Different yes, but I cant recall a time where waiting has ended up making a deal better. I think Walsh knows that too, history shows that trade demands hurt the team dealing, especially if they are public. Dany Heatley is another that comes to mind
- WhiteLie

Typically any player that is traded at Drouin's age with his level of experience and acumen ends up being a steal when they are traded this early. See Tyler Seguin. For the most part, I'd say highly touted prospects on ELCs usually increase in value with more NHL experience.

I'm saying you don't let Drouin allow you to accept a diminished return or allow him to undermine your integrity.

You win both ways by hard-balling him and saying get your (frank)ing ass on the ice and prove your worth or sit at home until 2022 and don't get paid.

Most likely scenario is Drouin will begin to play again and his value should increase if he is the player we think he is. At that point you can sell him to the highest bidder or wait if you think his value will increase more.

Worst case scenario Drouin decides to sit at home and pout for the next 6 years or whatever. You lose out on maybe a decent prospect that you could have gotten in return for Drouin now but at least you maintain the integrity of your clubs management. Ultimately in this case it is Drouin who suffers the most, and that should be obvious to him which is why I said the most likely scenario is that he begins playing again and eventually proves his worth.
- RonPielep

I dont necessarily agree that you "win" both ways. Moral victory for holding your stance? Sure. But when you're trying to win the Cup and you have an asset there you can use to make your team better now and in the future my opinion is that you cut your losses on someone that plans to stay home (thats assuming he wont start playing again, some end up playing after a few weeks) and get something you can work with going forward

I get it and Cooper is correct that there have been times he was "punishing" Drouin for not doing what needed to be done. But the premise still exists that he was outplayed (and replaced) by other players which is why he isn't/wasn't with the Bolts. When Drouin was hurt Marchessault (who also is not waiver exempt and thus at risk to losing for nothing if sent to Cuse) played his way into the lineup. Namestnikov (also a 1st round pick), who before this year had played a similar role to what Drouin has, is now playing on the 1st line with Stamkos and Palat.

Somehow Drouin is supposed to be given a spot while other players weren't?
- uf1910

Yes contracts and performance has blocked his path, but clearly he is good enough to play at the NHL level and wants to go somewhere where he will have that opportunity. I cant blame him nor do I fault the Lightning for managing their contracts to hold onto their assets

Until people learn that not everything is representative of its most extreme iteration, it will continue to be very difficult to have nuanced discussions on the internet.
- James_Tanner

You commented earlier that owners were exploiting the players but the facts don't really support your beliefs. There wouldn't have been a lockout if the owners were exploiting their players and making a fortune. No need for an escrow clause in CBA if owners are making a healthy profit.

Your posts during the Canadian election lead me to believe your socialist leanings. If I am incorrect, I apologize for any offence.

Typically any player that is traded at Drouin's age with his level of experience and acumen ends up being a steal when they are traded this early. See Tyler Seguin. For the most part, I'd say highly touted prospects on ELCs usually increase in value with more NHL experience.
- RonPielep

I agree, I think he could be a Seguin situation, likely why Steve Y doesn't want to move him for a small return. But like you say, if he doesnt get more NHL experience then he will be getting a smaller return

Maybe you don't agree - you don't seem very mature. But maybe now you understand why all your previous points were irrelevant? I do not care about the law, or contracts or whatever, in the context of this situation.

The entire article is about how its disgusting that fans shame a perfectly fine 20 year old kid without knowing all the details (even I didn't know they sent him down two games before he'd be a UFA one year ealier, which makes it worse) and then suggest that a grown man essentially say "I know you are, but what am I" and ruin his career.

It makes me think society is sick. And again, you couldn't have missed my point any further if you were doing it on purpose, which, come to think of it does explain why you can spell but are so obtuse.
- James_Tanner

Once again James, all you have proven is you have no clue about asset management and are just trying to appeal to some sentimental argument about Drouin's feelings which is entirely irrelevant to this situation. What is relevant to this situation and what you seem to be missing entirely is that this is about business management and Yzerman is looking out for the best interest of his club (which is his job). Wake up and take a sniff of reality man.

Also, thanks for commenting on my maturity at the start of your last 4 of 5 responses. We get it James, you think that people who disagree with your nonsense are childish. Get over it and bring an actual argument to the table or just shut up already.

Yes contracts and performance has blocked his path, but clearly he is good enough to play at the NHL level and wants to go somewhere where he will have that opportunity. I cant blame him nor do I fault the Lightning for managing their contracts to hold onto their assets
- WhiteLie

And if you, James, or anyone else can find where Yzerman, Vinik, or anyone else has ever said he isn't good enough for the NHL I will be shocked. He was outplayed and replaced by other players.

Yzerman was working towards facilitating that desire to move on. All this decision did was make that process harder and quite possibly longer.

I dont necessarily agree that you "win" both ways. Moral victory for holding your stance? Sure. But when you're trying to win the Cup and you have an asset there you can use to make your team better now and in the future my opinion is that you cut your losses on someone that plans to stay home (thats assuming he wont start playing again, some end up playing after a few weeks) and get something you can work with going forward
- WhiteLie

I get what you mean but in this sense I am valuing the long term success of the club as opposed to immediate success (i.e., a cup this season) and I think that is more in line with Yzerman's philosophy as a GM as well.

I think most people would agree that if Drouin was a stock right now then you would be selling low on him, which is not in the best interest of the club's future. But if they get offered what they think is a fair deal then I think they take it (i.e., if they think the difference between the offer and a potential future offer is small they do it now just to end the fiasco). I'm just saying Yzerman doesn't have to do anything and to suggest that he does makes him seem like he is in a position of weakness which is bad for the long-term player development of this club.

Once again James, all you have proven is you have no clue about asset management and are just trying to appeal to some sentimental argument about Drouin's feelings which is entirely irrelevant to this situation. What is relevant to this situation and what you seem to be missing entirely is that this is about business management and Yzerman is looking out for the best interest of his club (which is his job). Wake up and take a sniff of reality man.

Also, thanks for commenting on my maturity at the start of your last 4 of 5 responses. We get it James, you think that people who disagree with your nonsense are childish. Get over it and bring an actual argument to the table or just shut up already.
- RonPielep

While arguing for the high character of Drouin while conveniently avoiding the "Drouin was outplayed" aspect of why he was sent down and/or not playing with Tampa. The same high character that other high character players would be honest with themselves and say "damn I need to get better", but no. Drouin's high character means the rich owner is a jerk and the high-character Drouin who can do no wrong is right to demand an immediate trade while not showing up to do his job, the same job they were paying his high character ass to do.

Reminds me a bit of the D.Hamilton affair last summer.

While arguing for the high character of Drouin while conveniently avoiding the "Drouin was outplayed" aspect of why he was sent down and/or not playing with Tampa. The same high character that other high character players would be honest with themselves and say "damn I need to get better", but no. Drouin's high character means the rich owner is a jerk and the high-character Drouin who can do no wrong is right to demand an immediate trade while not showing up to do his job, the same job they were paying his high character ass to do.
- uf1910

Yeah, I guess his argument is just waaayy over my immature head...

And if you, James, or anyone else can find where Yzerman, Vinik, or anyone else has ever said he isn't good enough for the NHL I will be shocked. He was outplayed and replaced by other players.

Yzerman was working towards facilitating that desire to move on. All this decision did was make that process harder and quite possibly longer.
- uf1910

If nothing else, I would think that the GMs from many contending teams or teams with good forward depth may think twice on trading for Drouin if they felt it possible that he wouldn't accept a possible reassignment to the AHL.

edit: I guess a (presumably) bad team could guarantee him a spot on the roster, but why would you turn a 2 way ELC into essentially a 1 way for a guy that has proven very little at the NHL level at this point?

My whole article was based on this kind of childish behavior being condoned by adults being disgusting. The idea that people make a moral argument and then suggest Yzerman act like he's five is crazy/sad. After all your ill-advised condescending comments, thank you so much for finally making my point for me.
- James_Tanner

Why can't Drouin act like an adult and then Yzerman has no reason to. End of story.

Why can't Drouin act like an adult and then Yzerman has no reason to. End of story.
- NugentHallberle

The behavior he is referring to as being childish is called professional/business integrity. Something Tanner will never understand as evident by my location...

Yeah, I guess his argument is just waaayy over my immature head...
- RonPielep

Nice location

Laws and contracts be damned, you know since high character people consistently break laws and contracts

If nothing else, I would think that the GMs from many contending teams or teams with good forward depth may think twice on trading for Drouin if they felt it possible that he wouldn't accept a possible reassignment to the AHL.

edit: I guess a (presumably) bad team could guarantee him a spot on the roster, but why would you turn a 2 way ELC into essentially a 1 way for a guy that has proven very little at the NHL level at this point?
- Davewn

Yup. Drouin and Walsh just made it more difficult for Yzerman to grant their trade wish. Yzerman even alluded to this in his presser today.

But he doesn't like what's happening. He's being proactive and taking initiative to try and put himself in a better career position.

The right thing to for Drouin to do is whatever he thinks his best for him to get the things that he wants most. He obviously feels not playing is a better solution for him personally than playing in the ahl. I'm not sure why this is so offensive.

I'm not entirely sure why so many seem to think they know what is best for Drouin.
- Tumbleweed

If he wants to put himself in a better career position why do it like this? Wouldn't it make more sense for him to put in the hardwork, light up the AHL, make it painfully obvious to all GMs that he belongs in the big league, and force a trade or call-up? It's not like he's been toiling in the minors for five years or something.

Drouin can solve this problem with his play, but instead is either letting or being manipulated into having his agent take control.

I think you're confused. Drouin did not have to sign (frank) all with the NHL and he did not have to participate in the draft. Then he would have been free to go play wherever he felt like.
- RonPielep

Wrong, you don't choose to participate. You are eligible due to your age.
After being drafted he had no choice but to Play for Tampa or sit out for 4 years if he wanted to play in the NHL.

Wrong, you don't choose to participate. You are eligible due to your age.
After being drafted he had no choice but to Play for Tampa or sit out for 4 years if he wanted to play in the NHL.
- Pres.cup

Yes, my bad, he didn't choose to be drafted, they could draft him regardless.

But your initial point is still false and irrelevant. Once he was drafted by the NHL he didn't relinquish his rights to go play in other leagues. He could have played in the KHL if he wanted to but he chose to sign his ELC which then prevents him from playing elsewhere (essentially like signing a non-compete).

And it was his choice to do so.

If he wants to put himself in a better career position why do it like this? Wouldn't it make more sense for him to put in the hardwork, light up the AHL, make it painfully obvious to all GMs that he belongs in the big league, and force a trade or call-up? It's not like he's been toiling in the minors for five years or something.

Drouin can solve this problem with his play, but instead is either letting or being manipulated into having his agent take control.
- Tweek

i don't disagree with you.

that's obviously not what he thinks. it's his opinion, his career. he's the one that needs to live and learn from his own decisions.

I usually have a hard time agreeing with your nauseous love affair of the Oilers but in this case I agree but you missed a few important things:

1/ Drouin showed enough to play in the NHL that first year, but the Lightning decided to send him back to the OHL, a league he already dominated & had nothing more to prove or develop in. He should have been able to start in the AHL, where he would be able to truly develop in a "Professional league" but, heaven forbid, the CHL agreement didn't allow it. So all his peers were able to stay up past that 10 game magic number & the 1st year of their ELC's started to tick. Tampa thought they would be cute & send him back to junior where the ELC didn't start. He got proper fcked on that one.

2/Now, his peers are all about to cash in on some serious $$$ on their 2nd contracts, like Jones, Mckinnon, Barkov, Monny & here is Drouin, not only having to wait another year before he could get a better payday, but they have him dumped down making AHL money. It's a business & I totally understand why Drouin wants a trade. If these NHL teams are going to screw players around to string out these ELC's as long as possible, then trade them.

If I recall, Turris was labelled a trouble making entitled snot com parables Drouin is getting painted with. I sure hope the Flames can pull off a deal to get this kid, I would love nothing better than to see Drouin play with Bennett or Monahan on one of the top 2 lines. Ask Ottawa fans if they regret acquiring the entitle snot Turris who is now their #1 centre.

Yes, my bad, he didn't choose to be drafted, they could draft him regardless.

But your initial point is still false and irrelevant. Once he was drafted by the NHL he didn't relinquish his rights to go play in other leagues. He could have played in the KHL if he wanted to but he chose to sign his ELC which then prevents him from playing elsewhere (essentially like signing a non-compete).

And it was his choice to do so.
- RonPielep

It's all a trade-off. Hard to forego the potential big RFA $$ as a young top 5 pick, I would think. He could have opted to go the NCAA route as well, gotten an education and become a free agent after 4 years, ala Hayes/Schultz/Reilly- maybe more will go this route in the future.

While arguing for the high character of Drouin while conveniently avoiding the "Drouin was outplayed" aspect of why he was sent down and/or not playing with Tampa. The same high character that other high character players would be honest with themselves and say "damn I need to get better", but no. Drouin's high character means the rich owner is a jerk and the high-character Drouin who can do no wrong is right to demand an immediate trade while not showing up to do his job, the same job they were paying his high character ass to do.
- uf1910

not that i condone what drouin is doing, but most players drafted in the top 4 are given an nhl roster spot within 2 years of being drafted. Granted, guys like that typically play on bad teams. But I understand if drouin looks around the league and is pissed at being the odd man out.

drouin's doing what he thinks is in his best interest, yzerman should do the same.

I'm saying you don't let Drouin allow you to accept a diminished return or allow him to undermine your integrity.

You win both ways by hard-balling him and saying get your (frank)ing ass on the ice and prove your worth or sit at home until 2022 and don't get paid.

Most likely scenario is Drouin will begin to play again and his value should increase if he is the player we think he is. At that point you can sell him to the highest bidder or wait if you think his value will increase more.

Worst case scenario Drouin decides to sit at home and pout for the next 6 years or whatever. You lose out on maybe a decent prospect that you could have gotten in return for Drouin now but at least you maintain the integrity of your clubs management. Ultimately in this case it is Drouin who suffers the most, and that should be obvious to him which is why I said the most likely scenario is that he begins playing again and eventually proves his worth.
- RonPielep

Maloney played hardball with turris a few years ago in a similar sitiution. he called turris' bluff after a holdout and ended up signing him to a deal.

maloney didn't exactly get a higher return he was probably hoping for in the end.

i don't think letting a potential asset sit for 6 years would be a smart decision. yzerman has a team of veterans and has hopefully developed a culture of needing to earn your roster spot. One player shouldn't upset that.

I usually have a hard time agreeing with your nauseous love affair of the Oilers but in this case I agree but you missed a few important things:

1/ Drouin showed enough to play in the NHL that first year, but the Lightning decided to send him back to the OHL, a league he already dominated & had nothing more to prove or develop in. He should have been able to start in the AHL, where he would be able to truly develop in a "Professional league" but, heaven forbid, the CHL agreement didn't allow it. So all his peers were able to stay up past that 10 game magic number & the 1st year of their ELC's started to tick. Tampa thought they would be cute & send him back to junior where the ELC didn't start. He got proper fcked on that one.

2/Now, his peers are all about to cash in on some serious $$$ on their 2nd contracts, like Jones, Mckinnon, Barkov, Monny & here is Drouin, not only having to wait another year before he could get a better payday, but they have him dumped down making AHL money. It's a business & I totally understand why Drouin wants a trade. If these NHL teams are going to screw players around to string out these ELC's as long as possible, then trade them.

If I recall, Turris was labelled a trouble making entitled snot com parables Drouin is getting painted with. I sure hope the Flames can pull off a deal to get this kid, I would love nothing better than to see Drouin play with Bennett or Monahan on one of the top 2 lines. Ask Ottawa fans if they regret acquiring the entitle snot Turris who is now their #1 centre.
- Kevin R

Wasn't old enough to play in AHL that season. It was NHL or juniors