of plug and play to see who fits with 87/71 has gotten old.

Something else to think about, Williams and Oshie each have more goals than Kessel and their combined cap hit is just a bit more than Kessel.

Well for a while they were regular season contenders and then no shows in the playoffs. I dont think much has changed other than players just getting older. I dont see a trade they can make that pushes them this year, I dont see FA helping either. Lots of big names that will be $$$$. JR and the sale situation make it difficult to do anything of significance. But I would rather see the Pens do something drastic this off season to set up the next 5 years. The game of plug and play to see who fits with 87/71 has gotten old.

Something else to think about, Williams and Oshie each have more goals than Kessel and their combined cap hit is just a bit more than Kessel.
- sammy87

Well, Kessel was a horrible pick up for the pens. He would be a horrible pick up for anybody to be honest. Im not sure what it is but he just rubs me the wrong way.

Well, Kessel was a horrible pick up for the pens. He would be a horrible pick up for anybody to be honest. Im not sure what it is but he just rubs me the wrong way.
- jmdodgeser4

This board lost their minds and had him pegged at 50goals this year. He's been pretty bad this year. When everyone in TOR was happy to see him go, and Babcocks first order was to ship him out, you gotta wonder....

Well for a while they were regular season contenders and then no shows in the playoffs. I dont think much has changed other than players just getting older. I dont see a trade they can make that pushes them this year, I dont see FA helping either. Lots of big names that will be $$$$. JR and the sale situation make it difficult to do anything of significance. But I would rather see the Pens do something drastic this off season to set up the next 5 years. The game of plug and play to see who fits with 87/71 has gotten old.

Something else to think about, Williams and Oshie each have more goals than Kessel and their combined cap hit is just a bit more than Kessel.
- sammy87

Caps are 2nd in scoring and Pens are 26th. Williams and Oshie would be 30 point players if they were on the Pens.
Plenty of lower seeds that don't look good in the regular season win SCs.

Caps are 2nd in scoring and Pens are 26th. Williams and Oshie would be 30 point players if they were on the Pens.
Plenty of lower seeds that don't look good in the regular season win SCs.
- jfkst1

Plenty of top seeds fall out as well. The point is that for the price of Kessel, the Caps got 2 players that contribute at the same pace and they didn't cost hardly anything to acquire. Pens had multiple holes on the roster but went big on Kessel, neglecting the rest of the roster the team still sucks and they lost a F prospect, D prospect, 1st rounder. Terrible management.

Caps are 2nd in scoring and Pens are 26th. Williams and Oshie would be 30 point players if they were on the Pens.
Plenty of lower seeds that don't look good in the regular season win SCs.
- jfkst1

This. That's what I keep saying. This is a team issue, not an individual player issue. Oshie would be even worse than Kessel if he was on this team. Johnston drained our players of every ounce of confidence and swag they had, which in some cases wasn't much. Malkin wasn't very effected, and Crosby, Letang, Maatta, and Hornqvist seem to have gotten/are getting over it. Hopefully it's contagious and Perron and Kessel start heating up soon.

Plenty of top seeds fall out as well. The point is that for the price of Kessel, the Caps got 2 players that contribute at the same pace and they didn't cost hardly anything to acquire. Pens had multiple holes on the roster but went big on Kessel, neglecting the rest of the roster the team still sucks and they lost a F prospect, D prospect, 1st rounder. Terrible management.
- sammy87

Our forward depth was as deep as it ever was coming into the season.

Ugh, why didn't we draft Datsyuk or Zetterburg!!! Terrible management.

This. That's what I keep saying. This is a team issue, not an individual player issue. Oshie would be even worse than Kessel if he was on this team. Johnston drained our players of every ounce of confidence and swag they had, which in some cases wasn't much. Malkin wasn't very effected, and Crosby, Letang, Maatta, and Hornqvist seem to have gotten/are getting over it. Hopefully it's contagious and Perron and Kessel start heating up soon.
- Victoro311

I've lost all faith in Perron and Kuni. Sid is setting them up like crazy and they shank almost every chance. You could do a blooper video on some of Kuni's shots. Seems like Perron needs a couple of minutes to release a shot.

Plenty of top seeds fall out as well. The point is that for the price of Kessel, the Caps got 2 players that contribute at the same pace and they didn't cost hardly anything to acquire. Pens had multiple holes on the roster but went big on Kessel, neglecting the rest of the roster the team still sucks and they lost a F prospect, D prospect, 1st rounder. Terrible management.
- sammy87

What are our holes besides top 6 scoring right now? The defense is fine now. It turns out that we didn't need to do anything more than swap out Scuderi for Daley which I don't think anyone called. We just need to wait for our boys to break out of their slumps now. If you want to argue that time isn't on our side that's fine, but our biggest issue was Johnston preforming a visectsmy on the team for the first quarter of the season. And as is the case a lot of the times, it hasn't been smooth trying to reverse it. Rutherford could have gotten Alex (frank)ing Oveckin and it wouldn't have helped much.

I don't believe you trade players like that unless the future is really bleak. I don't feel that way about the Pens or the Flyers. You still have to entertain the fans.

I also don't believe Ruth will trade much of the future at the TDL for rentals (maybe that extra 2nd). I could see a deal with Pouliot leaving for a similar piece.
- madmike71

I feel the future here is somewhat bleak. Who do we have in the farm system absent Murray and maybe Pouliot that is of true NHL caliber. We have traded away a lot of possible future for rentals. I somewhat expect the same at this deadline too.

This. That's what I keep saying. This is a team issue, not an individual player issue. Oshie would be even worse than Kessel if he was on this team. Johnston drained our players of every ounce of confidence and swag they had, which in some cases wasn't much. Malkin wasn't very effected, and Crosby, Letang, Maatta, and Hornqvist seem to have gotten/are getting over it. Hopefully it's contagious and Perron and Kessel start heating up soon.
- Victoro311

If thats the case then you point fingers at Crosby and Malkin, its their team they are the leaders, they set the attitude. I dont see a coach having that much affect on the locker room unless its someone like Torts. Players want to win regardless.

I've lost all faith in Perron and Kuni. Sid is setting them up like crazy and they shank almost every chance. You could do a blooper video on some of Kuni's shots. Seems like Perron needs a couple of minutes to release a shot.
- madmike71

Well Kunitz is simply just not a top 6 player anymore. There is no reason for him to be on the top line. Perron is freaking snake bitten. I know he has the ability but he's just gripping his stick way too tight. Having Kunitz around is probably only adding to the frustration. If I'm Sullivan, I'm putting Hornqvist with Perron and Crosby in order to surround Perron with two players that heating up. In the absence of a better option id bump Kunitz down to Malkin's line and give him the sole mandate of digging out pucks for Malkin and Kessel