Hang on. You misunderstood what I said because I didn't offer you an ideal package like your Steve Yzermen?
- SuperSchennBros

Okay, clearly I misunderstood and that you really have a package that Tampa will find irresistible.

It might not be but last year we were calling Voracek elite. I will say that I would be shocked if Stamkos was traded for another super star in the league. I think Stamkos hates being in Tampa and he'll be doing the Martin St Louis dance on his way out. So why isn't Voracek to start talks not realistic?
- SuperSchennBros

Voracek, with his massive of massive slumps, has 34 points in 46 games.

Stamkos, demigod, has 37 points in 48 games.

Last year the non elite Jake had 81 points in 82 games. The elite Stamkos had 72 points in 82 games.

if he makes it to free agency, some team is going to vastly overpay
- funmaster18

That team is Toronto. Watch how fast they dump players at the deadline. Everyone goes.

It might not be but last year we were calling Voracek elite. I will say that I would be shocked if Stamkos was traded for another super star in the league. I think Stamkos hates being in Tampa and he'll be doing the Martin St Louis dance on his way out. So why isn't Voracek to start talks not realistic?
- SuperSchennBros

I am in the minority and would try to get him in FA. I know people want to draft a develop until later and then add a FA when closer to contender but Stamkos is young and can be part of the build. Also looking to the future there aren't great options in FA.

I would move Simmonds and Read. To clear more cap and try to fill spots with some ELC players.

It's rare for a player like Stamoks to hit FA and I think it will only become more rare in the future with the way the cap and contracts are.

Voracek, with his massive of massive slumps, has 34 points in 46 games.

Stamkos, demi-Pavelski, has 37 points in 48 games.
- Mononoke

FTFY

That team is Toronto. Watch how fast they dump players at the deadline. Everyone goes.
- mayorofangrytown

I read something recently that there was going to be a massive sell off in TO. Makes sense. They aren't good, Babcock has seen everyone for majority of a season, they brought in uncle lou.

I might take Stamkos 1 for 1, same cost but not for what it'd take to trade THEN sign him.
- Mononoke

Dear god this.

I don't know. It's tough. If I can keep Giroux, then I might throw enough at him to get him and have a potent 1-2 punch down the middle with couturier in a much better 3rd line role. At the same time, this team is a couple years out from being really competitive as it stands, so I don't know if I want to pay the price it would take knowing we are trying to replenish the team, not take away. If they got Stamkos, the team would be taking a drastic turn in direction, IMO. If this was a year or two from now, I wouldn't be shocked at all at them going after him. Then again, I guess I wouldn't be shocked if they did it now either.
- funmaster18

I like this response. You're hearing me out, instead of bashing without thinking. We have the defensive prospects in Morin, Gost and Samheim. Keep in mind that I'm not giving up Provorov. We have our draft picks. Giroux, Voracek, Couturier and Simmonds are all interesting and we're not giving up all of them. You would be getting Steven Stankos in return who is 26 in two weeks from now, where as Giroux turned 28 two weeks ago.

FTFY
- johndewar

Age is a factor, but if they were the same age, right now, I'd take Pavelski over Stamkos. How hot of a take is THAT? Better 2 way player, as good or better goal scorer.

Voracek, with his massive of massive slumps, has 34 points in 46 games.

Stamkos, demigod, has 37 points in 48 games.

Last year the non elite Jake had 81 points in 82 games. The elite Stamkos had 72 points in 82 games.
- Mononoke

Who does Stamkos play with and who does Voracek play with? If your really making an argument Voracek vs. Stankos, well good luck because scoring isn't an issue for only one of these guys.

Age is a factor, but if they were the same age, right now, I'd take Pavelski over Stamkos. How hot of a take is THAT? Better 2 way player, as good or better goal scorer.
- Mononoke

Wait. Who is a better than who here??

Okay, clearly I misunderstood and that you really have a package that Tampa will find irresistible.
- Scoob

I'm not in the business of offering packages. I'm saying the Flyers have things to give up if they chose to.

It might not be but last year we were calling Voracek elite. I will say that I would be shocked if Stamkos was traded for another super star in the league. I think Stamkos hates being in Tampa and he'll be doing the Martin St Louis dance on his way out. So why isn't Voracek to start talks not realistic?
- SuperSchennBros

unless a new contract comes along with that trade, the team trading for Stamkos is chancing giving up assets for a guy who walks away. Not sure what that does to his value.

I wouldn't trade Giroux straight up for Stamkos. yes Stamkos is 3 years younger but G is one of the best face off guys around and kills penalties. tjheir career totals favor Stamkos .991 ppg to .898 but over the last 4 years they favor G. I don't know, maybe I have G colored glasses but I like Giroux better in every area except goal scoring.

New pairs tonight:

Gostisbehere - Del Zotto
Gudas - Manning
Streit - Schultz

I am in the minority and would try to get him in FA. I know people want to draft a develop until later and then add a FA when closer to contender but Stamkos is young and can be part of the build. Also looking to the future there aren't great options in FA.

I would move Simmonds and Read. To clear more cap and try to fill spots with some ELC players.

It's rare for a player like Stamoks to hit FA and I think it will only become more rare in the future with the way the cap and contracts are.
- J35Bacher

Agree. With this said though, this isn't like signing Peter Forsberg or Jeremy Roenick at 30. You get Stamkos, he's spart of your fututre.

I am in the minority and would try to get him in FA. I know people want to draft a develop until later and then add a FA when closer to contender but Stamkos is young and can be part of the build. Also looking to the future there aren't great options in FA.

I would move Simmonds and Read. To clear more cap and try to fill spots with some ELC players.

It's rare for a player like Stamoks to hit FA and I think it will only become more rare in the future with the way the cap and contracts are.
- J35Bacher

you can't realistically have 3 guys making a 28 million and that is basically what you would have to have happen.

unless a new contract comes along with that trade, the team trading for Stamkos is chancing giving up assets for a guy who walks away. Not sure what that does to his value.

I wouldn't trade Giroux straight up for Stamkos. yes Stamkos is 3 years younger but G is one of the best face off guys around and kills penalties. tjheir career totals favor Stamkos .991 ppg to .898 but over the last 4 years they favor G. I don't know, maybe I have G colored glasses but I like Giroux better in every area except goal scoring.
- nastyflyergirl

I think this is all fair and it's all interpretation.

New pairs tonight:

Gostisbehere - Del Zotto
Gudas - Manning
Streit - Schultz
- J35Bacher

Ole! Ole! Ole!

That first pair is going to be waving red capes all night!

you can't realistically have 3 guys making a 28 million and that is basically what you would have to have happen.
- nastyflyergirl

Right and I would give up Voracek and sweeten the pot for Stamkos in a heartbeat.

New pairs tonight:

Gostisbehere - Del Zotto
Gudas - Manning
Streit - Schultz
- J35Bacher

Whatever

When was the last time a superstar made it to free agency? Marian Hossa?
- SuperSchennBros

Depends if you'd consider Paul Stastny, Ryan Suter, and/or Zach Parise superstars.

Agree. With this said though, this isn't like signing Peter Forsberg or Jeremy Roenick at 30. You get Stamkos, he's spart of your fututre.
- SuperSchennBros

The big thing to keep in mind, imo, is just because we are on a long road to build a team through the draft, doesn't mean it cannot be accelerated by trade or FA. It's all about what you have to give to get. The Flyers are quickly putting themselves in a position where they will have a lot of assets to move for help today. Not every one of these guys are going to make it to the Flyers. Some because of talent and some because they will be used for immediate upgrade. It's about balance. If they can get a guy like Stamkos or anyone else for that matter that helps today and tomorrow and still have talent left over in the prospect pool, then great!

New pairs tonight:

Gostisbehere - Del Zotto
Gudas - Manning
Streit - Schultz
- J35Bacher

is this really the 1st, 2nd and 3rd pairings or just who is playing with who?

I don't really care what the league thinks...the league thinks Torts is a good enough coach to get 3 jobs in 4 years or so. Public opinion doesn't matter to me. Frankly, if Giroux reached FA the same year as Stammer he'd have gotten more too. As much as Stammer? Maybe not but close.

You asked for reasons to not make that trade earlier. Here's mine: Stamkos is on a downward trend, and much of his "league value" is based on numbers from years ago. Now the league is on a downward trend too, but Stamkos is supposed to be the best of the best. His relative numbers are sinking even with scoring sinking. He is pretty much a better goal scoring Giroux minus the PK ability, faceoffs, and playoff performances. Is that worth $2.5 million a year more? It's pretty net neutral in my mind. I might take Stamkos 1 for 1, same cost but not for what it'd take to trade THEN sign him.

This season Stamkos has 6 more goals than G, and a lower PPG. Last season all you heard was how poor and invisible he performed for the Lightning in their playoffs. Doesn't sound like a good investment to me.
- Mononoke

Stamkos isn't on a downword trend. If he is, so is Giroux. Stamkos turns 26 in two weeks. Giroux turned 28 two weeks ago. I'll ask again who Stamkos plays with that puts him over the top that way Giroux does. This isn't to say Tampa isn't a good team but Giroux and Voracek are pretty much a duo. They very much struggled apart this year.

you can't realistically have 3 guys making a 28 million and that is basically what you would have to have happen.
- nastyflyergirl

Why can't I?

If you have a Provorov and Gostisbehere and say Morin on ELC. Laughton on ELC. Fill in some bottom 6 with cheaper players with some of your youth, you can make it work.

Also as years go one you the cap should move up each year. I would move mason since he is UFA after next season instead of giving him a raise. I would look to sign Neuvirth to a cheaper 3 year deal.

Umberger will be gone, Streit gone.

For me I can see how I would plan for it to work.